32 replies to this topic

[thievingmagpi]

I'll take a Kraken or AS7-K over a King Crab just about any day (with the exception perhaps of long range trading)

[BenAran]

The6thMessenger, on 30 May 2019 - 06:06 AM, said:

More firepower, wut? Tell us what build the Atlas does effectively that King Crab cant.

Here's the thing, the Atlas has 8 total hard points of assorted type, the king crab has 10. It has the means to mass weapons over the atlas, with two components with ballistic hardpoints mean it could spread the slot requirement more leading the use of two AC10 and other heavier ballistic weapons which inevitably better ballistic build offering -- i mean since when could the atlas do a dakka as effectively or as powerful?

The energy-hardpoints not limited at the center torso means they could go larger than single-slot or mass double-slot weapons. The new King-Crab 001 now has one missile hardpoint on one side, means better missile spreading and the King Crab may lurm better as a result.

It can bring 2x AC20 + 4x SRM6 -- a full AC20 above the standard Atlas, and the best part is that it can sustain it. It can bring two gauss rifles, two ac10 and UAC10s, even two UAC20 if you could handle the heat. So far the only heavy ballistic that standard King-Crabs can't do is the LB20X and the HGR. Boar's' Head < Kaiju. It has high-mounted equipment, so doing a 2x LB10X, or 2x MRM30, or UAC10 or AC10, or HGR, or LB20X is kinda better.

Atlas always has been about durability,, admittedly better hitbox, access to ECM and additional AMS, but to argue firepower over king crab is laughable.

Disregarding poor forward speed, I like to see King Crab out do this: 4x SRM6 + 2x AC20

The thing is this:
The King Crab cannot use Heavy Gauss.
Doing a MRM70+HGR (which does not allow for much more heat due to MRMs being warm) is impossible on a KGC.
Sure, you can do a regular gauss for ten less damage. But your gauss fires from a much lower position than your torsos.
The atlas on the other hand brings a few positives.
1: better hitboxes, if only slightly better.
2: despite not being able to do double AC20, the Atlas can do scary amounts of weapons while still using its arms as shields.
These together mean that an Atlas will win a fight against a KGC because of the ability to spread damage, while at the same time having the same or more firepower.
The King Crab has exactly one use in my eyes and that is as a joke.
Right now, bringing a king crab puts you at a disadvantage on every map and that is even when you are only comparing it to stuff like an Atlas, which is not all that great either.
If you want to get into the real spicy stuff, lets talk about how the Annihilator can do EVERYTHING a KGC can do, but better with the only exception being speed.
Large Alphas without ghost heat? DHG+MPLs and you have an alpha that will blow a hole into a KGC no problem, without ghost heat.
LB40/60? Sure thing, go ahead!
ERLL Trading? Why not?

Now, this is an unfair point because to the best of my knowledge, the Annihilator is the best 100 tonner in the game, so its a bit of an unfair comparison.
So why not go to a chassis that the other guy described as being vastly inferior: The Direwolf.
The direwolf can do a modified dakkabuild using 1 UAC5, 2 UAC10 and 1 UAC20 that will just knock out the KGC, just so we stay at short range so no one can say that I am not playing to its strengths here.
Furthermore, the Dire can do LB60, which, while not doing as much damage as the 4 SRM6+A and double 20, will output more consistent damage with the added benefit of critting the huge CT once its opened.
And all of this does not even take into consideration that the KGC will have to cool down heavily after its first shot, while the dire will not.
To conclude this:
I fail to see how some of you are so desperately trying to stay positive about the KGC. I talk to people who play competetive a lot. They near universally said that the KGC is absolutely terrible and in need of an upgrade.
Which is why I say that we test the HSL on it and then make a decision. Obviously, AC20 heat gen should be removed after that, because it would give it too much sustain.

[FupDup]

BenAran, on 30 May 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

The thing is this:
The King Crab cannot use Heavy Gauss.
Doing a MRM70+HGR (which does not allow for much more heat due to MRMs being warm) is impossible on a KGC.

Kaiju Hero Variant said:

Am I a joke to you?

[The6thMessenger]

BenAran, on 30 May 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

The thing is this:
The King Crab cannot use Heavy Gauss.
Doing a MRM70+HGR (which does not allow for much more heat due to MRMs being warm) is impossible on a KGC.

Kaiju. ******* KAIJU. And guess what, it even has highmounts for that mix.

BenAran, on 30 May 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

The atlas on the other hand brings a few positives.
1: better hitboxes, if only slightly better.
2: despite not being able to do double AC20, the Atlas can do scary amounts of weapons while still using its arms as shields.
These together mean that an Atlas will win a fight against a KGC because of the ability to spread damage, while at the same time having the same or more firepower.

But, it's not firepower. It's durability.

BenAran, on 30 May 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

The King Crab has exactly one use in my eyes and that is as a joke.
Right now, bringing a king crab puts you at a disadvantage on every map and that is even when you are only comparing it to stuff like an Atlas, which is not all that great either.

Except the Kaiju, which I have. The side-torso builds on this platform is okay.

BenAran, on 30 May 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

If you want to get into the real spicy stuff, lets talk about how the Annihilator can do EVERYTHING a KGC can do, but better with the only exception being speed.

But that's the Annihilator, not an Atlas.

BenAran, on 30 May 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

So why not go to a chassis that the other guy described as being vastly inferior: The Direwolf.

The direwolf can do a modified dakkabuild using 1 UAC5, 2 UAC10 and 1 UAC20 that will just knock out the KGC, just so we stay at short range so no one can say that I am not playing to its strengths here.
Furthermore, the Dire can do LB60, which, while not doing as much damage as the 4 SRM6+A and double 20, will output more consistent damage with the added benefit of critting the huge CT once its opened.
And all of this does not even take into consideration that the KGC will have to cool down heavily after its first shot, while the dire will not.

You're going to compare Clan Tech versus IS Tech, and you expect KGC to come out on top. Seriously? [Redacted]

BenAran, on 30 May 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

I fail to see how some of you are so desperately trying to stay positive about the KGC. I talk to people who play competetive a lot. They near universally said that the KGC is absolutely terrible and in need of an upgrade.
Which is why I say that we test the HSL on it and then make a decision. Obviously, AC20 heat gen should be removed after that, because it would give it too much sustain.

I never said that King Crab isn't terrible, I just said it would have better firepower to an Atlas.

If anything, just put the +HSL on AC20, on top of the heatgen and CD quirk. Guy needs love anyways.

Edited by draiocht, 03 June 2019 - 10:22 AM.
unconstructive

[BenAran]

FupDup, on 30 May 2019 - 01:50 PM, said:

It is the hero mech. I did not want to involve mechs you have to pay IRL money for.

The6thMessenger, on 30 May 2019 - 03:24 PM, said:

Kaiju. ******* KAIJU. And guess what, it even has highmounts for that mix.



But, it's not firepower. It's durability.



Except the Kaiju, which I have. The side-torso builds on this platform is okay.



But that's the Annihilator, not an Atlas.



You're going to compare Clan Tech versus IS Tech, and you expect KGC to come out on top. Seriously? [Redacted]



I never said that King Crab isn't terrible, I just said it would have better firepower to an Atlas.

If anything, just put the +HSL on AC20, on top of the heatgen and CD quirk. Guy needs love anyways.

https://mech.nav-alp...#4aa9ab7a_AS7-D
Just to put the claim to rest.

Edited by draiocht, 03 June 2019 - 10:24 AM.
Quote Clean-up

[The6thMessenger]

BenAran, on 30 May 2019 - 03:31 PM, said:

It is the hero mech. I did not want to involve mechs you have to pay IRL money for.

Until you realize that PGI has events all year long that amass MC, on top of hero-sales, enough to buy the Kaiju by just playing the game without paying as you would for grinding with CBills.

So yeah, no, you're just dismissing it because it doesn't fit the narrative.

BenAran, on 30 May 2019 - 03:31 PM, said:

https://mech.nav-alp...#4aa9ab7a_AS7-D
Just to put the claim to rest.

No, you didn't put anything at rest. You just ignored it because it's convenient.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 31 May 2019 - 05:31 AM.

[Dauntless Blint]

Khobai, on 23 May 2019 - 01:00 AM, said:

King Crab needs to be 20% smaller. Thats the only thing that will fix it.

"Higher" claws & greater base heat capacity would be nice or mobility. Weapon specific perks shoehorn builds into doing silly things sometimes. I like variety better.

AC20's are garbage anyway, IS need to scrounge all the damage & heat management per tonnage they can.

Armor can duct tape bad hit boxes but armor means nothing in this game.
There are no "tanks" when 2 enemy pinpoint/alpha mech's can evaporate 160 CT armor in one trigger pull.
Damage, heat management and position is what wins fights.

Looking forward to seeing the plain jane KGC 001. released the (S) version looks nice.

RAC5's are garbage on the KGC but they are a cool weapon so I don't care that I'm gimping my team.

and as for Annihilator that thing is so garbage it's 10% heat perk can hold it up in the one battle field situation it works (medium range choke point) in all other scenarios it's trash.

Edited by Dauntless Blint, 30 May 2019 - 09:21 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 03 June 2019 - 10:33 AM.
unconstructive

[BenAran]

The6thMessenger, on 30 May 2019 - 04:32 PM, said:

Until you realize that PGI has events all year long that amass MC, on top of hero-sales, enough to buy the Kaiju by just playing the game without paying as you would for grinding with CBills.

So yeah, no, you're just dismissing it because it doesn't fit the narrative.



No, you didn't put anything at rest. You just ignored it because it's convenient.

Okay, show me your build that has more damage than this on a KGC.
As for you trying to say that I am disingenuous, sure I will take the Kaiju into the mix then. The builds I have tested on it can occasionally have more damage but at the cost of tons of speed, being pretty much without armor or being the IS equivalent of the Direstar, meaning they fire once and die.
And I did say that the King Crab can be used for meme builds.

Also, what narrative am I spinning?

[The6thMessenger]

BenAran, on 01 June 2019 - 03:22 AM, said:

Okay, show me your build that has more damage than this on a KGC.

125 > 110 - If you finally maxed the heat bar, then just fire the HGR.
130 > 110
115 > 110
110 = 110 - In a few months, it'll be released for C-Bill.

What if we used UAC20s and considered the double-tap?

AS7-D - 100 to 120 firepower.

KGC-001(S) - 100 to 140 firepower. This is where the extra ballistic hardpoint comes in handy.

BenAran, on 01 June 2019 - 03:22 AM, said:

As for you trying to say that I am disingenuous, sure I will take the Kaiju into the mix then. The builds I have tested on it can occasionally have more damage but at the cost of tons of speed, being pretty much without armor or being the IS equivalent of the Direstar, meaning they fire once and die.

And I did say that the King Crab can be used for meme builds.

So King Crab is slow? yeah, duh, that's the take away with bringing a lot of guns especially in IS tech. All I ever said that the King Crab have better affinity for fire-power, never said It would be effective with it.

You're just moving the goal-post now with that mobility stuff, like I said, disingenuous. Tell you what, lets be realistic and use only a minimum of 325 Engine.

110 Firepower, LFE350 - Guess what, I matched your firepower, on a faster platform too. The extra energy hardpoints come in handy, that means I could reduce my MRMs.

110 Firepower, LFE345 - That spread missile hardpoint also proves useful, because I could go higher MRMs and use LFE.

BenAran, on 01 June 2019 - 03:22 AM, said:

Also, what narrative am I spinning?

Spoiler

BenAran, on 29 May 2019 - 06:36 AM, said:

This is not a joke thread. the Atlas can pack more firepower and has better hitboxes.But its good you got a laugh out of it.

Like we didn't just go through with this.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 01 June 2019 - 05:02 AM.

[Thiccacuga]

Ya'll arguing about numbers and stuff, failing to notice that numbers don't mean jack if you're piloting like Micheal J. Fox trying to paint like Bob Ross.

Besides the fact that the numbers are just a technical sum of all potential damage, there are other factors, such as consideration for heat, actual positioning, whether you hit the target with all damage, etc. Babbling about numbers gets you nowhere.

Edited by CuddlyZebesian, 01 June 2019 - 09:55 AM.

[RickySpanish]

CuddlyZebesian, on 01 June 2019 - 09:55 AM, said:

Ya'll arguing about numbers and stuff, failing to notice that numbers don't mean jack if you're piloting like Micheal J. Fox trying to paint like Bob Ross.

Besides the fact that the numbers are just a technical sum of all potential damage, there are other factors, such as consideration for heat, actual positioning, whether you hit the target with all damage, etc. Babbling about numbers gets you nowhere.

Yep KGC has issues with just hitting stuff tbh, those arms are wide and low slung, and the whole thing moves extremely slowly. I'd rather pilot a Kodiak 3...

[Thiccacuga]

RickySpanish, on 01 June 2019 - 10:06 AM, said:

Yep KGC has issues with just hitting stuff tbh, those arms are wide and low slung, and the whole thing moves extremely slowly. I'd rather pilot a Kodiak 3...

Would you like a build that has sustainable damage with a speed of about 52ish? I got two different flavors.
I got Cotton Candy

Spoiler

A^3820`1|`g|i^|i^|i^|i^|0=2p:1|`?|`?|i^q:1|i^r41|S@s41|X?tD1|@O|@OuD1|AP|APv<0|`Ow<0:0:0

or Blue Rasberry

Spoiler

A_3220`1|i^|i^|i^|[g|JO|\Op:1|i^|i^|Y?|Y?|Y?|Y?q:1|7@|7@|\?|\?r41|o?s41|o?tD1|\O|\OuD1|JO|JOv>0w<0:0:0

EDIT: Actually kind of think I should add the stats since I've gotten these as an idea of what to expect.

Edited by CuddlyZebesian, 01 June 2019 - 10:34 AM.