120 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

Tesunie, on 01 July 2019 - 09:19 AM, said:

Though it may not be as valid as it once was, but I might make mention that at one point the meta build for a Raven (a light mech, FYI) was dual ERLL and to snipe at long range with ECM. This became a meta for a while because it was effective, and it could win games. So, it is/was possible in this game to utilize a long range light mech to achieve a reasonable W/L rate. (Now I believe this build has moved over to triple LL, which I've been seeing here or there.)

This has no indication on rather you have done (or do) this actively or in the past.


Also, as far as W/L rate is concerned, some of this can be reliant on what game mode you play in, whom your teammates are, etc. I'm also going to go out on a limb here and say that you mean it's difficult to get a W/L greater than 1 in a long range light mech, when looking at said specific light mech's stats. Going by overall player stats would have to assume that said player only used X mech/build, which is typically false.

(Also, wasn't it at one point mentioned on these vast forums that it was okay for a light mech to fill the role of sniping, because you've at least pulled the least amount of tonnage/armor out of the armor sharing pool, compared to other class mechs being a sniper? It was a valid strategy at one point. I believe it still is, though better strategies for lights (along with different options) are now available than previously.)

It's not meta, it's DPS is still too low to win more games than it loses

Armored Yokai, on 01 July 2019 - 09:25 AM, said:

Why make it harder for your allies? Assuming you want to deny this for your team, It will be harder to win when you are 1v2 and for some reason the lrms can't be lobbed at your target to save you in that 1v2?

When I want to know a target's loadout and paper doll, I target them for 5 seconds, and after the info pops up and the missile icon appears, I press R to break the lock.

[Armored Yokai]

Nightbird, on 01 July 2019 - 09:31 AM, said:

When I want to know a target's loadout and paper doll, I target them for 5 seconds, and after the info pops up and the missile icon appears, I press R to break the lock.

I can understand if you are actually seeking out targets, but do you do this when something is in the open or do you still un-target it?

[Nightbird]

Armored Yokai, on 01 July 2019 - 09:34 AM, said:

I can understand if you are actually seeking out targets, but do you do this when something is in the open or do you still un-target it?

I still un-target it.

I only hold locks if I feel it is necessary for winning a match (i.e. we're down in kills), otherwise, I don't.

[Tesunie]

Armored Yokai, on 01 July 2019 - 09:25 AM, said:

Why make it harder for your allies? Assuming you want to deny this for your team, It will be harder to win when you are 1v2 and for some reason the lrms can't be lobbed at your target to save you in that 1v2?

This only turns off the auto-lock feature. Any player with this line in their cfg file could still manually lock by pressing R (or whatever button they assigned acquiring locks to). It would have no real impact on a player's performance unless they are one who never manually gets locks.

[Tesunie]

Nightbird, on 01 July 2019 - 09:31 AM, said:

It's not meta, it's DPS is still too low to win more games than it loses

It's not meta anymore, is more so my point. At one point, it was one of the go to light mechs to take. Low DPS or not, at that point and time in the game it was a meta. They were eveywere. Everywere enough to have it become a champion mech.

[Tarl Cabot]

Armored Yokai, on 01 July 2019 - 09:34 AM, said:

I can understand if you are actually seeking out targets, but do you do this when something is in the open or do you still un-target it?

There have been times when there are no other targets to lock except for the mech in front of you and they are rained/attempted rained down by LRMS and getting the missile lock warnings, then they start looking for a pesky light/med to the rear area. Many LRM boaters tend to stay to their own rear and do not get their own locks, nor do many pay attention to the actual location of a targeted mech, they simply start firing massed LRMS.

And have a lock on a target at times can be detrimental due to squirrel hunting syndrome, leading to unnecessary nascaring. Having the ability to turn off auto-lock could also be beneficial for a time.

As for the Raven, it is not meta may be due to games becoming more middle/short range, thus not providing ENOUGH time for said builds to be effective. Never mind those players who love chasing down Long Range equipped mechs, along by themselves. Never mind it can be quite boring, better off with a Cheetah w/ECM AND JJ while equipped with ERLLs. Still have to worry about the short range lights, the massed MG setups that are faster and JJ-capable. They become much less effective because there are effective counters that can take them out without sweating.

[Nightbird]

Tesunie, on 01 July 2019 - 09:47 AM, said:

It's not meta anymore, is more so my point. At one point, it was one of the go to light mechs to take. Low DPS or not, at that point and time in the game it was a meta. They were eveywere. Everywere enough to have it become a champion mech.

lol you mean when the game was in beta?

Edited by Nightbird, 01 July 2019 - 10:02 AM.

[draiocht]

[mod]Due to discussion toward griefing,
this thread has been moved to Kaetetôã.[/mod]

[Tesunie]

Nightbird, on 01 July 2019 - 10:02 AM, said:

lol you mean when the game was in beta?

Not sure. It has been a few years since that build was popular, I'll give that. I'm just saying that, at one point in the game's life sniping lights was a thing. Now, the game's changed some and the play styles and strategies are different today. I believe the ER Raven was popular back when the clans first got introduced. Between their ECM and long ranges, they could compete with the clans at range, while hiding behind ridges and using distance, small target and high mounted weapon mounts to their advantage.

Now, that strategy has been overshadowed by lights that can either pack SRMs or MGs for the most part, or can boat massive numbers of smaller lasers. I'm just saying that at one point it was possible, and still could be depending upon team composition, skill levels of players involved, etc. I mean, I achieved a match score of 500 and many kills on a T5 new account with a stock champion 2 ERLL Raven 3L (and then bumped the account right to T4 from it's first match). A lot needs to be considered with some of these "broad brush stroke descriptions" being tossed around.

On average, I'm inclined to agree with you about sniping lights, they typically do not function as they once did in this game like they once use to.

[Xiphias]

Nightbird, on 01 July 2019 - 10:02 AM, said:

lol you mean when the game was in beta?

There was a point when the 3L with 2xERLL could be considered meta. While engagement ranges played a roll, it was more the inflation of speed/damage that ran it out of favor. Back when the meta assault was the highlander with 2xPPC/2xUAC5 the biggest alpha you would expect to see was 40. Having a light being able to put out 20 at long ranges (with mechs being slower and not as able to chase) was actually viable. The introduction of fast/higher alpha mechs (i.e.clans) increased the DPS that was on the field (giving the Raven less time to do damage) and made it harder to keep distance and kite (heavy/medium mechs running faster).

It hasn't been meta for a long time (though the 3LL 2X was amazing for awhile, particularly in FP), but it definitely had a brief window when it was viable. Too much speed/DPS for sniping lights to be viable now except in very specific cases.

[Tesunie]

Xiphias, on 01 July 2019 - 12:55 PM, said:

The introduction of fast/higher alpha mechs (i.e.clans) increased the DPS that was on the field (giving the Raven less time to do damage) and made it harder to keep distance and kite (heavy/medium mechs running faster).

Don't forget about the dual CERLL Arctic Cheetah as well that made an appearance in the meta for a while...

Edit: And the ERPPC Spider that came about for a very short while (not really meta).

Edited by Tesunie, 01 July 2019 - 01:16 PM.

[Phoolan Devi]

Nightbird, on 01 July 2019 - 08:45 AM, said:

Nope, anyone that tries will get less than 1 WLR, and is being a nuisance non-contributor to their team. Like LRM boats

You know exactly that your statement is wrong!

[Xiphias]

Tesunie, on 01 July 2019 - 01:13 PM, said:

Don't forget about the dual CERLL Arctic Cheetah as well that made an appearance in the meta for a while...

Edit: And the ERPPC Spider that came about for a very short while (not really meta).

While I ran the ERLL Cheetah some and had some good matches with it, I wouldn't really call it meta. It was pretty broken on HPG with the wall though. Also, the panther could carry it's own weight at times too:

Spoiler

[Phoolan Devi]

Nightbird, on 01 July 2019 - 09:31 AM, said:

It's not meta, it's DPS is still too low to win more games than it loses



When I want to know a target's loadout and paper doll, I target them for 5 seconds, and after the info pops up and the missile icon appears, I press R to break the lock.

Nightbird, on 01 July 2019 - 09:39 AM, said:

I still un-target it.

Yeah...that's what Jarls list tells about your play style!

[Feral Clown]

Phoolan Devi, on 01 July 2019 - 01:59 PM, said:

Yeah...that's what Jarls list tells about your play style!

I am really curious to exactly how you are interpreting the info about Nightbird from the Jarl's List?

[Prototelis]

Lol. This thread is a gold mine.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 01 July 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

If I had put that in the OP, the amusement value of this thread would have been adversely impacted.

Don't you think it would be funnier if you stopped locking as soon as the LRM-boat actually launched their missiles? I mean if you were really just into pissing LRM-boats off, nothing like someone ranting in the coms with "hold locks" "hold locks".

Vellron2005, on 01 July 2019 - 04:12 AM, said:

1)You said it yourself - And according to this, if you disable it, you're disabling a disadvantage.. it's just like when you go into super-low visual settings, so you don't get grass, smoke and fog that obscure your vision.. It's gaining an unfair advantage, and therefore not ok.

You do realize that I was implying that disabling it is a disadvantage right?

Likewise, really, are you really going to compare borderline wall-hack to simply not pinging the enemy? Pathetic.

Vellron2005, on 01 July 2019 - 04:12 AM, said:

2) It's counter productive to your team, since it's not the point of the game to get solo kills and personal glory, but to win and kill all the enemies, and since you are willingly not sharing automated locks, you are effectively aiding the enemy, which is a reportable offense and a COC violation. So when you do this, you are no better than a lurmer standing 900m back and not doing anything, that you hate so much.

I agree that it's counter productive, but if that's your description of aiding the enemy (just as messed up with your definition of bullying), where are the background lurmers that are being banned if they are the same case?

If they were being banned, this goes all away, if not, too bad.

Vellron2005, on 01 July 2019 - 04:12 AM, said:

3) On the count of "some lurmer stealing your kill", the tables can be easily reversed. Lurmers normally get tons of KMDDs, but few solo kills, because "some light" or "some facehugger" steals their kill... and yet, you don't hear many lurmers being all pissy about this.. In fact, most good lurmers are happy to make your target softer so you can take the kill and bring the target down quicker. So OP being all bend out of shape for a lurmer taking the kill is just pure greed and selfishness - no team play at all.

Oh wow, you're lurming from behind while making your team take all the hits for you, you're no better than the snipers you're ranting about before, but hey at least they're nailing their shot -- hell even LRMs used in LOS are doing better than IDF ones.

You know what is team-play with Lurms? If there's a dedicated spotter, if not, it's just the background lurmer leeching for locks. The idea of team-play is the team being in the same page with your tactics, it's being on the same page. If you're just indiscriminately looking for locks, while the team is taking the heat for you, guess what, that's not teamplay, that's parasitism.

Again, don't get me wrong, I don't condone the hate-*****, but seriously what you are elaborating is quite literally no better, and in fact worse.

Vellron2005, on 01 July 2019 - 04:12 AM, said:

You can say what you will, but the above is simple fact.

Say what you will, but above isn't fact, and what you're doing is pathetic.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 02 July 2019 - 01:38 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

so it finally arrived in the fun-place, in Kaetetôã

I want more ^^

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 02 July 2019 - 05:06 AM.

[Phoolan Devi]

Feral Clown, on 01 July 2019 - 08:55 PM, said:

I am really curious to exactly how you are interpreting the info about Nightbird from the Jarl's List?

What are you curious about exactly?

[Vincent DIFrancesco]

Nightbird, on 27 June 2019 - 04:49 PM, said:

Someone who yells 'hold locks!' spotted

Sorry, I just finally got around to seeing this about me. Apologies for the late delay.

"Someone who yells 'hold locks!' spotted" lol

Sorry, I graduated from "LRM A**hole" to "Streak A**hole." I have to get my own locks.

Edited by Vincent DIFrancesco, 16 July 2019 - 11:22 AM.