73 replies to this topic

[Prototelis]

I have a small laser to make pesky lights back up!

[Curccu]

Ken Harkin, on 25 June 2019 - 01:39 PM, said:

TC also speeds up locks. It also improves crit chances.

I have never heard it would give faster locks. Unless you are talking about extreme range IDF locks, but then again tc1 gives ~14m more range so not worth the tonnage imo.

Prototelis, on 25 June 2019 - 01:49 PM, said:

I have a small laser to make pesky lights back up!

Light mechs are afraid of 1 small lazor? Are you talking about infantry?

[Prototelis]

Nnnnnno I have two ATM 9s, two LRM 15s, a streak six and a smolll lazor incase they have ECM.

[FupDup]

Curccu, on 25 June 2019 - 01:51 PM, said:

Light mechs are afraid of 1 small lazor? Are you talking about infantry?

Infantry are definitely not afraid of 1 Small Laser. There are no special BT rules that give it a damage bonus against infantry like the MG or Flamer. The SL can only kill 1 single trooper in a given turn (if it hits), compared to 2-12 kills for a single MG or 4-24 kills for a single Flamer. The SL is nearly useless against infantry in BT.

[Curccu]

FupDup, on 25 June 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

Infantry are definitely not afraid of 1 Small Laser. There are no special BT rules that give it a damage bonus against infantry like the MG or Flamer. The SL can only kill 1 single trooper in a given turn (if it hits), compared to 2-12 kills for a single MG or 4-24 kills for a single Flamer. The SL is nearly useless against infantry in BT.

So about as dangerous against infantry in BT as against light in MWO

[The6thMessenger]

Prototelis, on 25 June 2019 - 01:53 PM, said:

Nnnnnno I have two ATM 9s, two LRM 15s, a streak six and a smolll lazor incase they have ECM.

ReAl BoAtS dOn'T uSe LaZoRs.

[Kubernetes]

Ken Harkin, on 25 June 2019 - 01:39 PM, said:

TC also speeds up locks.

No.

Quote

It also improves crit chances.

No.

Quote

I have no idea what you mean with this statement. The combination of LRM+A and ATM is pretty damn good.

You've taken one of the premier brawler chassis in the game and turned it into an abomination. Your misunderstanding of what TCs do makes total sense now.

[Kroete]

Mok______, on 25 June 2019 - 07:15 AM, said:

All I hear is:

"Hey you guys get out there and get shot at so I can fire all these locked-on guided missiles from the safety of cover and steal kills and get lots of damage points for hiding. Oh yeah, I am also in an assault and will not be sharing armor with you."

If you would have played lrm boats seriously,
you would know that you get around 3 kmdd for every kill with a lrm boat (Whos the killstealer?).
You would also know that you never spend more then 1/3 of you ammo for indirect use,
if there is no dedicated spotter or narc.

And why do you talk about "killstealing" in a team game where the team needs to kill the enemy team to win?
The only and real stat in a team game is W/L, the rest is just epeening.

Edited by Kroete, 25 June 2019 - 11:13 PM.

[General Solo]

Hold Locks is a code word for meat shield reporting for duty

[Kotzi]

You do know that keeping a lock on the target lights them up on the map for your teammates? Or knowing which part to shoot at. But who needs that right? There should be no need to tell people to targetlock the enemy. But thats only if you want to raise your chances for victory. If you are more concerned on your KD then screw those killstealers asking for holding a lock. All dem targets are mine. Reminds me of those precious teammates saying, "Well, we lost big time, but i got my kills at least." Hold R for teamplay, or not.

[Mok______]

Kroete, on 25 June 2019 - 10:58 PM, said:

If you would have played lrm boats seriously,
you would know that you get around 3 kmdd for every kill with a lrm boat (Whos the killstealer?).
You would also know that you never spend more then 1/3 of you ammo for indirect use,
if there is no dedicated spotter or narc.

And why do you talk about "killstealing" in a team game where the team needs to kill the enemy team to win?
The only and real stat in a team game is W/L, the rest is just epeening.

For the first part of this, I do not play with handicap type weapons. I prefer to engage my enemy directly. You know, actually aiming and timing my shots? Not hiding in the back demanding those that are actually in the fight to do my targeting for me.

For the second part, well, team work is so rare in this game. Usually reserved for group play. When you actually have a 'team' for some team play. However, there are those golden moments when the MM puts some players together that work as a team. But, those moments a far and few between, sadly.

QP is a chaotic mess of thirsty mech pilots that will screw you over to get the kill. Most of them do not even bother with whatever objective the mode calls for. They do not care about the team nor their team mates. It is just a bunch of maniacs trying to get the killing blow. LuRMers are no exception.

As for the only real stat in this game? Sure, I can agree with you on that. But that does not change the fact that players are focused on getting the kill themselves. It may be a useless stat and should not matter because the 'team' won, but everyone likes to see they have some kills. Killing is the motivator of this game. Not the idea of a team win.

[Kroete]

Mok______, on 26 June 2019 - 01:18 AM, said:

As for the only real stat in this game? Sure, I can agree with you on that. But that does not change the fact that players are focused on getting the kill themselves. It may be a useless stat and should not matter because the 'team' won, but everyone likes to see they have some kills. Killing is the motivator of this game. Not the idea of a team win.

Please talk about yourself and not for other players.

If you would be right, there would be no lrms boats, narc ravens or ams-foxes,
but there are still some players in qp that play for the team and win.

But i know that "going for the kill" players,
they often throw matches because they try to kill weaponless enemys
or hunt a squirrel over the whole map.

Edited by Kroete, 26 June 2019 - 03:24 AM.

[General Solo]

Kotzi, on 26 June 2019 - 12:15 AM, said:

You do know that keeping a lock on the target lights them up on the map for your teammates? Or knowing which part to shoot at. But who needs that right? There should be no need to tell people to targetlock the enemy. But thats only if you want to raise your chances for victory. If you are more concerned on your KD then screw those killstealers asking for holding a lock. All dem targets are mine. Reminds me of those precious teammates saying, "Well, we lost big time, but i got my kills at least." Hold R for teamplay, or not.

I press R by instinct, its like wired to my nervous system. If the missile guys can use it fine but I am not gonna take damage to hold their lock when their behind me not sharing their armour.

[General Solo]

Mok______, on 26 June 2019 - 01:18 AM, said:

..... Most of them do not even bother with whatever objective the mode calls for.....

I disagree as the objective is to win.
Those OTHER SO CALLED OBJECTIVES are actually winning conditions mislabeled as Objectives.

Because we not on a mission where you win by objective.

You Win or lose

Determined by which team meets the winning conditions which are meet OBJECTIVE or WIPE ENEMY TEAM

Both are winning conditions but only one is OBJECTIVE, thats how PGI made the game.

WIPE ENEMY TEAM seems to be empirically speaking the better winning condition, compared to aka objectives

[Vincent DIFrancesco]

As an occasional LRM driver, my opinion on other people holding locks is... *shrug* whatever.

I tend to prefer direct shots, especially now, when the missiles actually work better firing directly. So I usually get my own locks anyway. However, I also try to carry enough ammo so that I can blow shots on indirect targets while I try to position, or stay out of the way of teammates in position. They'll either lock their targets or they won't. If they would like me to assist in softening up their targets that I can't get a clear LOF to they'll lock them up and I'll help them out. If they don't, *shrug*, I'll just find other targets.

If you want missile support, lock up guys while you're fighting them. If not, don't. To me, though, it seems like a no-brainer to want more people shooting at your target than less. But YMMV.

[Lykaon]

Foxwalker, on 24 June 2019 - 07:58 PM, said:

No, Hold locks and target (hit R) are not the same thing. Sorry we just don't agree. I have been here a long time too. I get the difference between holding a lock and hitting R. Holding a lock implies over time. Yes some players don't hit R or Target. I even point it out. Just semantics I guess.

Understand, most mechs that poke and snipe or drop to cover do it to survive. I play all classes and each has their role. Just my 2 cents.

I am simply wondering why it's unacceptable for a team mate to request that you attempt to optimize your mech's targeting for the benefit of team play.

Asking to hold locks is not the same as asking to face the enemy stand still and press R until you're blown to bits so I can lob a couple of lurm volleys before you die.

It comes down to this very simple principle.

There is an assumption that a player using LRMs is somehow not a team player or contributing to the team's victory.
Players assume the following.

They won't "share armor"
They will not be present on the front to increase the enemy's target perception (the Oh crap we are out numbered factor)
The LRM user is lazy
The LRM user going to sit way in the back and "pad" their score with meaningless damage.

Yet somehow the very same players who complain about these LRM behaviors take no issue with "sniper" mechs doing pretty much the exact same thing.

I recently played in a match where the last mech we took out from the enemy team was a stealth Fafnir with quad light gauss.

I saw this mech early on I called out it's position and most if not all of my team were aware of where it was. The Fafnir was killed last because unlike the other assault mechs on the front it wasn't as dangerous or even invoked the perception of being more dangerous.

No doubt the pilot's choice to park way in the back and "snipe" directly contributed to the concentration of fire upon his team mates that were present in the main fight. He didn't share armor or present or project a presence on the battlefield to discourage the enemy from executing a bold attack. All that Fafnir was was a sidenote to watch Delta 3 for the stealth Fafnir and pick it off last.

Essentially they were exactally like an assault LRM boat that sits in the back and lobs indirect fire all match except it lacked the versetility of having indirect fire capabilities. One could argue that the Fafnir should have instead been an LRM boat and it would have contributed more.

But LRM boats are filthy rotten lock beggers but snipers are A-OK!

[Lykaon]

The6thMessenger, on 24 June 2019 - 08:01 PM, said:

Here's the thing, even if players manage not to get locks before shooting -- hell that is what happens when every single one is a poke-fader, at least they still manage to have a decent contribution, because they don't need locks to land an effective blow. Lrms are a different story, unless someone's standing still or repeatedly looking out on the very same firing spot over and over, no you can't dumbfire LRMs expecting that they will hit someone with good effect.

Sure, if someone said "hold locks pls", it could be just people reminding to lock, but chances are, with what we've seen, it's an incompetent background lurmer wanting to sit on their *** all day and lurm from the safety of their graves.

You could be in a good spot to put UAV -- but people wouldn't say "Hold-Locks-Pls", there's a clearer way to say this like "Put UAV on (area)", or just go use the BattleGrid to mark the area you want UAV covered.

As to the "hold-locks" for the lights, they will do so if they are built for scouting. Why would you need to ask them to do so if they are built differently? You got raven with NARC, why would you have to ask them Piranhas with MGs, Commandos with SRMs, Locusts with SPLs, etc. to hold locks? They weren't built to scout, they were built to hit and run which involves kiting enemies, and then retreating back into cover where they couldn't get Locks because they wouldn't have LOS.



So why would we instead follow that LRM player's idea of team-work?



It's funny how you feel so defensive about it that you have to point it out.

"here's the thing" I know how LRMs work and I know how poke and fade combatabts "hold locks" I just think many players who become offended by a request to "hold locks" jump to the worse possible interpretation of the request instead of seeing it as a simple notification that there may be additional supporting fire if you remember to hold a lock when you can.

Instead players jump off the rails and assume the LRM user is demanding you poke your face out in the open and stare down the enemy team so they can maybe fire two volleys off before you're smoked.

And as you said... "Sure, if someone said "hold locks pls", it could be just people reminding to lock, but chances are, with what we've seen, it's an incompetent background lurmer wanting to sit on their *** all day and lurm from the safety of their graves."

You also come to those conclusions.


And why would we instead follow the LRM player's idea of team work? Well let's break this down into bite sized portions for everyone.

Unless you are playing in a 12 player group you can not choose what your team has assigned to it.

LRMs have an additional capability of using friendly locks to utilize indirect fire. This is a capability of the weapon system and as such indirect fire enhances the versitility of that weapon.

Since you can not always control if LRMs end up on your team what is more benificial...

A: refusing to assist (when able) to utilize the full utility of a team mate's weapons. ie. not pressing R

B: being aware that there are LRMs on your team and actively looking for a way to leverage them to your team's advantage. ie. cooperating with the LRM team mate.

Since there isn't a choice as to what equipment your team has available and you now have some LRMs should you maybe think about how to use that asset instead of browbeating and preaching and in general wasting time and blocking up the comm channel with a disertation on "why asking please hold locks" is tantamount to saying go kill yourselves for my amusement.

[Surn]

UAV are life

A well placed UAV informs your team how to play according to their own specific tactics.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Surn, on 26 June 2019 - 08:25 AM, said:

UAV are life

A well placed UAV informs your team how to play according to their own specific tactics.

eh.. in what universe?
no matter what that uav may tell, what everybody understands is: "rotate faster, yay nascar".

[General Solo]

Lykaon, on 26 June 2019 - 05:28 AM, said:

I am simply wondering why it's unacceptable for a team mate to request that you attempt to optimize your mech's targeting for the benefit of team play.

Its not and if theorycrafting sounds good.

But in reality one trick lerm boat users are a breed of their own with their own rules, which are more take than give.
Thats the fact
Hey you may be different but after 50K games I see a pattern.

So you can use those facts to your own and the teams benefit or the Lerm boat whose not drawing agro, your tanking his fire for him.

Just had a game were this good pilot was carrying hard as the team wasnt so good, a real see saw.
Two left, this good pilot and the Lerm boat.
Well the Lerm boat died last and we lost, I thought meatshield that lrm boat harder dude FTW.

A common story

FTW

But people are inflexable, dont wanna meatshield coz people say mean things

You have two guys left one 90% Jarls with Clan UAC meta or other 50% Jarls with Lerms
who should be active longer to maximise teams chance of win sucess
who should be last standing if choice presents

What do we call this?
Meatshield?

I say FTW, they get extra 50K bonus anyway if the team wins, together, carry or clutch

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 27 June 2019 - 12:10 AM.