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Dev Update Summary


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#21 Nightbird

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 01:27 AM

View PostKhobai, on 05 June 2019 - 01:19 AM, said:

I didnt say PGI built a venue. i said they created one: mechcon. And yes mechcon cost PGI quite a bit of money. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in fact.

And no it was not an effective use of advertising lmao. It was literally only marketed to people who already knew about MWO.

I feel like I shouldnt have to explain this to you. But the point of advertising is to make people aware of your product who were previously UNAWARE of it. lmao.


Oh noes I need to agree with Khobai, the sky is falling.

No really, if mechcon was for advertising/promotional purposes, than I have a pile of brown goo I have to sell you for the price of gold. You'd basically paying 50$ per Youtube view LMAO!!!

No, Mechcon is basically a party for Battletech fans (read, current customers) to party and have fun. Only, normally, companies don't blow half their annual budget on the party.

(half their annual budget is obviously an exaggeration, but I'm pretty sure that half the profit from selling mechpacks went into this party instead of adding promised content into the game)

#22 50 50

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 01:36 AM

Well it's like any other game specific convention right?
CitizenCon for Star Citizen.
That it's on might generate some additional interest in the IP but otherwise, it's there for the fans.

I am surprised there wasn't some support from the other companies for MechCon though.
For PGI to foot the bill 3 years running.... well done to them.
If it got input and sponsorship from additional sources, that would be brilliant.

Eitherway.
Still playing MWO.
Still looking forward to what we see in the second half of the year.
Still going to enjoy the games and having a blast with the various players online.

#23 Burning2nd

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 02:07 AM

i think mechcon is unrealistic, I do think that championship tournament is good...

Should be more fast pace though

I hate to see you guys bleed out money to try to satisfy such a small group

Tournament online with teams again.. but faster pace

#24 justcallme A S H

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 02:08 AM

View PostKhobai, on 05 June 2019 - 01:19 AM, said:

And no it was not an effective use of advertising lmao. It was literally only marketed to people who already knew about MWO.


Exactly the entire issue with the event being such an expense - it doesn't need to be. It was not promoted properly really. Last year for example it wasn't even organised to be front page on twitch for example. That cost 1,000s of viewers. I think it was down like 4,000 viewers or something. That is significant.

The pods could have been branded "Razer Pods". The Teams could have been sponsored. The event could have had naming rights sponsors. You could even do replays of the World Champs and during it have "Action replay by Logitech"... Then you have all these branding partners that can help you cross-promote as part of the arrangements etc.

There is a lot that could be done to lessen the expense and increase the promotion that was unfortunately missed.

#25 Rekkon

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 06:39 AM

I already set aside vacation time for MechCon, so I am certainly in favor of it happening again. Would most likely buy a tournament supporter pack as well.

The tournament itself was a secondary concern for me, so having it online instead of on-site would not affect my attendance.

#26 JediPanther

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 06:50 AM

I'd vote to go a year with no mech con at all and devote all the resources into mwo as mwo needs it more than a 3 day con. Unless the supporter pack funds go directly into mwo and not just to offset the cost-time-etc of the con. Cons don't happen magically;you need funds and time put into them. I'd rather see mwo get it as it seems to need it more.

#27 Nightbird

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 07:01 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 05 June 2019 - 02:08 AM, said:


Exactly the entire issue with the event being such an expense - it doesn't need to be. It was not promoted properly really. Last year for example it wasn't even organised to be front page on twitch for example. That cost 1,000s of viewers. I think it was down like 4,000 viewers or something. That is significant.

The pods could have been branded "Razer Pods". The Teams could have been sponsored. The event could have had naming rights sponsors. You could even do replays of the World Champs and during it have "Action replay by Logitech"... Then you have all these branding partners that can help you cross-promote as part of the arrangements etc.

There is a lot that could be done to lessen the expense and increase the promotion that was unfortunately missed.


It was sponsored by Nvidia (did you really miss all those logos?) but they're not going to cover the entire cost of the event and most companies only sponsor based on views they can get. For 500 people and 4000 online viewers, it's not even worth the effort to put a logo up.

#28 Bud Crue

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 07:02 AM

View PostTina Benoit, on 04 June 2019 - 02:39 PM, said:

We're highly considering hosting a MechCon 2019, and in that consideration, we'd like to hear the community's interest in it. Note that organizing this event does not interfere with the development of MWO or MW5.


I was up all night making sure my mechpods were ready, so I’m too tired to give the above statement the proper amount of disbelieving snark that it deserves.

#29 Dimento Graven

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 07:33 AM

First 'mech packs: What? Slowing down to devote those resources elsewhere... We were always told 'mech pack development didn't affect the rest of the game development. So this confuses me.

EDIT: And I like new 'mechs...

Second: 'Mech con. I am for it, I was planning on finally attending one this year. I like the MWO community and think it would be a great experience to rub elbows with the other 'big stompy robot nerds'.

As far as an eSport, I don't think it was a bad idea, just poorly implemented and not supported with sufficient advertising (a long standing complaint I've had against how PGI conducts its business) of the game, or the competitions themselves. Without advertising you can't easily recruit "new" customers, nor remind past customers of your continued existence. Considering some of the other games I've watched on the eSports broadcasts on cable TV, I think that MWO would be incredibly interesting (verses watching cars play soccer, or the same ol' 4-on-4 mil-squad sim) and new. You could especially tie in advertising on shows like "Battlebots" and the like.

Yes, it might be expensive (maybe), BUT, short term breath some more life into the game, and long term potentially provide an increase in ARR, which is the life blood of ANY company.

Lastly, the tournaments, yes, I support that (see above), and I totally agree with the NO STOCK BUILD demand. That was stupid.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 05 June 2019 - 07:34 AM.


#30 justcallme A S H

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 07:54 AM

View PostNightbird, on 05 June 2019 - 07:01 AM, said:

they're not going to cover the entire cost of the event


Where did I say cover the entire cost of the event? I never said that.

View PostNightbird, on 05 June 2019 - 07:01 AM, said:

It was sponsored by Nvidia (did you really miss all those logos?)


Do you not understand the difference between logos for donated goods & naming rights sponsorship?

NVidia send up the PCs (which were returned IIRC) and GPUs for winners. And the guys got to keep the Razer gear.

Out of all of the sponsorship monetisation options I listed - not one was actively capitalised upon. There is significant options if you know where/how to do it. Studio tours, official welcome dinner, merchandise (with logos), trade stands - there just added 4 more options. So now up to what, 10 things where the opportunity to monetise was missed.

View PostNightbird, on 05 June 2019 - 07:01 AM, said:

most companies only sponsor based on views they can get. For 500 people and 4000 online viewers, it's not even worth the effort to put a logo up.


Companies sponsor based on value. What and where is the value they are getting. You have to sell it and then make it work. I spend ~30k myself per year on sponsoring various events, clubs, events to promote my businesses and they ALL have far less than MechCon and I get amazing value out of it. Easily 150k in revenue if not more and also - goodwill, something that is hard to value but critically important.

I also had no trouble raising 20k AUD for a 80 entrant / 100 spectator - entry motorsport event. I did that 4 years running no drama some 10 years ago. I actually turned businesses away because there was a hard limit of sponsors per tier. Plenty saw value in it - you just have to sell it. MechCon has more spectators, more attendees in a city with a number of Game Devs.

MechCon itself didn't need to be anywhere near the financial drain it appears to have been for the past few years.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 05 June 2019 - 07:57 AM.


#31 Nightbird

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 07:55 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 05 June 2019 - 07:54 AM, said:

MechCon itself didn't need to be anywhere near the financial drain it appears to have been for the past few years.


Agreed

#32 jss78

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 08:43 AM

What strikes me about the MechCon is, while we have three flagship MW/BT games -- MWO, HBS Battletech, tabletop Battletech -- soon to be joined by MW5:M, the MechCon itself always appeared to be a largely PGI thing with only a small sideshow from HBS and Catalyst.

I wonder if a sustainable concept could be a scaled-down MechCon where HBS and Catalyst play a bigger role. With the resource-intensive MWO live finals cut, but drawing more on the combined player base of all the MW/BT games.

Either way, I'd love to watch the stream also this year (it's alas organized so far away I'm unlikely to ever make it in person).

#33 Dimento Graven

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 08:50 AM

View Postjss78, on 05 June 2019 - 08:43 AM, said:

What strikes me about the MechCon is, while we have three flagship MW/BT games -- MWO, HBS Battletech, tabletop Battletech -- soon to be joined by MW5:M, the MechCon itself always appeared to be a largely PGI thing with only a small sideshow from HBS and Catalyst.

I wonder if a sustainable concept could be a scaled-down MechCon where HBS and Catalyst play a bigger role. With the resource-intensive MWO live finals cut, but drawing more on the combined player base of all the MW/BT games.

...
Actually the best option would be for all three companies to make matching investments in the Con, with equal space/time devoted to each game.

#34 Mad Dog Morgan

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 09:30 AM

IS Omnis would have been inherently bad by virtue that you cannot modify engines, ferro/endo is hardwired and locked to the chassis, and there would be hardwired equipment you couldn't adjust or remove.

They would have to be superquirked to be playable.

Edited by Mad Dog Morgan, 05 June 2019 - 09:30 AM.


#35 GottFaust

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 09:34 AM

View Postjss78, on 05 June 2019 - 08:43 AM, said:

What strikes me about the MechCon is, while we have three flagship MW/BT games -- MWO, HBS Battletech, tabletop Battletech -- soon to be joined by MW5:M, the MechCon itself always appeared to be a largely PGI thing with only a small sideshow from HBS and Catalyst.

I wonder if a sustainable concept could be a scaled-down MechCon where HBS and Catalyst play a bigger role. With the resource-intensive MWO live finals cut, but drawing more on the combined player base of all the MW/BT games.

Either way, I'd love to watch the stream also this year (it's alas organized so far away I'm unlikely to ever make it in person).

The thing is: from what we know nither HBS nor Catalyst contributed any funding to the past MechCons. I imagine they'd have to start contributing in order to have a bigger presence.

Edited by GottFaust, 05 June 2019 - 09:34 AM.


#36 TinFoilHat

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 10:08 AM

Mech packs - I’d be just as happy with releases every two to three months, but I’d need to see a lot more news about development for MWO (planned improvements, features, engine upgrade, etc) and a timeline for said updates before I’d part with any more money.

MechCon - being based across the pond I don’t have the chance to attend in person, but have purchased tournament supporter packs in the past. Again, I would want to see evidence of updates being planned for the game before I would be willing to purchase another pack - give us something tangible to look forward to, and we will support the game.

Faction Play - I get it’s a working project, but it simply shouldn’t have been in this state in the first place. The last patch really hurt an already suffering game mode, and although theres a stance of “we told you we were changing it”, the community had also already voiced their concerns when the draft changes were put out into the open. Mercs don’t want to be locked down to contracts, units don’t want their pilots split amongst different factions, loyalists want to fly their colours and not be forced to pick someone else just to get a drop. This was ignored, and now the price is being paid. I only hope that feedback is truly listened to and taken onboard this time - I don’t know how much more the player base can take being let down.

#37 LTC Kilgore

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 01:27 PM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 05 June 2019 - 01:12 AM, said:


LOL what venue did they build exactly? Any show/expo "creates" their own venue. It is not as if PGI built a building for it out of their own funds. A rented venue just like any other company holding an expo/event.

So of course it was an expense. An expense to promote MWO and other Battletech related stuff (HBS, TableTop, MW5 etc etc), that is all promotional / advertising expenses.

Did they advertise it though? other than to existing MWO customers?

#38 Kageru Ikazuchi

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 03:45 PM

View PostTina Benoit, on 04 June 2019 - 02:39 PM, said:

MechCon and MWO World Championships
We're highly considering hosting a MechCon 2019, and in that consideration, we'd like to hear the community's interest in it. Note that organizing this event does not interfere with the development of MWO or MW5.
MechCon 2019 would be hosted in the same venue as last year, the Vancouver Convention Center at the beginning of December with very similar content to participate in, such as the MW5 Sim Pods, Table Top gaming booth, MWO Solaris, a live stream booth from our Twitch channel, Developer Q&A’s in addition to having special guests in attendance.
However, the catering and the on-site World Championship finals are the only items which we would not repeat this year. That being said, a MWO World Championship is still happening if there is competitive interest for such a tournament in which we would support with Tournament Supporter Packs.
These two items will depend on hearing the community’s interest following this Dev Update

I'd love to attend another MechCon in Vancouver, but it will be unfortunate that I will not likely get the chance to hang out with so many great competitive MechWarriors again.

PGI-hosted World Championships ... yes, even stock mode ... was great entertainment. I look forward to seeing what you come up with (with feedback from the competitive community) to make this year even better. Pencil me in for a Supporter Pack.

#39 ForceUser

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 03:48 PM

First up, I was at last years mechcon. It was one of the single coolest experiences of my life. Now while I have been to comic-cons and geekfests here in south africa, the excuse to also visit Canada was awesome and I would absolutely love for another excuse to go. Give me a confirmed date and I will be there a week before for bar hopping with other Mechwarriors.


Secondly... It's been 7 months but I can recall some comments and talk about some things while I was at the con and there is a lot of misinformation and/or just plain wrong info in the thread, mostly spread by people who are just a little bit too salty. I get that you are angry and lashing out but you are an adult, you are responsible for your actions, not anyone else.

Again, this is from memory but this is accurate to the best of my recollection (I could be wrong but not with malicious intent).

I heard the Con cost around 200k, including the prize money/WC, catering and construction of the pods. From the ticket sales (just over 1k attendees + virtual tickets) they got in about 100k. You might jump on this saying that could have been spent on MWO but I address that later on. Also that's like half of a month's running costs btw. or like, half a new map.

Now if they manage to get similar numbers and cut out the WC/Catering stuff, and the pods are already built, then they can cover the con with little to no monetary input from PGI. Also, with no WC, the con will probably be back to only 1 day, meaning reduced venue costs as well.

As for time investment, while a small number of PGI staff will be involved with the con, very few of PGI's... 70? 90? dev staff involved in the actual development of MWO/MW5 would necessarily be involved past maybe attending over a weekend. So very little to no impact on Development, as Tina said. I believe this is a true statement. Anyone thinking otherwise is maybe a little delusional. I know it's a convenient thing to be salty about but no, it's just not realistic.

Now for some guessing/common sense stuff.

On the matter of HBS/CGL I would have to say that they didn't contribute much if anything to the con (monetarily). If someone has concrete evidence to counter this, please do share, would love to be proven wrong.

The reason why I say this is because while the exposure is nice, it's not tens of thousands of people, it was just one thousand with maybe a few thousand on stream. That said for CGL that's probably a big part of their core audience but for HBS it wouldn't have been a big impact as Battletech Game is a crowdfunded game. Everyone that would know about Mechcon, knows about BTG. Most of their sales would come from steam / paradox / crowdfunding and very few from the con. If CGL wanted to grow their playerbase, they would pay for a spot at a comic or general gaming con as they do.

Also, keep in mind that with PC games the numbers of players and sales are orders of magnitude larger than boardgames will ever be, especially for your more niche stuff. It's probably not as bad as Comicbooks are these days but it's not that big.

If PGI asked HBS or CGL to contribute sizeable amounts to the con (again, possible, but doubtful) then they might have just said, sorry, they simply can't afford it for the return on investment and that would be perfectly understandable. No shade there.

End of the day HBS and CGL participation was effectively 'publicity' PGI 'bought' (not really, more like lost revenue?) as part of MW5 advertisement and to give something back, buying some good will I guess, to the fans attending and watching on stream and to make HBS and TT players aware of MW5. As it's a single player game and not a difficult to get into F2P MMO-lite game it can find an audience with many BTG players.

Advertisement is expensive AF and I can not stress that enough. I doubt PGI would have gotten the same level of exposure from the 100K they spent on MechCon for MW5 if they had spent it straight into traditional advertisement. We are talking about AAA game titles having advertisement campaigns costing tens of millions of dollars, maybe even a hundred million. Usually it outstrips the development cost of most AAA games. The best you can hope for a smaller game/studio is it going viral, but that partly requires a community not up to its eyeballs in salt.

So yes, MechCon did cost them a bit, but in terms of exposure and advertisement for MW5 after the con, it probably helped with things like Articles, Footage, Buzz and pre-orders and even the licensing discussion with MS. It was technically planned as a launch party for MW5 but I think they made the best out of the situation and the (correct) decision to delay the launch.

Edited by ForceUser, 05 June 2019 - 03:54 PM.


#40 justcallme A S H

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 05:30 PM

View PostForceUser, on 05 June 2019 - 03:48 PM, said:

I heard the Con cost around 200k, including the prize money/WC, catering and construction of the pods. From the ticket sales (just over 1k attendees + virtual tickets) they got in about 100k. You might jump on this saying that could have been spent on MWO but I address that later on. Also that's like half of a month's running costs btw. or like, half a new map.


Source for that 200k? That is going to be way, waaaay off the mark.





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