28 replies to this topic

[FRAGTAST1C]

panzer1b, on 24 April 2019 - 04:25 PM, said:

TLDR, if you want to run UACs, be sure to mess around with what hardpoint you choose them to be in, how you bind your weapon groups to them, and what mechs they are on. Some mechs/setups let you spam doubletapped UAC 3-4 times without 1 jam, others will doublejam or worse on the 1st exposure, and sadly, with the way they jam, a doublejam in a bad spot is game over for you if you arent able to immediately disengage, and even if you do, oftentimes the damage you now arent able to deal can cost the match.

See, here's the thing. With the Jade Kite, I was running 1 UAC 10 in the LT, 2 UAC 5s in LA and 1 UAC5 in RA. The jamming wasn't as bad as the Black Widow that has 1 UAC 10 in LT and 2 UAC 5s in RT. The Black Widow has done nothing but make my UACs jam all the time. Seeing them fire like they're supposed 3 times in a row is like a miracle. The Black Widow doesn't even get anywhere close to 50% heat 'cause my weapons don't fire.

BTW, I've tested a coupe of mice to check out if it's a mouse issue and I can say that it is not.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Y'all don't forget to do a triple-360° at the beginning of the match and shoot the "lucky environment component" for each map (most prominent example being the lucky eyes in HPG, or the spire tower on Forest...?
Cause if you do forget, there's no wondering why you are constantly jammin'.

Edited by Aidan Crenshaw, 24 April 2019 - 09:31 PM.

[LordNothing]

i kind of think uacs need a mechanics redux because jam rate kills single gun builds (also why the uac20s are kind of bad despite a -1% jam chance buff over the other guns) and doesn't really effect boats that much.

jams should be caused by exceeding a threshold based on the amount of time you sustain max dps rather than because rngesus. guns would simply have their rof doubled. you can sustain max dps for maybe 2-3s before jam essentially making them true burst fire weapons rather than a crapshoot. tapping off rounds at less than the max dps will allow for longer bursts before jam or by firing short controlled bursts followed by leaving the guns idle for a time could avoid jams all together.

Edited by LordNothing, 25 April 2019 - 01:21 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

LordNothing, on 25 April 2019 - 01:17 AM, said:

jams should be caused by exceeding a threshold based on the amount of time you sustain max dps rather than because rngesus. guns would simply have their rof doubled. you can sustain max dps for maybe 2-3s before jam essentially making them true burst fire weapons rather than a crapshoot.

Yeah, kind of like the RACs. Sustained fire causes a jam. The UACs can have that same mechanic. Firing continuously for 3 times will cause a jam. So, you manage the bar and make it work without having to rely on RNG or just using them as regular ACs by firing once every cooldown.

[ShiverMeRivets]

FRAGTAST1C, on 24 April 2019 - 05:13 PM, said:

See, here's the thing. With the Jade Kite, I was running 1 UAC 10 in the LT, 2 UAC 5s in LA and 1 UAC5 in RA. The jamming wasn't as bad as the Black Widow that has 1 UAC 10 in LT and 2 UAC 5s in RT. The Black Widow has done nothing but make my UACs jam all the time. Seeing them fire like they're supposed 3 times in a row is like a miracle. The Black Widow doesn't even get anywhere close to 50% heat 'cause my weapons don't fire.

BTW, I've tested a coupe of mice to check out if it's a mouse issue and I can say that it is not.

I don’t think people understand how statistics work. It is not 16% jam chance per alpha - it is per weapon. This increases the chances of having SOME jamming significantly. In your setup (3 UACs) the chance of having at least one weapon jamming on the first double tap is just over 40%. The chance of double tapping again and not jamming is already down to 35%. So having something jammed out of the 3 is the norm and in continuous fire you should expect having 3 guns firing as a rare thing.

UACs are NOT a sustained dps weapon - they are all about front loading the damage before your dps plummets due to the inevitable jamming. You “cheat” statistics by starting engagements with all guns unjammed, which means that you should expect nearly doubled dps for the first few double taps. Then you jam - in theory, this will make your long-term dps similar to regular ACs, except that you already did your damage before the jamming and your enemy is probably dead or crippled by now. This frontloading is what makes UACs so stupidly OP - inspite of the jamming.
It is just a very bad game mechanic.

Regarding the Blackwidow, try it with 4AC5, torso 2ML and LFE (strip the arms). No jamming, consitent and reliable damage. AC5s are usually a bad ballistic (stats wise), but they work in this case.

[Eatit]

I did some testing in the training grounds with a King Crab and UAC2.

I fired 100 shots grouped all double tap using the number key on my keyboard rather than the mouse. It made it easier to write with my right hand and fire with my left. I wrote on graph paper the number of guns that jammed each time I fired. I waited for the jams to clear before I fired again.

Here is what the graphs looked like with 1 uac2 through 6 uac2.

1 x uac2 13 jams = 13%

00011000000000001001
00000000000000000000
10000001000100000001
00100010000001000000
00000010000000000010

2 x uac2 30 jams = 15%

10011110011000000101
00110011110101010000
00000001010000000010
00000000010000100100
10000110000000101001

3 x uac2 51 jams = 17%

00111011011111100111
11111000100101000001
01111010111000010000
10110001001001001011
10101100011100000110

4 x uac2 69 jams = 17.25%

11100110111012000000
2000101111101001111
10200111111111010101
11011001000011111011
11011121111100110111

5 x uac2 88 jams = 17.6%

10111020011020211011
12101111112011122021
01010020101111110211
10100122002101110022
12111121110111001011

6 x uac2 88 jams = 14.66%

11212200100200010201
02001020212001200002
22122000212022020020
01000202101211010022
20102000221221200200

During the firing of the 6x uac2 a weird pattern of jams showed up. On every double jam it was either the 1st and 4th gun or the 2nd and fifth gun or 3rd and 6th gun. No other double jam appeared.

The King Crab had 3 guns in each arm. The results showed that only the first gun in each arm would jam together or only the 2nd gun in each arm or only the 3rd gun in each arm.

That was weird as it should have been random. There is no mechanic that PGI has talked about that explains why when 2 guns jam in this configuration why it would be the same gun in each arm.

This needs further investigation. I'm going to conduct more tests and I encourage others to make similar tests.

[Eatit]

I should add that there were 0 double jams with the 2 uac2 and 3 uac2. Those were all in the same arm. I only started to see double jams at 4 uac2 where there was a gun in the other arm.

I'm going to try a mech with ballistics in each arm and each torso. Let's see if I can get a quad or triple jam.

[Jman5]

Eatit, on 25 April 2019 - 11:53 AM, said:

I should add that there were 0 double jams with the 2 uac2 and 3 uac2. Those were all in the same arm. I only started to see double jams at 4 uac2 where there was a gun in the other arm.

I'm going to try a mech with ballistics in each arm and each torso. Let's see if I can get a quad or triple jam.

The Night Gyr used to have a persistent double jam issue. I don't know if that was ever addressed.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Jman5, on 25 April 2019 - 05:07 PM, said:

The Night Gyr used to have a persistent double jam issue. I don't know if that was ever addressed.

I've ditched leveling the Black Widow half way through after completing the Jade Kite. I'm now at 63/91 with the Sun Spider Vanguard running 2 UAC 10s and an ERPPC. The Jade Kite and the Sun Spider are actually very, very tolerable compared to the jams on the Black Widow.It's just my rotten luck so far I guess.

ShiverMeRivets, on 25 April 2019 - 10:25 AM, said:

Regarding the Blackwidow, try it with 4AC5, torso 2ML and LFE (strip the arms). No jamming, consitent and reliable damage. AC5s are usually a bad ballistic (stats wise), but they work in this case.

Cool. I'll try that. I might eventually try something else entirely though 'cause IS UACs have a left a bad impression on me (looking at the NIghtstar 9S with dual UAC 20s and Black Widow with dual UAC5s and 1 UAC 10).