429 replies to this topic

[shaytalis]

dario03, on 27 May 2019 - 09:39 PM, said:

If players are so fanatical though then why do they need extra rewards for being a loyalist? If staying pledged to one faction at all times is an option and rewards were set up so they can keep earning as much as someone that moves around, shouldn't that be enough for them to just stay loyal on their own? The people that really really want to be loyal can just not switch even if it is always an option, and the players that want matches can.

The idea is for loyalty to be rewarded and for mercenary behavior to be rewarded, just in different fun ways. You could equally say "if mercenaries like being mercs then why do they need C-Bills?" etc. The rewards are part of the fun.

[evil kerensky]

I think the trial loyalist and permanent loyalists are good ideas, but need a way to let permanent loyalists get rewards for the other factions, because an idiot will arise who goes perm on accident and will wanna switch or hell whine.

If permanent loyalists got some lp for fighting with their allies itd be cool. Like a steiner loyalist fighting for frr would get .6 stenier lp and .4 frr lp. Then just mix up the factions so every faction is allied with a different faction as often as possible. For sametech conflicts that are on the opposite tech divide from you, let the players choose their side the way a merc would, so clanners can get is trees done while still loyal to clan (insert dumb clan name) during a davion/kurita conflict, and vice versa.

And/or add prestige trees for repeating trees

Mercs should get a different cbill bonus depending on their rankings in the leaderboards, and just rename leaderboards to "mrbc rating"

While your making loyalty permanent, you should develop a way to track active loyalists vs nonactive loyalists and by timezone so you can start work on the patch thatll inevitably need to come after this, population balancing.

Also, i like that idea of turning turrets into respawning tanks. I wanna conquer a planet, and pay cbills or mc to upgrade tanks from saladins to demolishers to defend it for me :3

[MischiefSC]

I feel like a bunch of people didn't actually read what was proposed.

At no point would being a loyalist prevent you from dropping in any FW event you want.

At no point would it keep you from playing with your friends, unless they were on one side and you the other.

People who haven't declared permanent loyalist could still do the mechbay farming thing.

Most the objections I'm seeing here wouldn't happen in the suggested situation.

I'm also a fan of requiring rank 5 or higher loyalty in a faction to let you do permanent loyalty. This largely eliminates the newbie accident thing.

[MischiefSC]

Paul Inouye, on 27 May 2019 - 05:04 PM, said:

Ok... Revision 3.

Talking with an engineer about other stuff.. this came up in conversation and addresses the 'take the stick out of the equation and keep the carrot' feedback.

1) You can pledge loyalty on a Trial basis to anyone.
- You can swap Faction loyalty any time you feel like.
- You earn LP at 100% of normal rate while in Trial.
- You earn LP at 140% of normal rate if you pledge permanent.

How about that?

That's a great solution.

What are the options for different tiered rewards? For example instead of a progressively slower and slower grind, you have a 'Loyalty Rank 20' reward sure but at certain values along the way you continue getting smaller rewards.

This way going single faction loyalty isn't gimping yourself for rewards.

I realize this wording won't make people as happy but I think the reality is that you want to give people the option to go single faction loyalist (because that's where their motivation to play is) without feeling like they're sacrificing rewards (which faction hopping for the mech bay tour provides).

To be fair I'm not sure why the desire to add some drawback to pledging loyalty needs to be there. Being a merc doesn't provide a drawback, why should being a loyalist?

Again, greatly appreciate this thread and what it represents.

[slide]

shaytalis, on 27 May 2019 - 08:41 PM, said:

Could we brainstorm some possible rewards for rank 20 loyalists who remain active?

From the mechanical:
Earn that year's Loyalty mech. Earn additional dropdecks.

To the cosmetic:
Earn an exclusive pattern or cockpit item. Wear an exclusive Icon during the following year.


What are some thing that would be rewarding and not game breaking?

It depends a bit on how you want to level LP after rank 20. The way it is set up currently would see rank 21 require 2 million LP, 4 million for rank 22 etc, which IMO is a bit too much grind. I would rather see it just be get X reward every Y LP.

Having said that the LP trees really need to be reworked to give them individual faction flavor all the way from rank 1 or 2. Realistically they can throw anything at it that can be purchased in store, paints, decals, cockpit items, none of which are game breaking, but this could break into PGI's economic model. Following on from Pauls suggestion of a probation period from rank 5 though you could issue a faction logo decal at rank 6, paints at 10, loyalty medallion at 15 and maybe the option to turn one mech that you own into a hero at 20. After that recurring MC every 250k. The current generic trees smack of laziness in the initial push to give them any flavor at all.

I've said this before else where but what I would really like to see is content that can only be accessed through the LP tree and content that keeps people motivated to get. And no Cbills and GXP which can easily be earned just by playing QP doesn't cut it. The MC is better, as well as the mechbays, particularly for new players.

I would like to see every faction have it's own unique mechs available at ranks 5,10,15,20 corresponding to a light, medium, heavy and assault.

Example: Davion (all Hero mechs BTW)
Rank 5 - Firestarter - unique variant with 2 missile slots
Rank 10 - Centurian - unique variant with energy slots in each arm
Rank 15 - Jagermech - with all Energy Slots
Rank 20 - Battlemaster - Ballistics in both arms
(some may exist making it up on the fly)
None of the above would be game breaking.

I appreciate that making unique variant might be to much work so you could at least add Hero versions of a factions Totem mechs. For all IS factions they get a 35 tonner at rank five.
Davion - Firestarter
Kurita - Panther
Liao - Raven
Steiner - Jenner
etc
Or even the same mechs but the respective variant -D, -K, -L etc

I am sure the community could come up with appropriate lists for each faction.

For the recurring levels I think Loyalty Medallions which make a mech a hero would work great as motivation too.

[justcallme A S H]

Paul Inouye, on 27 May 2019 - 05:04 PM, said:

Ok... Revision 3.

Talking with an engineer about other stuff.. this came up in conversation and addresses the 'take the stick out of the equation and keep the carrot' feedback.

1) You can pledge loyalty on a Trial basis to anyone.
- You can swap Faction loyalty any time you feel like.
- You earn LP at 100% of normal rate while in Trial.
- You earn LP at 140% of normal rate if you pledge permanent.

How about that?

After doing a lot of reading of initial post - I think this is actually the best idea of all and a good balance with a 40% bonus. A potentially longer wait for games however the reward is well worth it.

I mean avg game for me is around 1000 points. So a 1400 point haul - I would be happy with that.

Four questions resulting from that.

• Would that also then let MERCs swap at any time? IE - Bring back that feature?
  
• Loyalist 10-game probation Matches - Can we get rid of the 10 games, please? Especially with events that will flip/change.
  
• Loyalist Trial - They can switch any time, same as MERC?
  
• Population % Counter - Can there please be a in-game counter that shows real-time active* population? So players can make the permanent pledge for an event.

*Active Population - meaning players that have played more than 10 games in the last 2 or 3 months. Issue with say MercStar and 200 players swapping over to a single loyalty means it skews the population too easily. Maybe 150 of their players haven't play a match for instance in 4 months.

This also assumes - that when a Unit Leader picks a side, the entire unit goes with it. Which IMO it should. It used to work that way but current patch changed that entire functionality. Kinda defeats the point of a 'Unit' and the discussion that a Unit has around what to do, play and so on in the game. I feel that is an important part of the story for some units.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 27 May 2019 - 11:07 PM.

[Warning incoming Humble Dexterer]

My counter-suggestion :
- 100% gains if Loyalists are not fighting for their own Faction.
- 150% or more if Loyalists are fighting for their own Faction.

Then you are rewarding Loyalty (during ~one conflict per month), instead of heavily punishing Loyalty (in almost every conflict).

[Nightbird]

Permanent Loyalty will give you head aches, I'd guess more than half the people that commit to it will want out and will be writing to support etc... If you're willing to put up with all those, sure, why not. My suggestion is so much simpler, keep the existing loyalty system and add a steep c-bill (and/or MC cost) to breaking it. At least that way, people won't be contacting support.

If there's no rewards past rank 20, most people will want out.

Edited by Nightbird, 27 May 2019 - 11:38 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Nightbird, on 27 May 2019 - 11:37 PM, said:

If there's no rewards past rank 20, most people will want out.

Agreed. Key point - There MUST be something past Rank 20.

For many, many loyalists they have and are only interested in one tree.

Over 2-3 years they have maxxed out that tree. I mean they could go to another tree (Again that is trying to convert a Christian to a Buddhist)... Or PGI could allow said trees, all trees, to be reset. Merc included. Given you could just "go earn another tree" why penalise those who want to play a story and play as their lifelong committment etc. To those people that's serious business.

I think that alone - allowing tree reset upon Max - could bring back quite a few people who maxed it out long ago and then essentially had nothing to play for anymore.

Making a 'rank 30' could be another idea but I feel that grind would be extremely excessive and a no-go option.

You could even add Faction Camo to Rank 20 as part of a revamp, that would be pretty cool for those committed enough to play 1,000s of games. And that is what it takes, 1,000s of games. So a little extra carrot here/there would get people going again with a sense of purpose.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 27 May 2019 - 11:51 PM.

[shaytalis]

justcallme A S H, on 27 May 2019 - 11:47 PM, said:

Making a 'rank 30' could be another idea but I feel that grind would be extremely excessive. You could even add Faction Camo to Rank 20 as part of a revamp, that would be pretty cool for those committed enough to play 1,000s of games. And that is what it takes, 1,000s of games.

I think there should be two things to Loyalty:

1) Gaining ranks, up to level 20.
2) Gaining yearly rewards for that year's activity.

Gaining ranks may only happen once, but the yearly rewards could be a something you earn every year. They could change every year. They could be different depending upon what your level is by the end of the year. It could be a theme based upon the ongoing storyline for the year. It could be different for IS / Clan, or even for each Faction. It could be as important as the Loyalty Mechs are. Something transformative that will drive people to action and say something about the pilot who earns it.

To me this ^^^ sounds fun.

Edited by shaytalis, 27 May 2019 - 11:58 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

That is just over complicating / making a new system.

The existing one, IMO, is good enough. If it simply resets once you max it out. Simple coding win.
It's about the quick/easy wins and that is one of the lowest hanging fruit of wins for sure.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 28 May 2019 - 12:16 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

dario03, on 27 May 2019 - 09:39 PM, said:

If players are so fanatical though then why do they need extra rewards for being a loyalist? If staying pledged to one faction at all times is an option and rewards were set up so they can keep earning as much as someone that moves around, shouldn't that be enough for them to just stay loyal on their own? The people that really really want to be loyal can just not switch even if it is always an option, and the players that want matches can.

Never seen anyone on our TS server say "lets go play cw i need LP". Loyalist didn't show up for rewards and points when we played. We fought to gain planets with zero value at the start. We were told they would have value and even our drop ships would matter.We had those unit coffers for a reason.

From town hall #1 they yell for rewards, people didn't stop playing cw because of rewards. They have kept adding cw rewards and people still stop playing this mode. Its like we went back in time and we learned nothing...

Edited by Monkey Lover, 28 May 2019 - 12:26 AM.

[shaytalis]

justcallme A S H, on 28 May 2019 - 12:13 AM, said:

That is just over complicating / making a new system.

The existing one, IMO, is good enough. If it simply resets once you max it out. Simple coding win.
It's about the quick/easy wins and that is one of the lowest hanging fruit of wins for sure.

I would like to see a solution that does not require the Galaxy Commander III to drop down to a Rank 0 Cadet in order to farm another Mech Bay though. It's not a single player game where replay comes from resetting.

[Monkey Lover]

shaytalis, on 27 May 2019 - 11:54 PM, said:

I think there should be two things to Loyalty:

1) Gaining ranks, up to level 20.
2) Gaining yearly rewards for that year's activity.

Gaining ranks may only happen once, but the yearly rewards could be a something you earn every year. They could change every year. They could be different depending upon what your level is by the end of the year. It could be a theme based upon the ongoing storyline for the year. It could be different for IS / Clan, or even for each Faction. It could be as important as the Loyalty Mechs are. Something transformative that will drive people to action and say something about the pilot who earns it.

To me this ^^^ sounds fun.

If you make it to level 20 how much more stuff do you need? I have so many war horns and mechs i don't even know what to do with them.

How many people have made it to 20 and stopped playing cw because of it? The few i know stopped playing cw because of other reasons.99% never made it to 20.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 28 May 2019 - 12:31 AM.

[shaytalis]

Monkey Lover, on 28 May 2019 - 12:28 AM, said:

If you make it to level 20 how much more stuff do you need? I have so many war horns and mechs i don't even know what to do with them.

How many people have made it to 20 and stopped playing cw because of it? The few i know stopped playing cw because of other reasons.

Well if it's truly not an issue that's fine, but I keep seeing it pop up as an issue in this thread. It's likely that we need a larger sample size to gauge the entire player base.

I'm trying to keep in mind that the whole point of the FP update was an attempt to revitalize and improve FP. The update didn't achieve that, and we're trying to pitch what we feel is missing / would help.

[justcallme A S H]

shaytalis, on 28 May 2019 - 12:24 AM, said:

I would like to see a solution that does not require the Galaxy Commander III to drop down to a Rank 0 Cadet in order to farm another Mech Bay though. It's not a single player game where replay comes from resetting.

After you have earnt it - let you display it - just like any other badge which already exists.

Monkey Lover, on 28 May 2019 - 12:28 AM, said:

How many people have made it to 20 and stopped playing cw because of it? The few i know stopped playing cw because of other reasons.99% never made it to 20.

I know of a few. Granted not a LOT (1000s). Talking maybe 20-30 spread Davion/Steiner and CJF loyalists. But these are your Die-Hard Faction Play players. Those are the ones you want in Faction Play. 10-15 games a day types.

I know many, many more who are Max rank MERC. Talking at least 50 players there including myself and most of the guys I play with regularly (when outside of comp season).

End of the day why not add in a value-add for those that get that far and are committed to the mode. I am sure there are plenty more I do not know about.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 28 May 2019 - 12:43 AM.

[dario03]

shaytalis, on 27 May 2019 - 09:57 PM, said:

The idea is for loyalty to be rewarded and for mercenary behavior to be rewarded, just in different fun ways. You could equally say "if mercenaries like being mercs then why do they need C-Bills?" etc. The rewards are part of the fun.

I don't see why the rewards need to be different for mercs and loyalist to be fun. I also don't see why the game needs to encourage players to pick a side.
Actually seems like if anything it would be better gameplay wise to encourage them not to. But some want to be loyal to one group so I say let them, with the same rewards as everybody else.

shaytalis, on 28 May 2019 - 12:24 AM, said:

I would like to see a solution that does not require the Galaxy Commander III to drop down to a Rank 0 Cadet in order to farm another Mech Bay though. It's not a single player game where replay comes from resetting.

Simple solution, don't reset titles or points. When you max out the reputation you stay rank 20 but you start going through the rewards again. So at 1,060,530 points you get the rank 1 rewards again.

[Monkey Lover]

During the cw beta we played for months in a mix small Loyalist unit teams. Around 100 of us, we all worked together playing long nights to gain few spots here and there. We even worked with out Loyalist Merc groups.

Then came the first CW event, Leader board for factions! This should be fun! Look one for mercs and loyalist- Cool, I was thinking.

Pgi gave a week or two warning so everyone could drop contracts..... The merc groups swarm our faction. Groups I have never seen. Groups that we battled for months against. They then started joining as loyalist . There was nothing to stop them.

After the event ends the mercs take the top spots on the loyalist leaders board. Some of these groups had more members than our whole loyalist faction. Only a few our of teams even made the cut. Even the Merc groups we worked with for months got pushed out of their leader boards.

Loyalist in my view want a faction community, they don't want rewards.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 28 May 2019 - 01:47 AM.

[Van mw]

dario03, on 28 May 2019 - 12:47 AM, said:

I don't see why the rewards need to be different for mercs and loyalist to be fun. I also don't see why the game needs to encourage players to pick a side.
Actually seems like if anything it would be better gameplay wise to encourage them not to. But some want to be loyal to one group so I say let them, with the same rewards as everybody else.

Because loyalists see fun in different things than mercs? So if you are not a fanatical loyalist you are not "in theirs shoes"? Removing the parts those are interesting for the loyalists probably will make them play less, as I see. Is that a gameplay wise approach?

Paul Inouye, on 27 May 2019 - 05:04 PM, said:

Ok... Revision 3.

Talking with an engineer about other stuff.. this came up in conversation and addresses the 'take the stick out of the equation and keep the carrot' feedback.

1) You can pledge loyalty on a Trial basis to anyone.
- You can swap Faction loyalty any time you feel like.
- You earn LP at 100% of normal rate while in Trial.
- You earn LP at 140% of normal rate if you pledge permanent.

How about that?

For me to look for a potential problems of permanent pledge I need to know you vision about unit\member of the unit situation. Does it come back to previous stage (one contract for a unit), remain current (unit does not affect the pilot at all) or has option to change somehow? Because there could a problem with mixed trial/permanent unit members if case of "contract switch".

This is a game, so locking a player "forever" seems too strict. It is hard to get loose the idea of retirement after some time. Does not matter to me what is criteria/fine - 250k LP, 4-6 months of contract, 750 MC (a "generous event" reward).
Maybe this (loyalty break) is a blocker for extra rewards for the loyalist "after" 20 rank - if so please state this. So we can think of compromise. We know much less than you so there are a lot of ideas those looks great in general but too complex/long to implement from my perspective.

Edited by Van mw, 28 May 2019 - 01:52 AM.

[MiZia]

My Thoughts.

Im pretty much FP only player, heck i didnt touch s7 at all
Corrently maxed out Merc Ranks, have to make decisioins on how continue my FP.
TBH i dont want to be restricted to one Faction alone.
At the daytimes i play i have pretty much to change allignement at least 2 times a Day, either to fill opposing grp or to setup one.
I dont care about True Lore, i want to be able to gain Loyality point for whatever Faction i am/have to play with.

One interesting approach i read was to give True Loyalist the ability to Sit in their own Faction and for the duration of a Conflict the ability to get Some LPs if they fight for Allied Factions.
I second that but at same time i would extend this Idea to the IS/Clan conflicts (aka part time Mercenary) in order to be able to partecipate to a given conflict even if u are on the wrong side.