239 replies to this topic

[Wolfos31]

I'm not a founder, I started playing MWO around 2016/2017. I enjoy the game a lot and play off and on pretty regularly. But I come to the forums and I just see so much salt and whining. It's astounding. Subjects that seem to especially piss people off:

LRMs
- Why? Why do people care so much about this weapon system? It can be used effectively, but also has lots of counters. ECM, AMS, oh and hard cover, which nearly every map has ample amounts of.

NASCAR
- Yeah, this sucks when you're in a slow heavy or assault and your team leaves you behind. And then your team loses because the slow heavies got eaten up by the mob. But what stops this? Communication. "Hey guys I can only go 45 kph, let's counter rotate, or build a firing line." I've turned many a NASCAR on its head just talking to people.

PGI / Balance / Russ said something stupid
- I get it, we all care about this franchise and we've been part of it/playing with it since we were kids. But the way people blow up at every little change is incredible. Is MWO not fun to you? It is to me. If you don't like it why not email PGI directly? Or maybe the forums shoiuld have a poll system after every patch so that people can express what they like/don't like.

So I guess it's my turn to throw a stick on the fire. I'm salty about this community. I'm annoyed at the toxicity and anger thrown around between players and at the developers of this game. PGI isn't perfect, but if they didn't make a good game in your eyes, why are you playing it? Go play HBS' Battletech, or MW:LL, or start a MW4 server, or play Tabletop. MWO isn't your only option to experience this franchise.

Don't like LRMs? Learn to counter them. I hate when I'm 1 shot by Duel HG but I don't make a thread saying they should be nerfed. I learn to counter them by chasing Fafnirs in my Flea or popping and whittling them down in my Stormcrow.

In the end I just wish folks could be more constructive in this arena. Battletech is an awesome universe, and I feel lucky to be seeing it edge back into the light after the relative dearth of new content since ~2003.

/rant

[PAQUERA]

thanks a lot for this post. at least, some common sense in this forum

[Anjian]

The more people love a game or a franchise, the more they are critical about it.

I have been in enough different games and franchises to see this, and because you cannot improve unless you study from those who fault you.

[Mystere]

Wolfos31, on 04 April 2019 - 08:14 AM, said:

I'm not a founder, I started playing MWO around 2016/2017.

What were you doing then between 2012 and 2016/2017?

Wolfos31, on 04 April 2019 - 08:14 AM, said:

I enjoy the game a lot and play off and on pretty regularly. But I come to the forums and I just see so much salt and whining. It's astounding. Subjects that seem to especially piss people off:

I see it as typical of video games, especially online PVP ones.

Wolfos31, on 04 April 2019 - 08:14 AM, said:

But the way people blow up at every little change is incredible.

Again, I see this as typical.

[Wolfos31]

Anjian, on 04 April 2019 - 08:34 AM, said:

The more people love a game or a franchise, the more they are critical about it.

I have been in enough different games and franchises to see this, and because you cannot improve unless you study from those who fault you.

You're right, this isn't unique to MWO. But in general in my experience the smaller the community the more supportive and constructive it is. So I had hoped MWO's community would be a bit nicer. TBH in the actual game I rarely see players yelling at each other. But the forums are another story.

@Mystere I simply didn't know about MWO until I stumbled across it somewhere online. I think while looking into the possibility of MW5. I've played MW3 + MW4 dozens of times through. But generally I'm not a multiplayer gamer.

[Bud Crue]

Wolfos31, on 04 April 2019 - 08:48 AM, said:

You're right, this isn't unique to MWO. But in general in my experience the smaller the community the more supportive and constructive it is. So I had hoped MWO's community would be a bit nicer. TBH in the actual game I rarely see players yelling at each other. But the forums are another story.

@Mystere I simply didn't know about MWO until I stumbled across it somewhere online. I think while looking into the possibility of MW5. I've played MW3 + MW4 dozens of times through. But generally I'm not a multiplayer gamer.

A lot of the “yelling” or name calling that you see in the forums is between folks that have long term grudges regarding various issues (such as consistent IDF use of LRMs as a playstyle) or each other. Some of these folks have been doing it for years and don’t even play the game but they still linger to kvetch. Some of it is just blovation and petty needling (but often humorous). But mostly the forums and even reddit (HPG Outreach) are a very small subset of players that come here to blather on about the game they love, even if they don’t want to admit it; and more often than not they are constructive.

If you want constructive, go up to new player help, but even in general discussions a lot of folks can be very constructive depending on the topic.

[Wolfos31]

I have noticed a few of these consistent elements. Novakaine is a LRM advocate. Protoleius (spelling?) seems to be a DF advocate. And they can't seem to find any middle ground between them.

Is that common? Are their pilots who only pilot one class of mechs? Who only use one type of weapon? Who only use one faction? To me that'd get boring fast. I have IS & Clan, DF & IDF, and all classes of mechs. Though I always struggle with assaults.

[thievingmagpi]

Wolfos31, on 04 April 2019 - 08:14 AM, said:

LRMs
- Why? Why do people care so much about this weapon system? It can be used effectively, but also has lots of counters. ECM, AMS, oh and hard cover, which nearly every map has ample amounts of.

They are fundamentally bad for the game. Lock-on weapons do not belong in a shooter.

Because of their mechanics there's no *good* way to balance them. They're either annoyingly OP, which is terrible, or they're absolutely useless- which is terrible because of the religious following of their users.

Lock on weapons do not belong in an FPS.

Wolfos31, on 04 April 2019 - 08:14 AM, said:

NASCAR
- Yeah, this sucks when you're in a slow heavy or assault and your team leaves you behind. And then your team loses because the slow heavies got eaten up by the mob. But what stops this? Communication. "Hey guys I can only go 45 kph, let's counter rotate, or build a firing line." I've turned many a NASCAR on its head just talking to people.

Unfortunately this is rarely the case. I've hung up my mic because communication is useless. Pugs rarely respond to communication, and trying to get them to perform basic strategies like holding strong positions is like herding drunks. Time and time again players demonstrate their are wholly uninterested in teamplay, and even less interested in actually improving.

Pass.

Wolfos31, on 04 April 2019 - 08:14 AM, said:

PGI / Balance / Russ said something stupid
- I get it, we all care about this franchise and we've been part of it/playing with it since we were kids. But the way people blow up at every little change is incredible. Is MWO not fun to you? It is to me. If you don't like it why not email PGI directly?

People have been in literal direct contact with devs many times.

But what happens is wishes fall on deaf ears. There was an entire community driven balance suggestion, worked on and participated with dozens, if not hundreds of users.

Not a peep.

Full on in-person discussions.

Nothing.

The issue is the devs' utter lack of understanding of their own game and the manner in which they treat their own community members. Whole QOI issues, simple ones, going unaddressed for years. Minor tweaks and fixes sticking out like a sore thumb.

And then you get a post every few months saying "we listen to the community".

Wolfos31, on 04 April 2019 - 08:14 AM, said:

Or maybe the forums shoiuld have a poll system after every patch so that people can express what they like/don't like.

See above.

Wolfos31, on 04 April 2019 - 08:14 AM, said:

Don't like LRMs? Learn to counter them.

This is such a lazy and ignorant statement. The people making these suggestions do it knowing full well the mechanical and tactical counters to such platforms. This is not a case "I'm bad please help". Not in any way, shape or form. I'd enjoy watching you tell someone in the 95+ percentile they just need to "learn to counter x".

Wolfos31, on 04 April 2019 - 08:14 AM, said:

In the end I just wish folks could be more constructive in this arena.

There is plenty of constructive criticism, development, support and potential within certain parts of the community. PGI, not so much.

[K O Z A K]

Wolfos31, on 04 April 2019 - 09:09 AM, said:

I have noticed a few of these consistent elements. Novakaine is a LRM advocate. Protoleius (spelling?) seems to be a DF advocate. And they can't seem to find any middle ground between them.

Is that common? Are their pilots who only pilot one class of mechs? Who only use one type of weapon? Who only use one faction? To me that'd get boring fast. I have IS & Clan, DF & IDF, and all classes of mechs. Though I always struggle with assaults.

people are just expressing their opinion, there's nothing wrong or bad about that

some people believe when they see a very one sided opinion, they need to present a counter balancing point of view to ensure the one sided opinion is not the only one heard, and all the facts are on the table. That's how civilized people discuss contentious topics (until someone starts yelling the other side is a hate filled toxic bigot or w/e)

[Mystere]

Wolfos31, on 04 April 2019 - 08:48 AM, said:

@Mystere I simply didn't know about MWO until I stumbled across it somewhere online. I think while looking into the possibility of MW5. I've played MW3 + MW4 dozens of times through. But generally I'm not a multiplayer gamer.

The reason I asked is because I saw your join date as 19-June-2012 and as such I was curious why you only started playing several years later.

[Bud Crue]

Wolfos31, on 04 April 2019 - 09:09 AM, said:

And they can't seem to find any middle ground between them.

I think it is more of a folks just like to argue thing rather than some sort of absolutist no middle ground thing. Add in internet anonymity and some folks desire to mock/belittle/get under other’s skin, etc. and you get the feeling of “no middle ground’...or in this case contemptuous disdain. And yet both of these people probably run and enjoy all sorts of different play styles just like most of us.

Wolfos31, on 04 April 2019 - 09:09 AM, said:

Is that common? Are their pilots who only pilot one class of mechs? Who only use one type of weapon? Who only use one faction? To me that'd get boring fast. I have IS & Clan, DF & IDF, and all classes of mechs. Though I always struggle with assaults.

There is a lot of history tied up in those questions. But now, no. Most folks run a variety of builds and mechs, most of us play as mercenaries (even the loyalists are for the majority not in one faction very long). You would be foolish to try and play a single type of weapon as they get nerfed regularly and often left in a state of mediocrity for a very long time (waves forlornly at SPLs).

[Mystere]

thievingmagpi, on 04 April 2019 - 09:12 AM, said:

Lock-on weapons do not belong in a shooter.
...
Lock on weapons do not belong in an FPS.

If that is the case, games like DCS should never exist, right?

[thievingmagpi]

Mystere, on 04 April 2019 - 09:26 AM, said:

If that is the case, games like DCS should never exist, right?

DCS is not an FPS. Thanks.

[Flyby215]

Feels like politics to me. People have strong opinions on what should be done and why and arguing their positions often with anger.

*Attract more flies with honey than vinegar* seems not to apply in politics, and not on games' forums either.

Having said that...

Ban Piranhas! Ban Heavy Guass! Ban Mad Cat II! More Nascar! Yarr!

[dario03]

Wolfos31, on 04 April 2019 - 08:14 AM, said:

LRMs
- Why? Why do people care so much about this weapon system? It can be used effectively, but also has lots of counters. ECM, AMS, oh and hard cover, which nearly every map has ample amounts of.

Don't like LRMs? Learn to counter them. I hate when I'm 1 shot by Duel HG but I don't make a thread saying they should be nerfed. I learn to counter them by chasing Fafnirs in my Flea or popping and whittling them down in my Stormcrow.

Not all complaints about LRMs are because they killed somebody in game. Some just find them boring to play with and against. I don't hate LRMs and I think having one or two per team can be good, adds a bit more gameplay style compared to some other games. However when there are more it can get boring, and having games where both teams are half LRMboats can be very boring. This can be the case for anything in any game that gets complaints.

[Mystere]

thievingmagpi, on 04 April 2019 - 09:35 AM, said:

DCS is not an FPS. Thanks.

It is, among other things.

[thievingmagpi]

Mystere, on 04 April 2019 - 09:45 AM, said:

It is, among other things.

It isn't, but okay.

[Mystere]

thievingmagpi, on 04 April 2019 - 09:46 AM, said:

It isn't, but okay.

Yes it is, but okay.

[ToWcH]

Mystere, on 04 April 2019 - 09:45 AM, said:

It is, among other things.

I think you are playing on "Easy mode". DCS is Not an FPS game, how did your brain come up with this one?

[thievingmagpi]

Mystere, on 04 April 2019 - 09:58 AM, said:

Yes it is, but okay.

You must be mistaken, not surprised though.