30 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

Novakaine, on 18 May 2019 - 09:29 PM, said:

I blame the public "edumacation" system

you mean the public indoctrination system. school has little to do with education.

[C E Dwyer]

Battlemaster56, on 18 May 2019 - 08:19 PM, said:

Alot of people in QP who play heavies and assaults are straight out ret*rded, especially when they try following the fast mediums and lights. In the end it force other heavies and assaults who can't nascar to nascar because sticking with the team = high survivabilty and a good win chance.

Personally I just want smart flanks and not ring around the roses in hpg, and mining 24/7.

Let me amend this

People playing lights and mediums, in QP, don't give a damn about the heavies and Assaults, only their own personal glory, trying to take down disconnected mechs and those slow off the mark.

Leaving the slower mechs no option, but to nascar, because if they do try and form a firing line, they die faster, because not only do they face nascaring assaults they also get butt shot by the lights.

Ergo, if your not going to escort your big guns before going off on your quest for personal glory, blame yourself, not the slow mechs.

[Mystere]

Why NASCAR or firing line and not crossfire?

[Tarl Cabot]

Y E O N N E, on 18 May 2019 - 09:58 PM, said:

You don't even need communication to not NASCAR, you just need to have a spine and the intelligence to actually look at your damn minimap.

Actually, there is a need for communication, starting from the when a pilot steps into a mech but it is not there. There is the lack of training and reinforcement of good tactics due to the lack of communication.

Nor does it help that spawn points mirror each other on majority of the maps, especially the maps where it can be the most detrimental at the beginning of the game.

C..<..B..<...A
v
v ^
^
C..>..B..>...A

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 19 May 2019 - 05:49 AM.

[Asym]

JC Daxion, on 18 May 2019 - 07:17 PM, said:

I have zero clue why nascar rules. More often than not the nascar mechs catch up one by one. Why don't the slow guys/ heavy mechs stop and grab cover, while the couple quick guys flank one way or another...


I just don't get it. It certainly is not comp or high end play, but why is QP nascar a thing? I can't even count how many times reverse/firing line just destroys folks, even if it is just 2-3 mechs holding the line. Often those few "tanks" can hold up the entire team while the others catchup. (yea i get that, in those cases nascar worked, because 3-4 mechs slowed them up enough) But still..


Maybe it is a QP thing, or maybe because people turn off talk/chat.. i dunno. For a team sport, seams like at least in QP, people don't wanna team. Though i will say, when some folks call, or talk, or work together even in a loss it is often far better.

What are your thoughts on this? Is it just join a Unit, and play the new FW and QP is all about solo?

Oh my, you are confused.... Team Sport? Where? What game is that??? Think: First Person Shooter....... You know, that thingy PGI created to replace Faction Play: Solaris..... Because formal teams make games toxic.... Ah, like the great FP exodus a little while ago.

NASCAR embodies the saying: "All for One, and, One for All.........and, more for Me !!!" FPS The new reality because the "Like" generation of gamers can't even talk to each other in person;.......let alone, work together without feeling bullied or offended. Heck, they need "prescribed drugs" just to go to school and have therapists at the Schools, College or Universities they attend just to get through a normal week.......... Good grief.

NASCAR is in every game I play and there's nothing we can do about it !!!! You should see it in World of Warships ! It's hilarious to watch and just as costly.........

[Wil McCullough]

because bad assault pilots can't fend for themselves, that's why.

a pincer/hammer and anvil works but when the skill level of your assaults' pilots is so low that they can't shoot and move at the same time, it's better to just try to kill as many enemy stragglers as you can (when you're in a light).

if your team's assaults are any good, the nascar dissolves because the quick mechs just come up behind the enemy while the assaults pin them down and **** them in the ***.

problem always lies in bad pilots who drop in the fattest, slowest mech they can and then demand that the team hold their hand to the front line.

[Jman5]

Firing lines and any other coordinated action requires communication and trust. It requires someone on the team to get on VOIP and say something like: "Set up a firing line at G7." It then requires players to trust the commander that the position is a good call and that their teammates wont abandon them.

NASCAR is just a sophisticated version of what you see in tier 5 where everyone just sorta runs all over the place looking for winnable fights. By the time you reach tier 1, you usually realize that there is safety in numbers, that ganging up on someone is preferable to being ganged up on, and you know by now which way people usually go on maps.

If you have some killer anti-nascar strategy that is just so superior, then do it! Organize your team, execute your plans, claim your victories.

"B-b-but no one will listen to me!" I hear you whining. Then your communication skills need more work. Or your plan sucks and your ego is too big to admit you led your team into a disaster. I've done a fair bit of drop calling and I find most people are usually willing to listen to anyone if the plan isn't dumb and you communicate at the start of the match.

Here is my advice for people who want to get started on their own anti-nascar tactic. Pick one map. Learn the starting positions of your team and the enemy team. Think about what you would like to do and where you would like to go. Next time you get that map, execute that plan while recording your game. Did it go well? Did it go poorly? Where was the failure at? Was it a failure of your leadership and inability to get your team to buy into your plan? Was it a bad position to set up in retrospect, or incomplete? Was the plan theoretically awesome, but too complex and impractical in the solo queue? Was the plan too rigid and unresponsive to a changing situation?

Now iterate.

Edited by Jman5, 19 May 2019 - 06:50 AM.

[Sjorpha]

A bit of a prisoner's dilemma. It is in the teams best interest not to nascar, but it is in each individuals best interest to follow the nascar if other people are doing it.

Prisoner's dilemmas are solved through communication so the group can act on it's common interest rahter than individial interest.

Now some people may argue that it is not a genuine prisoner's dilemma in the sense that refusing to nascar can and are done with success by individuals even without comminication. I have two counter points here.

First is that the people I've seen saying this are very good at the game, and it is quite possile that the dilemma dissolves above a given skill level, in the sense that if you are good enough it stops being in your interest to follow the nascaring team. That doesn't remove the dilemma for anyone under that threshold.

Second is that a Prisoner's dilemma doesn't have to be absolutely real to cause strong effects on a group, it's enough that a large percentage of the group percieves it as real.

Edited by Sjorpha, 19 May 2019 - 07:14 AM.

[Jman5]

Sjorpha, on 19 May 2019 - 07:05 AM, said:

It is in the teams best interest not to nascar, but it is in each individuals best interest to follow the nascar if other people are doing it.

Is it though? I always do terribly and my winrate plummets on all but a couple of maps when my team does the second most popular tactic: ball up in one spot and hope they don't know what flanking is.

My last game went like this:

Player: take high ground.
Me: Where to chief?
Player: I assume you know what I mean if you have played this game before!

2 minutes later they flank us from both sides and we lose horribly.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Jman5, on 19 May 2019 - 06:48 AM, said:

"B-b-but no one will listen to me!" I hear you whining. Then your communication skills need more work. Or your plan sucks and your ego is too big to admit you led your team into a disaster. I've done a fair bit of drop calling and I find most people are usually willing to listen to anyone if the plan isn't dumb and you communicate at the start of the match.

They're hopeless. No matter how much I tell them how stupid they are, no matter how many times I call them a bunch of dumb, worthless a-holes, they just won't form a line in front of my LRM 80 SNV.

[SeventhSL]

NASCAR to the right happens because most people are right handed. Thus in Battletech a lot of Primary weapons are traditionally in the right arms of the Mechs. E.g. Execution powerfist and Dragon ballistics. This makes pushing right a better option as it is your dominant side verse their less dominant side.

That said, my best games tend to be those where I fight a good rearguard action, letting the enemy run into my fire before withdrawing to a new position. It slows them down, clusters them up for strikes, makes use of the slow friendlies and ensures our head catches their tail first.

ATM Mad dogs are amazing rear guard fighters. You put up a UAV as you withdraw and those fast lights will run headlong into it. Fast enough to keep ahead of the main body of the enemy and symmetrical so it doesn’t matter which side you poke with.

Edited by SeventhSL, 19 May 2019 - 05:51 PM.