248 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

Weeny Machine, on 09 June 2019 - 04:25 AM, said:

Do you honestly think they will spend any more resources for this game?

No, I want them to understand why people often get frustrated with the matches made. It is because PGI created a MM that basically maximized the number of bad matches.

It's possible to improve on this model if we had more data, but even with just WLR, the bad matches (stomps) get cut in half.

[MrMadguy]

I have very precise personal PSR simulator. Of course I can make full PSR simulation using it. But don't bait me into doing it. I just don't think, that this game is worth wasting my time this way. What would it prove? All problems with current MM are already known. All, it does: 1) Separates experienced players from noobs 2) Gives players illusion of progress. Real MM isn't possible due to too small number of players. Queue times would be too long for minorities, like top Tier 1 players. As I remember, it was their complaints about queue times, that leaded us to removal of WLR MM and implementation of PSR, that looked promising, as it was more like MS TrueSkill, but it was just an illusion.

[Nightbird]

MrMadguy, on 09 June 2019 - 09:42 AM, said:

I have very precise personal PSR simulator. Of course I can make full PSR simulation using it. But don't bait me into doing it. I just don't think, that this game is worth wasting my time this way. What would it prove? All problems with current MM are already known. All, it does: 1) Separates experienced players from noobs 2) Gives players illusion of progress. Real MM isn't possible due to too small number of players. Queue times would be too long for minorities, like top Tier 1 players. As I remember, it was their complaints about queue times, that leaded us to removal of WLR MM and implementation of PSR, that looked promising, as it was more like MS TrueSkill, but it was just an illusion.

LOL, please stop spouting nonsense in this thread. Shoooo shoooo

[LordNothing]

i never needed a matchmaker in the golden era of pc gaming, i think we should get rid of them all together and let the players sort themselves out. get rid of modes too. move everything to private hosts and do a lobby browser. play/create matches that are suitable to what you want to do. if others show up maybe you aren't on an island after all.

Edited by LordNothing, 09 June 2019 - 10:03 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Nightbird, on 09 June 2019 - 09:47 AM, said:

LOL, please stop spouting nonsense in this thread. Shoooo shoooo

Mixing players with different skills, while keeping teams balanced - is what actually already happens now. Please note, that my WLR is almost equal to 1, as it has always been, while all other stats are just terrible. For example my average MS is below stabilization level, i.e. 200. But I've still managed to rise from mid Tier 3 to almost mid Tier 2. So what would we achieve? Remove stomps? Lol. Who'd benefit from it? Higher skill players won't have bad teammates, while other team has good ones? Lower skill players will still have lower quality of game, as higher skill players would still stomp them.

So, there is simple creative solution of this problem. Can't beat team imbalance? Use it!

[Nightbird]

MrMadguy, on 09 June 2019 - 10:00 AM, said:

Who'd benefit from it?

PGI would. Improving quality of matches reduces player frustration and player attrition. If PGI implemented this from day 1 the revenue for the life of this game would have doubled if not more.

This analysis other companies would pay me 25K USD to do for this very reason.

[K O Z A K]

Your dedication to this community is impressive. Full stats case study done for free........and the most f***ed up part is that I bet they won't even look at it

[LordNothing]

Nightbird, on 09 June 2019 - 09:47 AM, said:

LOL, please stop spouting nonsense in this thread. Shoooo shoooo

id even argue that match making in its current form is a placebo and does not actually exist. low population (confirmed by jarls) and release valves (confirmed by pgi) lead to a situation where the mm spends most of its time essentially disabled. throw on there the way psr works as a noob shiled and anyone who has played long enough to get to t1 is pretty much getting random games anyway with the noobs and permabads only getting filtered out at peak times.

Edited by LordNothing, 09 June 2019 - 10:32 AM.

[Nightbird]

LordNothing, on 09 June 2019 - 10:30 AM, said:

id even argue that match making in its current form is a placebo and does not actually exist. low population (confirmed by jarls) and release valves (confirmed by pgi) lead to a situation where the mm spends most of its time essentially disabled. throw on there the way psr works as a noob shiled and anyone who has played long enough to get to t1 is pretty much getting random games anyway with the noobs and permabads only getting filtered out at peak times.

Tiers does do something, it keeps people with fewer games played from people with many games played. That's all. It's NOT a measurement of skill within the group of people with few or more games played.

Edited by Nightbird, 09 June 2019 - 10:43 AM.

[LordNothing]

Nightbird, on 09 June 2019 - 10:42 AM, said:

Tiers does do something, it keeps people with fewer games played from people with many games played. That's all. It's NOT a measurement of skill within the group of people with few or more games played.

yea but my point is that with such low player base its not even doing that much. maybe if you are lucky enough to line up with the na peak time otherwise no the valves are wide open.

[Nightbird]

LordNothing, on 09 June 2019 - 10:58 AM, said:

yea but my point is that with such low player base its not even doing that much. maybe if you are lucky enough to line up with the na peak time otherwise no the valves are wide open.

Now now Lord Nancy, even only looking at the pop on Steam, we still have 300 players playing at the lowest of the lulls. Assuming 150 people are in QP SQ, you can still launch 3 games with the higher experienced pop, 3 games with the lower experienced pop, every 5 minutes.

[LordNothing]

Nightbird, on 09 June 2019 - 11:03 AM, said:

Now now Lord Nancy, even only looking at the pop on Steam, we still have 300 players playing at the lowest of the lulls. Assuming 150 people are in QP SQ, you can still launch 3 games with the higher experienced pop, 3 games with the lower experienced pop, every 5 minutes.

now the second thing bites you in the ***. the lack of meaningful skill ratings. unless you just started playing this is all meaningless. all the juvenile name calling in the world would not help either.

Edited by LordNothing, 09 June 2019 - 11:08 AM.

[Nightbird]

LordNothing, on 09 June 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

now the second thing bites you in the ***. the lack of meaningful skill ratings. unless you just started playing this is all meaningless. all the juvenile name calling in the world would not help either.

I created a thread that proved you can change the MM to improve the quality of matches by 200-300% depending on the graph you want to use. You sir are a negative Nancy.

[LordNothing]

Nightbird, on 09 June 2019 - 11:13 AM, said:

I created a thread that proved you can change the MM to improve the quality of matches by 200-300% depending on the graph you want to use. You sir are a negative Nancy.

and you are an arm chair game dev. i have not said anything negative. only facts that the community has known for years.

[Nightbird]

Even if I created a pill to cure all diseases and old age, I feel like the first thought from your mouth would be: YOU'VE DOOMED HUMANITY!

LordNothing, on 09 June 2019 - 11:16 AM, said:

and you are an arm chair game dev.

Nope, I'm not developing a game. I am creating a model to mirror human behavior, and project the impact of certain decisions. I do this for a living.

Edited by Nightbird, 09 June 2019 - 11:21 AM.

[LordNothing]

games were better before devs started trying to control everything. let players self organize into proper skill levels and decide what they want to do with the game. ridgid mode structures with matchmakers are unnecessarily limiting and any loophole in the system is primed for exploitation. aside from the fact that this has worked well with some very popular arena shooters. you just need a custom games browser and more robust game creation tools, and options and some spit and polish on the game's social features. its also a better way to enter maintenance mode where you dont have to discontinute things like solaris and fp, as you can still play those modes in custom matches.

[Nightbird]

LordNothing, on 09 June 2019 - 11:25 AM, said:

games were better before devs started trying to control everything. let players self organize into proper skill levels and decide what they want to do with the game. ridgid mode structures with matchmakers are unnecessarily limiting and any loophole in the system is primed for exploitation. aside from the fact that this has worked well with some very popular arena shooters. you just need a custom games browser and more robust game creation tools, and options and some spit and polish on the game's social features. its also a better way to enter maintenance mode where you dont have to discontinute things like solaris and fp, as you can still play those modes in custom matches.

Stop posting here

[LordNothing]

Nightbird, on 09 June 2019 - 11:16 AM, said:

Even if I created a pill to cure all diseases and old age, I feel like the first thought from your mouth would be: YOU'VE DOOMED HUMANITY!



Nope, I'm not developing a game. I am creating a model to mirror human behavior, and project the impact of certain decisions. I do this for a living.

at this point im convinced that you are just butthurt because im messing with your thread. you've tried to discredit me with name calling when you cant challenge my position, and now you are trying to claim you have real world experience in this sort of thing. sorry im gonna have to call you out on this one.

and if i didnt already make my case you did it for me by this

Nightbird, on 09 June 2019 - 11:26 AM, said:

Stop posting here

can the narcissism already and grow up.

[Nightbird]

LordNothing, on 09 June 2019 - 11:32 AM, said:

You stated some random opinions, claimed they are true, offered no evidence, and remained disagreeable. Thanks for the bumps but go away

[LordNothing]

Nightbird, on 09 June 2019 - 11:39 AM, said:

You stated some random opinions, claimed they are true, offered no evidence, and remained disagreeable. Thanks for the bumps but go away

so you can make graphs. but the only plan of action you can come up with is to use w/l as the control input. people have been saying that for years, make psr mean something and so on. your analysis while thorough has not revealed any new information that can be used to improve the game. you even shot down somone who had done the same work and come to the same conclusion as you. you are more interested in being right than improving the game.