My feelings as a loyalist...
15
Fp Weekly Report - May 21-2019
Started by Paul Inouye, May 21 2019 11:20 AM
367 replies to this topic
#142
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- 538 posts
Member
Posted 22 May 2019 - 03:18 PM
I thought all the PTS was for a Special Event System. That would be used for Special Events. Once a week, or once every 2 weeks.
That why I thought in the PTS, that I can do 3 hours of conquest, it is only every now and then. But I thought the old system would still be there, and only for these special events this system would be active.
Little did I know. This System the whole time. This should be the new CW? Bad idea.
To fix this ****:
- no way I will play 4 hours Incursion in a row, 3 hours skirmish in a row. Remember we had this in the past. Solution was randomization.
- we need the balancing forces of players, being able to switch between factions.
- I am in a Unit, but some of my Unit play for Wolf and some for Rasalhague. Are you on drugs? What is a Unit then good for?
- How you will fix the screw up with the Loyalist. IDK. But if you upset and drive out the last loyalists the player base will get smaler and smaller.
- Scouting: I dont care how you solve this, I rarely played it. But Scouting phases should be small, 1 or 2 hours not longer.
If we made all this changes, we have basically the PRE-PATCH CW, with a fancy little text and no seperate scouting queue.
Just admit you were wrong, revert back to the PRE-PATCH CW, and make this POST-PATCH CW, for SPECIAL EVENTS that happen to be once a week.
Edit: Spelling
That why I thought in the PTS, that I can do 3 hours of conquest, it is only every now and then. But I thought the old system would still be there, and only for these special events this system would be active.
Little did I know. This System the whole time. This should be the new CW? Bad idea.
To fix this ****:
- no way I will play 4 hours Incursion in a row, 3 hours skirmish in a row. Remember we had this in the past. Solution was randomization.
- we need the balancing forces of players, being able to switch between factions.
- I am in a Unit, but some of my Unit play for Wolf and some for Rasalhague. Are you on drugs? What is a Unit then good for?
- How you will fix the screw up with the Loyalist. IDK. But if you upset and drive out the last loyalists the player base will get smaler and smaller.
- Scouting: I dont care how you solve this, I rarely played it. But Scouting phases should be small, 1 or 2 hours not longer.
If we made all this changes, we have basically the PRE-PATCH CW, with a fancy little text and no seperate scouting queue.
Just admit you were wrong, revert back to the PRE-PATCH CW, and make this POST-PATCH CW, for SPECIAL EVENTS that happen to be once a week.
Edit: Spelling
Edited by tee5, 22 May 2019 - 03:48 PM.
#143
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- 538 posts
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Posted 22 May 2019 - 03:39 PM
Now I have seen, there are no Unit-Leaderboards anymore. So PGI has killed the Loyalists and the Units? Wow Chapeau.
#144
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- The Flame
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- LocationArea 52
Posted 22 May 2019 - 03:45 PM
Forget the fact that they apparently refuse to listen to those that put in the time and effort to try the PTS ... but even a PTS takes time/money and effort to launch.. how about in the future, BEFORE setting up a PTS, put future possible changes up for a player vote first.. otherwise your putting the cart before the horse.. see what the players want and stop guessing..
Edited by DAEDALOS513, 22 May 2019 - 03:46 PM.
#145
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- The Raider
- 383 posts
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Posted 22 May 2019 - 03:59 PM
tee5, on 22 May 2019 - 03:39 PM, said:
Now I have seen, there are no Unit-Leaderboards anymore. So PGI has killed the Loyalists and the Units? Wow Chapeau.
No merc either at least for me. Appears that all FP leaderboards are broke..
#146
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- Star Colonel IV
- 120 posts
Member
Posted 22 May 2019 - 04:52 PM
Before I start, I promise I am trying to be constructive with this. I have my vent, but I also have honest helpful suggestions, so please do not be turned off by my initial tone 
I just threw up in my mouth...
A "hardcore" loyalist for Davion is not going to fight for the other houses at all. That's what the word "loyalist" means. I think you underappreciate how much the lore matters to this universe. Creating the opportunity to carry a faction tag was one of the best things you could have done for this game. Now, after giving players a taste of the ability to be part of a faction, completely stripping the meaning of that to a per-conflict basis? People within my unit are considering leaving; allied units are ruffled, though I can't see their internal discussions; if this stays this way I will think long and hard about staying in the game, and I have played MechWarrior literally my whole life. It was the first computer game I ever played. Far from making FP better, this change is DRIVING PEOPLE AWAY FROM THE GAME. I have honestly yet to see ONE BIT of positive feedback about this change. I am fine with scouting. I enjoy scouting. But I do not think ANY game mode should be forced on people for ANY period of time.
One piece of more constructive feedback that I can give is this suggestion: make scouting playable during every phase, but have whatever scouting happens in a given phase lock in place at the end of said phase, and affect the next phase. So in any given phase you are scouting for the next phase. Of course, that would require a return to closer to the old system, but that is what LITERALLY EVERY PERSON I HAVE HEARD FROM SO FAR wants anyway. I usually try to keep my cool in all circumstances, and I am not very affected by emotion usually. But after this, I am honestly angry. I'm mad. You have taken the largest middle finger you could find and shoved it down every loyalist's throat. Then you took the next largest middle finger you could find and shoved it all the way up their nose. The "loyalist" option in the current system is literally less loyal than real life mercenaries, or even mercenaries in the BattleTech lore. It says "loyalist," but that is just a name. Loyalist does not exist anymore. I am a loyalist, so I do not exist anymore, in your system. I will not be playing Faction Play unless my faction is a part of whatever conflict you have come up with at the time, and even then, I might not, simply as a protest. And since FP is my primary reason for playing the game, this means that I won't be playing the game much or at all until I see a conflict with my faction. I am not the only one in this circumstances. I know it has been said a lot already, but have fun losing players. It isn't just people making threats. It is actually happening.
I like the idea of telling a story with FP. I really do. But this is simply not the way to do it. You are not making anyone happy with this, you are not attracting more players, you are driving old players away, and you are not going to earn more purchases with this. If this is the only way you can think of to tell a story with FP, then I don't want a story in FP. It was better how it was.
But why not have something like this, with the story, going on in normal FP? All Clan could fight as an ally to the one Clan (or you could go deeper and pick out lore allies as the story progresses), or you could even allow two conflicts to be going at once (that was the purpose of the "conflict" system, wasn't it?). Keep the game mode system the same as it currently is, but either shorten the attack phases or enlarge the capture zone on the bar (or both), to get more movement on the map. That way you can have your stories (which are an honestly good idea) without sticking a huge middle finger in anyone's face. That would also make it easier for units to see results for their efforts, which will encourage more people to play the mode. People like to affect the map. If you are worried about the MC economy, change the MC given out per planet to 5 per phase, cut the phase time from 8 to 3, and cut the planet caps from 540 to 180. You would actually be giving out less total MC, but more people would be able to earn it, and it would be more enjoyable for everyone.
I apologize for the yelling. I really do try to stay constructive. But so many aspects of this change are so honestly stupid that I have a hard time not using some form of emphasis on some of my words. That said, I apologize in advance for my next comment.
being able to swap between matches is not what FP and choosing your role in a conflict is about. Will keep an eye on this one as FP moves forward.
..........so since being able to swap between sides (I assume that's what you meant by matches, given the context) "is not what FP and choosing your role in a conflict is about," you are forcing us to swap between sides LITERALLY EVERY TIME YOU COME OUT WITH A NEW MINI-STORY? HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?!?
Also, I just posted this, and saw it show up without my Ghost Bear sticker. I am grieved anew. I have never pledged loyalty to anything but Ghost Bear since I started playing MWO on Christmas Day 2015.
Here, I fixed it:
Addendum:
The core of your supporters are units, and loyalist units in particular. Loyalist units, by the same token that makes them loyalist in the game, are the most loyal to the franchise. We are the ones that most want the game to succeed, and we positively work to make the game better, by mentoring pilots, cultivating the game's culture, and giving our educated advice whenever we can. Whenever we whine about something, we are whining because we care about the franchise and want to make it better. If you drive loyalists away, you are rotting your own core, and the rest will follow. I mean this more as a warning than a threat, but take it how you want: if you drive out the loyalists like this, the game itself will follow.
Paul Inouye, on 21 May 2019 - 04:30 PM, said:
Loyalist should only be pledging loyalty when their faction is part of a conflict. This is why you can change your role every conflict cycle. If you're a hardcore loyalist for Davion and they're not part of a given conflict, you can select Freelancer or Merc for that conflict.
I just threw up in my mouth...
A "hardcore" loyalist for Davion is not going to fight for the other houses at all. That's what the word "loyalist" means. I think you underappreciate how much the lore matters to this universe. Creating the opportunity to carry a faction tag was one of the best things you could have done for this game. Now, after giving players a taste of the ability to be part of a faction, completely stripping the meaning of that to a per-conflict basis? People within my unit are considering leaving; allied units are ruffled, though I can't see their internal discussions; if this stays this way I will think long and hard about staying in the game, and I have played MechWarrior literally my whole life. It was the first computer game I ever played. Far from making FP better, this change is DRIVING PEOPLE AWAY FROM THE GAME. I have honestly yet to see ONE BIT of positive feedback about this change. I am fine with scouting. I enjoy scouting. But I do not think ANY game mode should be forced on people for ANY period of time.
One piece of more constructive feedback that I can give is this suggestion: make scouting playable during every phase, but have whatever scouting happens in a given phase lock in place at the end of said phase, and affect the next phase. So in any given phase you are scouting for the next phase. Of course, that would require a return to closer to the old system, but that is what LITERALLY EVERY PERSON I HAVE HEARD FROM SO FAR wants anyway. I usually try to keep my cool in all circumstances, and I am not very affected by emotion usually. But after this, I am honestly angry. I'm mad. You have taken the largest middle finger you could find and shoved it down every loyalist's throat. Then you took the next largest middle finger you could find and shoved it all the way up their nose. The "loyalist" option in the current system is literally less loyal than real life mercenaries, or even mercenaries in the BattleTech lore. It says "loyalist," but that is just a name. Loyalist does not exist anymore. I am a loyalist, so I do not exist anymore, in your system. I will not be playing Faction Play unless my faction is a part of whatever conflict you have come up with at the time, and even then, I might not, simply as a protest. And since FP is my primary reason for playing the game, this means that I won't be playing the game much or at all until I see a conflict with my faction. I am not the only one in this circumstances. I know it has been said a lot already, but have fun losing players. It isn't just people making threats. It is actually happening.
I like the idea of telling a story with FP. I really do. But this is simply not the way to do it. You are not making anyone happy with this, you are not attracting more players, you are driving old players away, and you are not going to earn more purchases with this. If this is the only way you can think of to tell a story with FP, then I don't want a story in FP. It was better how it was.
But why not have something like this, with the story, going on in normal FP? All Clan could fight as an ally to the one Clan (or you could go deeper and pick out lore allies as the story progresses), or you could even allow two conflicts to be going at once (that was the purpose of the "conflict" system, wasn't it?). Keep the game mode system the same as it currently is, but either shorten the attack phases or enlarge the capture zone on the bar (or both), to get more movement on the map. That way you can have your stories (which are an honestly good idea) without sticking a huge middle finger in anyone's face. That would also make it easier for units to see results for their efforts, which will encourage more people to play the mode. People like to affect the map. If you are worried about the MC economy, change the MC given out per planet to 5 per phase, cut the phase time from 8 to 3, and cut the planet caps from 540 to 180. You would actually be giving out less total MC, but more people would be able to earn it, and it would be more enjoyable for everyone.
I apologize for the yelling. I really do try to stay constructive. But so many aspects of this change are so honestly stupid that I have a hard time not using some form of emphasis on some of my words. That said, I apologize in advance for my next comment.
Paul Inouye, on 21 May 2019 - 04:30 PM, said:
being able to swap between matches is not what FP and choosing your role in a conflict is about. Will keep an eye on this one as FP moves forward.
..........so since being able to swap between sides (I assume that's what you meant by matches, given the context) "is not what FP and choosing your role in a conflict is about," you are forcing us to swap between sides LITERALLY EVERY TIME YOU COME OUT WITH A NEW MINI-STORY? HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?!?
Also, I just posted this, and saw it show up without my Ghost Bear sticker. I am grieved anew. I have never pledged loyalty to anything but Ghost Bear since I started playing MWO on Christmas Day 2015.
Here, I fixed it:
Addendum:
The core of your supporters are units, and loyalist units in particular. Loyalist units, by the same token that makes them loyalist in the game, are the most loyal to the franchise. We are the ones that most want the game to succeed, and we positively work to make the game better, by mentoring pilots, cultivating the game's culture, and giving our educated advice whenever we can. Whenever we whine about something, we are whining because we care about the franchise and want to make it better. If you drive loyalists away, you are rotting your own core, and the rest will follow. I mean this more as a warning than a threat, but take it how you want: if you drive out the loyalists like this, the game itself will follow.
Edited by -Spectre, 22 May 2019 - 05:17 PM.
#147
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- Giant Helper
- 69 posts
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Posted 22 May 2019 - 05:04 PM
'Paul Inouye'
Loyalist should only be pledging loyalty when their faction is part of a conflict.??
when are the other factions/clans going to a part of this fubar faction play ? it would be smart to post some sort of schedule,instead of leaving everyone pissed off...
Loyalist should only be pledging loyalty when their faction is part of a conflict.??
when are the other factions/clans going to a part of this fubar faction play ? it would be smart to post some sort of schedule,instead of leaving everyone pissed off...
Edited by MechWpnsTech, 22 May 2019 - 05:07 PM.
#148
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- Ace Of Spades
- 17,157 posts
Member
Posted 22 May 2019 - 05:13 PM
Paul Inouye, on 22 May 2019 - 10:38 AM, said:
Presented some improvements to the stakeholders... nothing is going to come for free so it will take time to get implemented but there will also be some give and take on what's going to be addressed asap. We need to get a timeline estimate done and that's going to take a bit.
The first two things to be addressed:
- Multiple game modes during a phase. The game will select from a subset of game modes to choose from during a phase.
- Switching role/faction between Phases instead of Conflict.
There ARE other items but I will not be commenting on them until we get a clearer indication of the requested change and it's required development time.
The first two things to be addressed:
- Multiple game modes during a phase. The game will select from a subset of game modes to choose from during a phase.
- Switching role/faction between Phases instead of Conflict.
There ARE other items but I will not be commenting on them until we get a clearer indication of the requested change and it's required development time.
maybe switching sides should be offered to players as part of the story. you align to one side, the other side needs players. you meet a propagandists who tries to turn you to the other side and you can agree to that and flip and there might be some bonus for doing that.
#149
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- The Thumper
- 130 posts
Member
- LocationI have no idea. Im getting sky high in a spider 5v.
Posted 22 May 2019 - 05:22 PM
Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain, on 22 May 2019 - 03:59 PM, said:
No merc either at least for me. Appears that all FP leaderboards are broke..
I'm guessing here but I think the leaderboards wont be updated till end of conflict. I think paul was saying that rewards (loyalty points n stuff) would be dished out at the end of conflict, so maybe the leaderboards apply as well. Either that or nobody has played 25 games yet.
Edit: Or it's broken. Suprise.
Edited by VigorousApathy, 22 May 2019 - 05:23 PM.
#150
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- Shredder
- 690 posts
Member
Posted 22 May 2019 - 05:27 PM
Paul, this is what im talking about. Before we could have 4 groups playing, instead nobody is because nobody can switch factions.
#151
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- The Benefactor
- 16,697 posts
Member
Posted 22 May 2019 - 05:40 PM
@Paul not trying to beat a dead horse but I'm not sure this point has been really heard.
People playing MWO for the Battletech IP can have 30+ years of history with it. Many, maybe most, of those are not just big stompy robbit fans but are loyal to a faction like people are loyal to sports teams.
Missing out on this and Messing with it is akin to buying a sports game IP like, say, if PGI bought rights to NHL and made a league NHL game but then required players to play random teams. Sure people like the sport but a lot like the loyalty piece. From the beginning of FW it has felt as a player (I can't know your intent) that faction loyalty was discouraged, at times even punished. This is a free customer loyalty facet built into the IP that not only doesn't feel leveraged but feels outright punished and discouraged.
Why?
People playing MWO for the Battletech IP can have 30+ years of history with it. Many, maybe most, of those are not just big stompy robbit fans but are loyal to a faction like people are loyal to sports teams.
Missing out on this and Messing with it is akin to buying a sports game IP like, say, if PGI bought rights to NHL and made a league NHL game but then required players to play random teams. Sure people like the sport but a lot like the loyalty piece. From the beginning of FW it has felt as a player (I can't know your intent) that faction loyalty was discouraged, at times even punished. This is a free customer loyalty facet built into the IP that not only doesn't feel leveraged but feels outright punished and discouraged.
Why?
#154
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- 39 posts
Member
Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:06 PM
Pain G0D, on 21 May 2019 - 02:38 PM, said:
Wow . I had no idea FP enthusiasts hated scouting so much .
At least you are not alone. PGI has no clue what FP enthusiasts want either.
#155
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- CS 2020 Referee
- 8,987 posts
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- LocationMelbourne, AU
Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:23 PM
I know that no company EVER wants to do this...
But I gonna say it...
The FP component of the patch needs to be revert ASAP. This is Long Tom level of game breaking and we know the impact that had on the population and it taking over 6 months to fix.
Address the issues and run another PTS. Gives PGI 1-2 months to go back to the drawing board and I give my word Ill get 40+ people to test a PTS with all the issues addressed.
While waiting MORE time is far from ideal - what we have now is magnitudes worse.
But I gonna say it...
The FP component of the patch needs to be revert ASAP. This is Long Tom level of game breaking and we know the impact that had on the population and it taking over 6 months to fix.
Address the issues and run another PTS. Gives PGI 1-2 months to go back to the drawing board and I give my word Ill get 40+ people to test a PTS with all the issues addressed.
While waiting MORE time is far from ideal - what we have now is magnitudes worse.
#156
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- CS 2021 Bronze Champ
- 19 posts
Member
Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:34 PM
I just played an FP match, got 2k damage in three mechs and made 800,000cbills as a merc and made ZERO merc points. I would have made well over 1,000,000cbills and about a thousand merc points in the previous FP layout. The cbills was a kick to the nuts, but I've been working on my Merc rank ten for a while now. Now there's no merc points?! Am I cocked over here?
#157
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- Star Colonel
- 125 posts
Member
Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:43 PM
@ ASH
A pts ain't gonna fix jack. The matchmaker isn't the issue, the severe limitations on who can and can't play is the issue.
Isolating all factions but the two "chosen" ones isn't going to do anything.
PGI needs to revert the changes and reach out to players who actually touch FW. Maclearly, Mischief, Neirsolon, Grus, Jaybles, Saint Dane, Xannatar, Ghostreaver, Coyote, Marquis, Stool. ****, literally anybody who actually plays FW at primetime would be fine.
Getting advice from QP or comp heroes or "stakeholders" won't do anything but further destroy the active FW population.
In any case, PGI, if you hit my line or any players in actual FW units, I'm sure we could work this **** out overnight. If you continue to allow people who never play FW outside of events dictate what you do or don't do, I could guarantee that it'll just dig you deeper.
A pts ain't gonna fix jack. The matchmaker isn't the issue, the severe limitations on who can and can't play is the issue.
Isolating all factions but the two "chosen" ones isn't going to do anything.
PGI needs to revert the changes and reach out to players who actually touch FW. Maclearly, Mischief, Neirsolon, Grus, Jaybles, Saint Dane, Xannatar, Ghostreaver, Coyote, Marquis, Stool. ****, literally anybody who actually plays FW at primetime would be fine.
Getting advice from QP or comp heroes or "stakeholders" won't do anything but further destroy the active FW population.
In any case, PGI, if you hit my line or any players in actual FW units, I'm sure we could work this **** out overnight. If you continue to allow people who never play FW outside of events dictate what you do or don't do, I could guarantee that it'll just dig you deeper.
#158
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- Ace Of Spades
- 11 posts
Member
Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:52 PM
@paul/PGI brass
Here is another FTP game, and here is how they became the best.
Here is another FTP game, and here is how they became the best.
#159
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- The Solitary
- 31 posts
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Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:53 PM
geeee i can only wait to see what mw5 is going to be
#160
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- Ace Of Spades
- 13 posts
Member
Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:55 PM
J a y, on 22 May 2019 - 06:43 PM, said:
@ ASH
A pts ain't gonna fix jack. The matchmaker isn't the issue, the severe limitations on who can and can't play is the issue.
Isolating all factions but the two "chosen" ones isn't going to do anything.
A pts ain't gonna fix jack. The matchmaker isn't the issue, the severe limitations on who can and can't play is the issue.
Isolating all factions but the two "chosen" ones isn't going to do anything.
This is exactly it. You've pretty much ignored that large swatch of units (R79T, ARC7, HHoD, CGBI) that enjoy the bit of lore that comes with being their particular faction. These are large units that dedicate time to faction play, that now won't do so because they don't want to drop as either of the two required units. You may think it's stupid (I sure do), but it's the slight bit of lore that they're able to get out of the game and it makes it far less appealing playing FW if they have to wait multiple cycles to get their individual faction.
And dear lord, please come talk to MischiefSC, Jay, Merata Kell, Nightmage, F I S T, BROARL, myself, or anyone who actually drops faction as their main game mode. ISMO & Kcom live & breathe FW, and we know the simple fix to all of this (just drop all the extra junk and simply run more events in FW to get the population up, that's all we were asking for in the first place)
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