46 replies to this topic

[Skippy The Danger Squirrel]

I have just about had my fill with PGI and the LOW nerf. Especially the way they have crippled the targeting mechanics.

Game after game, I'm out there blazing away with maximum sensor quirks, BAP, TAG and every other aid available in the game, with the same poor results.

If the target moves behind a twig; line of sight is broken, target lock is lost. If it drifts behind a building; target lock is lost. If the mech is HALF EXPOSED over a hill or behind a building; target lock is lost. If someone on the enemy team has ECM anywhere on the map; target lock is lost. I shoot you with TAG, gain a lock and the wind blows outside; target lock is lost. The only way to use the stupid LOW is to stand in the middle of the grid, face tank the enemy and hope you get a lock and launch, before they core you out with RACs.

This attempt to "balance" the game has only resulted in a more frustrating experience for anyone dumb enough to use LOW.

Or, if you insist that "everything is awesome", how about introducing MRM for Clan? At least we can have a point and shoot weapon, like the IS....

[Nightbird]

It's called LOS Line of Sight

[Prototelis]

WTF is LOW targeting?

[Skippy The Danger Squirrel]

Yup. Right up until they walk behind a light pole on Mining Collective, or they waddle behind a low structure on HPG manifold. You can still SEE the target, but because PGI nerfed the targeting mechanics into uselessness, they may as well be full stealth because - oops. Target lock lost, your Streaks just sailed into the side of a building.

There are no counters, either. Maximum sensor quirks do nothing. BAP does nothing. TAG only helps if you have UNOBSTRUCTED LOS. The only way to be effective is to stand in the middle and face tank. With the slowest firing weapons in the game.

Prototelis, on 26 June 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

WTF is LOW targeting?

Lock On Weapons - Streak SRM, LRM and ATM.

[RickySpanish]

Oh my RACs to the face, the absolutely most perfect way for any lurmer to die - slowly, surely, and in a profound state of confusion.

[Skippy The Danger Squirrel]

And with enhanced ECM and maximum radar deprivation, you may as well be stealth, because there's no way to get or maintain target lock, once you break LOS.

It's funny, because LRM highlands has now become long range NASCAR. You don't see LRMs any more because they're impossible to play.

[Skippy The Danger Squirrel]

RickySpanish, on 26 June 2019 - 10:13 AM, said:

Oh my RACs to the face, the absolutely most perfect way for any lurmer to die - slowly, surely, and in a profound state of confusion.

Therein lies the problem. PGI decided to lure the LRMers out of hiding by making indirect fire impossible to achieve. Well, they succeeded.... But they also affected SSRM and ATM players too. Given the exceptionally slow rate of fire and excessive cool down, the risk/reward for that weapon's use just isn't there. I'd rather turn the corner, unleash and MRM40 barrage and follow it up with some lasers, than stand in the middle of the street on Solaris City and WAIT for a lock...

It's an unfortunate part of the game that just isn't viable anymore, thanks to the nerf.

[RickySpanish]

Skrapiron, on 26 June 2019 - 10:17 AM, said:

Therein lies the problem. PGI decided to lure the LRMers out of hiding by making indirect fire impossible to achieve. Well, they succeeded.... But they also affected SSRM and ATM players too. Given the exceptionally slow rate of fire and excessive cool down, the risk/reward for that weapon's use just isn't there. I'd rather turn the corner, unleash and MRM40 barrage and follow it up with some lasers, than stand in the middle of the street on Solaris City and WAIT for a lock...

It's an unfortunate part of the game that just isn't viable anymore, thanks to the nerf.

I can't speak for ATMs or LRMs, but Streaks are still very effective. My Pakhet gets me 500 ms games more often than any other 'Mech, and I don't have trouble locking on to opponents.

[Bud Crue]

Skrapiron, on 26 June 2019 - 10:13 AM, said:

It's funny, because LRM highlands has now become long range NASCAR. You don't see LRMs any more because they're impossible to play.

Really?

I mean, I am not a good player by any stretch, and I only have like three mechs with LRMS, but I am thinking seriously of changing some of my scores of MRM builds to use LRMs instead. Example: I recently tried a 6ML, LRM40 Tempest and I was pretty surprised that I did just as good as my MRM60 4ML build. Polar to mining, Old Frozen to new. It worked pretty damn good even with sensor tree not optimized. The ability to direct fire LRMS with LOS has been a real boon for me and my "I will brawl no matter what and pull the trigger even when I shouldn't," less than competent play style. Then, in those rare times when I haven't yet done something stupid, and recognize that I need to poke in order to not die outright, mixed direct and indirect LRMing is still plenty effective from under 500M.

[Prototelis]

Lock on weapons are fine.

Your post is 99% hyperbole.

[VonBruinwald]

Skrapiron, on 26 June 2019 - 10:13 AM, said:

And with enhanced ECM and maximum radar deprivation, you may as well be stealth, because there's no way to get or maintain target lock, once you break LOS.

Radar Derp needs to have a cap of 80% instead of 100%.

As it stands it completely nullifies Target Decay when maxed. That means a player whose invested those nodes and taken a 'mech with further buffs is completely countered and wasted their points.

There's a reason Flamers cap heat at 90% and knock down was removed. Negative mechanics a player has no way to mitigate aren't fun.

[dario03]

Need to rebalance streaks before buffing any lock on mechanics. Probably need to look at atms too, since they can already do tons of damage so buffing them might not be a great idea.

[Gladiolix]

Just played lurms in QP for the first time in a long time and two matches with both over 800 damage proves to me that theyre very fine their current position.

[thievingmagpi]

Buff lock on weapons lmao

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Nightbird, on 26 June 2019 - 10:02 AM, said:

It's called LOS Line of Sight

sorry to correct you, but in this case it's LOH.
Line-of-Hide.

@OP
sorry, but my lurmers are doing better than ever, and are way more flexible to use on top. not sayin you're doing something wrong, but.. well, maybe I do say that

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 27 June 2019 - 05:14 AM.

[Verilligo]

Skrapiron, on 26 June 2019 - 09:51 AM, said:

I have just about had my fill with PGI and the LOW nerf. Especially the way they have crippled the targeting mechanics.

Game after game, I'm out there blazing away with maximum sensor quirks, BAP, TAG and every other aid available in the game, with the same poor results.

If the target moves behind a twig; line of sight is broken, target lock is lost. If it drifts behind a building; target lock is lost. If the mech is HALF EXPOSED over a hill or behind a building; target lock is lost. If someone on the enemy team has ECM anywhere on the map; target lock is lost. I shoot you with TAG, gain a lock and the wind blows outside; target lock is lost. The only way to use the stupid LOW is to stand in the middle of the grid, face tank the enemy and hope you get a lock and launch, before they core you out with RACs.

This attempt to "balance" the game has only resulted in a more frustrating experience for anyone dumb enough to use LOW.

Or, if you insist that "everything is awesome", how about introducing MRM for Clan? At least we can have a point and shoot weapon, like the IS....

Do you think, perhaps, you may just not be very good with lock-on weapons? Do you really believe you would do that much better if you had a Clan MRM? Why not just use IS MRMs and IS mechs? What about non-missile weapons?

[Skippy The Danger Squirrel]

VonBruinwald, on 26 June 2019 - 01:12 PM, said:

Radar Derp needs to have a cap of 80% instead of 100%.

As it stands it completely nullifies Target Decay when maxed. That means a player whose invested those nodes and taken a 'mech with further buffs is completely countered and wasted their points.

There's a reason Flamers cap heat at 90% and knock down was removed. Negative mechanics a player has no way to mitigate aren't fun.

That is my biggest complaint about the current targeting mechanics. The radar counters are TOO effective. I just finished a match of River City where I managed a meager 420 dmg with 7 assists. My SSRM were nullified by the radar derp and ECM, even around the low buildings. I can't dumb fire them like I can LRMs which made me rather useless to the team. If I can't get a lock inside of 200m, or maintain that lock with max sensor quirks and BAP in that situation, what is the point of the sensor skills tree???

I went back and played some LRMs this morning as well, same result. On Mining Collective, I can't get direct LOS targets, because everyone crowds up top and then hide behind buildings. So I have to sit and wait for an indirect lock, even though I'm up top and 300m from the target below me AND I CAN SEE THE TOP OF THEIR TORSO.

[Skippy The Danger Squirrel]

Verilligo, on 27 June 2019 - 06:03 AM, said:

Do you think, perhaps, you may just not be very good with lock-on weapons? Do you really believe you would do that much better if you had a Clan MRM? Why not just use IS MRMs and IS mechs? What about non-missile weapons?

The problem is the mechanics that PGI uses to define "line of sight". If you are say, on Mining collective in an Atlas and standing by a low building where I can see your upper torso, to the game, the lock is considered "indirect" as you are partially obscured. I can physically see you, but the lock-on takes several seconds, if the lock comes at all.

With dumb fire missiles like standard SRMs and MRMs, I can point and shoot. If any part of you is exposed, I can hit it. You don't get that with LOCK ON weapons at all.

Then there's the 100% radar derp, where you can disappear from targeting all together once you break line of sight. It doesn't matter what sensor quirks or targeting aids I mount on the mech, poof. you are gone. And with PGI's rather liberal interpretation of Line Of Sight, I can lose lock when you run behind a light pole....

[Verilligo]

Skrapiron, on 27 June 2019 - 06:21 AM, said:

The problem is the mechanics that PGI uses to define "line of sight". If you are say, on Mining collective in an Atlas and standing by a low building where I can see your upper torso, to the game, the lock is considered "indirect" as you are partially obscured. I can physically see you, but the lock-on takes several seconds, if the lock comes at all.

With dumb fire missiles like standard SRMs and MRMs, I can point and shoot. If any part of you is exposed, I can hit it. You don't get that with LOCK ON weapons at all.

Then there's the 100% radar derp, where you can disappear from targeting all together once you break line of sight. It doesn't matter what sensor quirks or targeting aids I mount on the mech, poof. you are gone. And with PGI's rather liberal interpretation of Line Of Sight, I can lose lock when you run behind a light pole....

I can't say that I have had similar experiences with holding locks. Whether partial or full exposure, I have generally been able to get and keep locks, however I tend to only use such weapons with more maneuverable mechs. Which mechs are you primarily running and with what setup? Your stats seem to show you primarily run heavies and assaults, but streaks would generally imply mostly mediums or heavies. You may actually be running too heavy for what you're trying to do, contributing to your frustration.

I can say that, for a while, there was a bug where you could transition from locked to non-locked according to the circle due to changing from direct to indirect, but still actually BE locked on. I do not know if this issue was fixed or not. There are also... admittedly a lot of problems with invisible walls in the game, or geometry that doesn't quite load right unless you're within a certain distance of it, despite being able to SEE what is on the other side of that geometry. Polar and Alpine are just the worst when it comes to the latter.

[Skippy The Danger Squirrel]

On my clan side, I'm running standard SRM6 now because of the poor lock performance on the streaks. My Orion IIc, MadDog and Sun Spider are all plenty maneuverable to brawl, even against lights - especially when SSRM is working...