178 replies to this topic

[Tarogato]

Here's some pretty detailed stats from the QP leaderboard on site. https://docs.google....t#gid=792219336

I haven't updated this since last year though, and I plan on implementing all of this information on Jarls List at some point.

[Catnium]

VonBruinwald, on 24 May 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

WAIT! You run a 2X?!?! LIE'S!

I haven't seen another 2X in over a year!

You don't look hard enough than =D

Edited by Catnium, 26 May 2019 - 03:17 PM.

[Scurro]

VonBruinwald, on 25 May 2019 - 10:01 AM, said:

Sweet, thanks for the info.

Did you go through Jarl's or the MWO API? I always get an error trying to pull the database from Jarls:

{"status":501,"title":"Not Implemented","detail":"All pilot output is not supported at this time"}

I went ahead and enabled support for all player data via api. You should be able to access it now.

Edited by Scurro, 27 May 2019 - 06:30 PM.

[Xiphias]

Shredmetal, on 25 May 2019 - 08:38 AM, said:

I've been playing lights a fair bit this season. Sure feels OP when nobody bothers to shoot at you.

Anecdotal, but your stats for this season are across the board lower than your last two seasons where you played fewer lights.

[C E Dwyer]

It isn't the lights, ruining the game it's the stupid not supporting the slow,

[thievingmagpi]

C E Dwyer, on 28 May 2019 - 05:25 AM, said:

It isn't the lights, ruining the game it's the stupid not supporting the slow,

Ehhh. Usually those are one and the same.

Last night I turned to shoot some lights harassing assaults, but of course they had zero idea. I kept targeting them because I used the old MK I Eyeballs. Target. Fire some shots. 100 tonner doesn't even notice.

Then I hear over comms "oh hey there's a light on me...."

Yeah dude, not only did I spot it for you running at you across the map, but I continued to spot at as it ran around your legs- and you're only noticing now that you're missing a torso? Genius.


One of my favourite moves of course is "thanks guys for helping"... and then some supernova or direwolf dies.

Well dude, there are lots of tools with which you could have request support with if you're getting rushed. Command wheel. Team chat. Comms.

"Hey I'm in E6, a bit slow and there are 2 lights coming for me. E6 lights". Problem solved.

Edited by thievingmagpi, 28 May 2019 - 06:06 AM.

[Shredmetal]

Xiphias, on 28 May 2019 - 05:21 AM, said:

Anecdotal, but your stats for this season are across the board lower than your last two seasons where you played fewer lights.

Actually, it's not the lights pulling me down, I'm still on a 392 average match score with lights. I've just been playing worse with everything else, not going to make excuses for doing badly in an IV4 in a whole bunch of games...

[Grus]

How did I miss this one? Light imba? Lol

[GoodTry]

C E Dwyer, on 28 May 2019 - 05:25 AM, said:

It isn't the lights, ruining the game it's the stupid not supporting the slow,

I really don't like the assumption many people have that the team (and the light mechs in particular) should revolve around supporting the assaults.

If you're in an assault in solo queue, you have to support yourself. I play a Sleipnir at 50.4 kph, and I can usually keep up. You have to absolutely make it a priority to stay with the team. You can't stop to engage before the team stops. And if you can't keep up, either don't play mechs that slow, or don't expect the whole team to come back for you.

The "come save me" thing doesn't make a lot of sense either a lot of the time. Usually, the whole team is engaged when some assault off on his own starts calling for help. Usually he'll be 3 grid squares away, totally out of position, and half dead with three lights circling him. Most of the time, even if every single player on the team dropped everything and booked it straight to that location, giving their backs to the enemy, he'd be dead before we got there anyway.

Then he'd go and make a forum thread about how lights are OP...

[Weeny Machine]

Jman5, on 24 May 2019 - 04:03 PM, said:

While it's certainly true that we tend to be biased in these sorts of situations it doesn't mean that we are necessarily wrong. In the case of the Light mech for example we have plenty data from many seasons that show at all skill levels, the light mech class underperforms compared to the other three weight classes. If light mechs had balance issues it should show up somewhere in the data either in the matchscore or in the winrate. You would see metas emerging where everyone is gravitating toward highly mobile lights and mediums. Instead we see the opposite.

It's always the "light mechs OP" crowd that have never brought any sort of proof to the table to explain why a mech with less hitpoints and damage is somehow, unintuitively overpowered. Just half remembered anecdotes about how they played perfectly, but there was nothing they could do against the unstoppable juggernaut that is the Locust.

People need to come up with a reasonably persuasive way to prove the OPness of a light mech if they want their argument to carry any weight. Right now we have a ton of counter-factuals that indicate otherwise.

The problem is actually manyfold and one or more points below apply...

a. they can't hit it --> blame the light because it cannot be their lack of skill

b. they use their laser spam builds and brush it over the light because they can't keep it on target --> blame the light of having an invincible lag shield despite it is simply again their lack of aiming and also weapon choice

c. they can equip at least one streak launcher to scare away lights --> they do not want to change their l33t meta build and adapt

d. they do not aim for the legs but spray it over the whole light mech --> blame the light of having an invincible lag shield and ignore their own poor tactical decision


Conclusion:
Lights OP!!11!!1!11!


I hope my argumentation convinced you that light mechs are completely OP

Edited by Weeny Machine, 28 May 2019 - 11:02 AM.

[TheRealKaiAllard]

Derrek Weston, on 18 May 2019 - 07:23 AM, said:

Right now, the game reminds me of how the game was within its first year or two of release, in that the light mechs are ruining games. Swarm tactics by small, fast moving, mechs are extremely difficult to deal with and are very forgiving for the light mech due to how game mechanics work (who needs lots of hit points when you can dodge most incoming damage). It is also no a very fun gameplay for those on the receiving side of it. Why would someone subject themselves to being someone else's game content when they have little chance of countering attacks from these nimble mechs?

If this is the kind of gameplay you want MWO to be devs, the disregard the post and carry on. However, I'm pretty certain it ill not lure many new players into the fold and will cause players like myself to just go find fun in another game. If this is not the kind of gameplay you are aiming for then do something about it already. Inaction is having the same effect as the above scenario.

Just my 2 cents

Just stop.... Seriously, right now the average weight of mechs in a battle is 70 tons or more... I see swarms of assaults and heavies as the issue. I play both, but it's not uncommon for me to be the only light, and to have a heavy as the 4th in alpha lance.

[Horseman]

Derrek Weston, on 18 May 2019 - 07:23 AM, said:

Right now, the game reminds me of how the game was within its first year or two of release, in that the light mechs are ruining games. Swarm tactics by small, fast moving, mechs are extremely difficult to deal with and are very forgiving for the light mech due to how game mechanics work (who needs lots of hit points when you can dodge most incoming damage). It is also no a very fun gameplay for those on the receiving side of it. Why would someone subject themselves to being someone else's game content when they have little chance of countering attacks from these nimble mechs?

A Flea tried to do that to my DWF yesterday. I shot twice. The flea died.

[LowSubmarino]

C E Dwyer, on 28 May 2019 - 05:25 AM, said:

It isn't the lights, ruining the game it's the stupid not supporting the slow,

Why would you support slow mechs. In order to effectively cover slow mechs, youd have to tell each pug team every single time, that it is advantageous to cover your assaults. Its tiring and annoying to have to tell ppl the most basic stuff over and over again and most pug teams wont understand anyway.

So, you go back or cover an assault that falls behind which is being 'chased' by the entire deathball of team red.

That is suicide. With the nascar meta it is impssible to cover ppl that fall behind unless it is an organized team and actually smart players. It is way more effective to just let the slow ones die and in turn, punish the slow targets in team red. Even if you loose, youlll get a ton more cbills and dmg and way better stats being aggressive, than by trying to cover slow mechs and bad pilots that fall behind in 40 kph mechs that have no place in unorgainze QP matches.

I cant even recommend anybody to do that. You wont get much money out of it, not much cbills, you wont get in very much dmg and you will just melt, because you have no chance covering a unit which is being overwhelmed by a dozen mechs. Thats suicide.

Its always the bad players that complain 'dont leave the slow mechs behind'. Its always the bad players. The question is: why are they even in a position to be so slow and always behind team, behind nascar formation, easily farmed doing 50 dmg tops. Cannofodder. Its always the very worst players that complain.

Hate to break it down to you slow players but you will aways fall behin in slow mechs. Its QP pug matches. Nobody will cover you and ppl will run and circle. They dont care if youre slow or complaiging that wont ever change anything. Adapt to that playstyle and if you get like 100 to 400 dmg mostly in big huge assault mechs then you should really place other weight classes. If you bring that kind of armor and firepower and then land like 5 alphas before you melt, then youre simply not good enough by any means to play assault mechs.

thats just a fact. Most assault mechs I see just melt far away out of position. And yet, it is they that always complain. Dont leave us behind. Yes, they will all leave you behind again and over again. How often you wanne complain about that. Thats mwos QP. Its all about 'leaving' slow mechs behind or; hunting down team reds slow mechs. Its always hunting the slow mechs and circling around the center. Kinda sad really, but thats mwos most played scenario. Run in circles. id play in a unit instead with some competent players. I hate being in cannofodder team that just melts and then you see the stats and they do like 60 dmg. They cant even land one full alpha before they melt. But all the talking units do and the bad jokes of most men bore me too quickly and distract me from playing.

id need a team that doesnt talk so annoyingly much but just gives military style, presices commands and plays seriously. This constant banter is way too distracting.

Thats why im stuck in QP.

id join group que if that was possible as a solo pilot there you at least have a chance to be in really good teams. And not in mostly cannofodder noob teams that just melt doing 50 dmg tops. I dont even konw how anyobdy can get to tier 1 - 3 by doing 50 dmg in an entire match. Hows that even possible. In sc2 you wouldnt even leave woods league if you cant even wall of your base. And yet, mwo 'tier 1' players are often times either complete beginners that never ever played any game in their entire lifes or theyre like 2 to maybe 3 years ol

Tier system sucks in mwo.

Give us some real tiers. Cause this i bs.

And I wanne choose which server to join and I wanne see the players rankings. Some real rankings. Where you can actually just look at one player and see immediately if that is an actually competent player. i dont get enyoment out of 12 : 0 stomps. I had 3 of them yesterday. In case you dont unerstand what that means. It means that the entirety of team red with their combined firepower and armor did not (I reapeat did not) manage to kill one single enemy mech.

I just dont wanne play in those teams nor do I want to face those teams. I doesnt provide any challenge. at all on any level.

But instead of finding a way to give us a real match maker we get mech pack after mech pack after mech pack for all eternity. So thats all you can do. Just grab cash cash cash and more cash. real developers would actually try to balance a game and to provide the best possible experience. How can you allow complete beginners that land not even a full alpha in an entier match (hows that even possible????) vs players that have been around forever and since open beta. What kind of match maker is that.

Whoever desigend that thing....well. He or she simply did not do a good job at all.

[Wil McCullough]

To get the best out of lighter mechs, you need to have fast reflexes (to capitalize on their nimbleness) and the ability to make micro adjustments on the fly (hold burns on single components while moving fast) due to their low weight limits.

A lot of assault pilots have slow reflexes and can't hold burns so they opt for big mechs with more firepower and durability to compensate. The drawback is that this pairs slow reflexes with slow mech agility, which is something they always seem to forget or dismiss. It's no wonder they get feasted on by players with good hand eye coordination in a nimble mech. It's their worst match up.

They don't help themselves when they stop moving completely for 3-4 seconds each time to line up a shot. Or can't seem to split their concentration between what's happening in front of them and their minimap. When a player can't even move and shoot at the same time, it's not surprising he can't move, shoot, watch his map and hold down a button to push to talk when things get hairy.

It's probably the main reason why assaults tend to dawdle around, get half theur mech destroyed before noticing and staying mute until they die, then embark on a tirade against their teammates for not helping them. Most of these taters can't even manage the chat wheel. Expecting them to do something "typical" like coming out of cover, alpha-ing while momentarily stationary, slamming on their coolshot, spreading incoming fire and retreating back behind cover is probably akin to asking them to invade moscow armed with a spoon.

There's nothing wrong with being bad at a game. There's a lot of things wrong in being bad and feeling entitled to good performance against better players.

Edited by Wil McCullough, 28 May 2019 - 07:06 PM.

[Insignus]

Derrek Weston, on 18 May 2019 - 07:23 AM, said:

Right now, the game reminds me of how the game was within its first year or two of release, in that the light mechs are ruining games. Swarm tactics by small, fast moving, mechs are extremely difficult to deal with and are very forgiving for the light mech due to how game mechanics work (who needs lots of hit points when you can dodge most incoming damage). It is also no a very fun gameplay for those on the receiving side of it. Why would someone subject themselves to being someone else's game content when they have little chance of countering attacks from these nimble mechs?

If this is the kind of gameplay you want MWO to be devs, the disregard the post and carry on. However, I'm pretty certain it ill not lure many new players into the fold and will cause players like myself to just go find fun in another game. If this is not the kind of gameplay you are aiming for then do something about it already. Inaction is having the same effect as the above scenario.

Just my 2 cents

I play a stealth medium as more or less a supersized light mech.

Typically, what happens in the scenario you're describing is that an assault or heavy has gone off tour and is on their ownsome, or is on the edge of the line. They then treat the light as a nuisance, or fail to acknowledge its presence, and are either whittled down or swarmed.

Usually, this is due to the fact that, as a whole, being a Heavy/Assault doesn't seem to encourage basic situational awareness development to the same degree in which, conversely, it is heavily promoted in the light mech playstyle.

This is, unfortunately, not always a correctable problem, as some of us go the extra mile of timing our shots to your rear to coincide with the shots you're getting on your front armor, thus negating the damage ring warnings. Combined with stealth and low visibility weapons like MPLs, a 100 ton mech can be easily downed by a light/medium mech.

This is a desired state of affairs because as a heavy/assault, as others have mentioned, your margin for mistakes is much higher than a light/medium's is. You should be penalized in equal measure when you make a mistake.


What grinds my gears though is the number of people who play lights as deep flankers without ECM/Stealth, then run in on ECM Stealth mechs sneaking on folks and give away the whole game by blipping on someone's radar and getting THE ENTIRE ENEMY TEAM to turn around and squirrel on the stealth/ecm mech, thus costing the team sometimes 2 or 3 kills just so that non-ecm light can get CTed by a gaggle of angry PPC boats in the first minute.

You ask them politely to buzz off and go somewhere else, or even just stay in your ecm, but they just charge on in to do basically nothing, while you could've quietly removed 2 or 3 assaults from the board.

Edited by Insignus, 31 May 2019 - 08:40 PM.

[YueFei]

Wil McCullough, on 28 May 2019 - 06:58 PM, said:

It's probably the main reason why assaults tend to dawdle around, get half theur mech destroyed before noticing and staying mute until they die, then embark on a tirade against their teammates for not helping them. Most of these taters can't even manage the chat wheel. Expecting them to do something "typical" like coming out of cover, alpha-ing while momentarily stationary, slamming on their coolshot, spreading incoming fire and retreating back behind cover is probably akin to asking them to invade moscow armed with a spoon.

LOL!

Wil McCullough, on 28 May 2019 - 06:58 PM, said:

There's nothing wrong with being bad at a game. There's a lot of things wrong in being bad and feeling entitled to good performance against better players.

So true.

[FLE 20]

Nerf Piranha no good for anybody

[Jman5]

Insignus, on 31 May 2019 - 08:38 PM, said:

some of us go the extra mile of timing our shots to your rear to coincide with the shots you're getting on your front armor, thus negating the damage ring warnings. Combined with stealth and low visibility weapons like MPLs, a 100 ton mech can be easily downed by a light/medium mech.

Ah, I should have known other people did this too! Whenever I see the LRMs incoming I wait until just as they hit to backshot them. The missiles hitting, the shaking, the explosions blinding, the INCOMING MISSILE warning blazing. Easy to miss the light that is also peppering your backside.

[Y E O N N E]

Jman5, on 01 June 2019 - 06:27 AM, said:

Ah, I should have known other people did this too! Whenever I see the LRMs incoming I wait until just as they hit to backshot them. The missiles hitting, the shaking, the explosions blinding, the INCOMING MISSILE warning blazing. Easy to miss the light that is also peppering your backside.

Counterpoint:

Shoot them just before so that, when they turn around, the missiles slam them in the rear.