37 replies to this topic

[The pessimistic optimist]

Xiphias, on 16 July 2019 - 01:14 PM, said:

The Commando 1D is actually the better option. Arms get shot off pretty easily. You can throw two SRM 4s into the CT and tank a ton of damage with the arms. Tankiest light mech in the game by far due to both speed and hitpoints. I usually throw a couple of lasers in the right arm to have a bit of a backup weapon, but you can drop those for more ammo if you need it. If you run right up to them a lot of big mechs have trouble shooting down far enough to hit you.

Javelin is good with either 6xSRM2 (DPS) or 4xSRM4 (burst damage). Oxide is still pretty good (quirks help it some), but suffers from Jenner syndrome so not quite as easy to play. The Javelin is definitely more survivable..

Survivability: Commando > Javelin > Jenner
Damage output: Jenner > Javelin > Commando

Overall, as a newer player to it I'd probably recommend the Javelin most. Having JJs (or ECM) and all torso weapons makes it the easiest to play.

The 10N has the biggest engine cap (285), but will be too tonnage starved to actually run it with a decent amount of ammo. It does however have the best quirks (5% spread, 10% cooldown) so it's worth taking over the 10P (no weapon quirks) if you're only running SRM4s. The 11B swaps the JJs for ECM and has decent quirks (5% spread, 5% cooldown, +100 sensor range), but ECM is heavy (1.5 tons) so you end up tonnage/ammo starved, particularly if you go for stealth armor.

Personally, my pick would be the 10N with a 245XL engine, 1JJ, 4xSRM4s, and 3.5 tons of ammo. Make sure to grab both ammo nodes in the skill tree too.
https://mwo.smurfy-n...647ba5857e8b757

Commando would be something like this: https://mwo.smurfy-n...752133a39a8aeaa

But you can also strip the lasers and get another ton of ammo

Going to have to disagree about survivability. Javelin pretty much got same hits boxes as Assassin and quirks to go with that. I am pretty sure all Javelins have no arm weapon weapons so you have blocking arms to block damage. Then stupid good hit boxes that make it pretty well a smaller faster Assassin.

[Xiphias]

SirSmokes, on 16 July 2019 - 01:34 PM, said:

Going to have to disagree about survivability. Javelin pretty much got same hits boxes as Assassin and quirks to go with that. I am pretty sure all Javelins have no arm weapon weapons so you have blocking arms to block damage. Then stupid good hit boxes that make it pretty well a smaller faster Assassin.

You think that the Javelin is tankier than the Commando? I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. The Javelin is tanky and can put out more damage than the Commando, but the Commando is still significantly tankier.

Javelin quirks

Spoiler

Base Structure (CT) +5
Base Structure (LT) +5
Base Structure (RT) +5

Commando Quirks

Spoiler

Base Armor (LL) +15
Base Armor (RL) +15
Base Structure (CT) +15
Base Structure (LA) +15
Base Structure (LT) +15
Base Structure (RA) +15
Base Structure (RT) +15

Before skill tree the (with quirks) has the following armor/structure = total:

Spoiler

Javelin:
Arms: 20/10 = 30
STs: 28/19 = 47
CT: 40/25 = 65
Legs: 28/14 =42

Commando:
Arms: 16/23 = 39
STs: 24/29 = 53
CT: 32/31 = 63
Legs: 39/12 = 51

Total:
Javelin: 192/111 = 303
Commando: 190/159 = 349

The Commando has significantly more health (~15%)

But, that's not all the Commando has going for it. The skill tree is based on percentages and stacks on top of quirks. In addition, lower tonnage mechs have higher percentage skills for armor/structure so the Commando again wins.

With max skills

Spoiler

Javelin: +39% structure, + 24%
238/154 = 392

Commando: +40% structure, + 25% armor
240/222 = 462

With maxed skill tree and armor/structure the Commando has an extra 70 hp (~18%) compared to the Javelin (excluding the head).

In addition to this the Commando is smaller than the Javelin and more agile allowing it to avoid more damage. The Commando's arms are also proportionally bigger than the Javelin's arms and are easier to shield with. You get damage reduction from hits to destroyed components so even after they are destroyed they still help to reduce incoming damage.

It really isn't a contest. The Commando is a better tank in every aspect compared to the Javelin.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Xiphias, on 16 July 2019 - 02:26 PM, said:

You think that the Javelin is tankier than the Commando? I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. The Javelin is tanky and can put out more damage than the Commando, but the Commando is still significantly tankier.

Javelin quirks

Spoiler

Base Structure (CT) +5
Base Structure (LT) +5
Base Structure (RT) +5

Commando Quirks

Spoiler

Base Armor (LL) +15
Base Armor (RL) +15
Base Structure (CT) +15
Base Structure (LA) +15
Base Structure (LT) +15
Base Structure (RA) +15
Base Structure (RT) +15

Before skill tree the (with quirks) has the following armor/structure = total:

Spoiler

Javelin:
Arms: 20/10 = 30
STs: 28/19 = 47
CT: 40/25 = 65
Legs: 28/14 =42

Commando:
Arms: 16/23 = 39
STs: 24/29 = 53
CT: 32/31 = 63
Legs: 39/12 = 51

Total:
Javelin: 192/111 = 303
Commando: 190/159 = 349

The Commando has significantly more health (~15%)

But, that's not all the Commando has going for it. The skill tree is based on percentages and stacks on top of quirks. In addition, lower tonnage mechs have higher percentage skills for armor/structure so the Commando again wins.

With max skills

Spoiler

Javelin: +39% structure, + 24%
238/154 = 392

Commando: +40% structure, + 25% armor
240/222 = 462

With maxed skill tree and armor/structure the Commando has an extra 70 hp (~18%) compared to the Javelin (excluding the head).

In addition to this the Commando is smaller than the Javelin and more agile allowing it to avoid more damage. The Commando's arms are also proportionally bigger than the Javelin's arms and are easier to shield with. You get damage reduction from hits to destroyed components so even after they are destroyed they still help to reduce incoming damage.

It really isn't a contest. The Commando is a better tank in every aspect compared to the Javelin.

Ok that makes sense not going to argue with math that a losing battle.

[Prototelis]

TBF; I just run sleeveless and near-faceless on the commando. You kind of need that ammo IMO.

[FRAGTAST1C]

I bought the following...

Stealth Javelin and loaded it with 2 SRM2s and 2 SRM4s with 4 tons of ammo. I wanted to go with 4 SRM4s but I don't want to lower the engine size from XL235 and strip anymore armour.

Javelin 10P with 6 SRM2s, 2 JJ, 4 tons of ammo and an XL235.

Javelin 11A with 7ML alpha strike 'cause I was intrigued with its quirks.

So far, all three mechs are nice to pilot. I'll check out the other mechs when I get the chance. I have these 3 and 4 other light mechs (Purifier, Shar, K9, Grinner) to skill up.

[Feral Clown]

AnAnachronismAlive, on 17 July 2019 - 03:10 AM, said:

Pick the JAV-11B, my most favourite IS-light (around 800 games in it ). There ain't no need to go Stealth, plain ECM is enough:

JAV-11B (4SRM4 - XL235)

Needs a little trigger-discipline (ammo is sufficient for 95% of the matches once ye get the ammo-nodes in firepower), but cuts through all weight classes like a knife through warm butter once ye get close and spreads damage like a boss. Just stay away from those pesky streakboats and ye gonna have a lot of delightful games.

At 2.15 damage per at 140 missiles per ton that works out a max damage potential of 752.5. AMS, or missing any of your shots means a great deal then. Think you'd find most would generally recommend taking at least a ton per launcher or even five tons for 4 srm 4's.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Ammo-wise, I try to calculate how many rounds it'd take for me to do 1000 damage and go according to that. Granted, in most matches I don't survive long enough, especially in light mechs, to use all the ammo

[Xiphias]

Prototelis, on 16 July 2019 - 03:55 PM, said:

TBF; I just run sleeveless and near-faceless on the commando. You kind of need that ammo IMO.

That's a fair way to do it and it has it's advantages.

I find the biggest issue with the Commando is that it lacks DPS. You might be survivable, but most matches these days tend to be quick and decided by how fast mechs go down, I find a little bit of extra alpha and the ability to pinpoint focus damage on crit components makes the lasers worthwhile. With perfect accuracy an extra ton of SRM ammo does ~300 damage, that's ~2.5 min of constant laser fire. So as long as you keep your laser arm alive that long it can be advantageous.

You do more damage faster with the lasers and have a greater overall damage potential (if you keep the arm alive). (This obviously is ignoring heat and assuming constant fire)

Spoiler

Right now I actually have my Commando built with 2xSPLs+2xSRM4, however that's a (for fun) Solaris build and I'm pretty sure I had to drop the engine to a 235XL. In a 1v1 I needed the extra damage and the extra ammo wasn't as important.

AnAnachronismAlive, on 17 July 2019 - 03:10 AM, said:

Pick the JAV-11B, my most favourite IS-light (around 800 games in it ). There ain't no need to go Stealth, plain ECM is enough:

JAV-11B (4SRM4 - XL235)

Needs a little trigger-discipline (ammo is sufficient for 95% of the matches once ye get the ammo-nodes in firepower), but cuts through all weight classes like a knife through warm butter once ye get close and spreads damage like a boss. Just stay away from those pesky streakboats and ye gonna have a lot of delightful games.

Drop the head armor and strip a bit off the arms to give yourself another 0.5 tons of ammo.

[Horseman]

jjm1, on 13 July 2019 - 08:53 PM, said:

Or a 4x A/SRM6 KFX-D if you want a missile quirk and more accuracy.

That's my personal recommendation right there. 6xSRM-6 is just way too hot and runs short on ammo very fast. 4xASRM6 works beautifully.

Edited by Horseman, 17 July 2019 - 06:23 AM.

[Relishcakes]

At one point i had a locust with 2x srm2 and 2x srm4. it wasnt fast, but it worked well enough...except against other locusts.

[Kodan Black]

Horseman, on 17 July 2019 - 06:23 AM, said:

That's my personal recommendation right there. 6xSRM-6 is just way too hot and runs short on ammo very fast. 4xASRM6 works beautifully.

Yeah, I love both my kit fox and my arctic wolf for SRM entertainment.

[Faithsfall]

Horseman, on 17 July 2019 - 06:23 AM, said:

That's my personal recommendation right there. 6xSRM-6 is just way too hot and runs short on ammo very fast. 4xASRM6 works beautifully.

I have to say I enjoy both my 6x 6SRM and my 4x 6SRM kitfox, the 2nd for better sustained dmg but the first for giggles, I have had assault's run from it after 1 salvo.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

I'd prefer the 6x srm4 over the 4xsrm6a, but ymmv.

the 6xsrm6 though is way more fun, so that's what I run. nothing more entertaining than a kitfox brawling down assaultmechs

[Kubernetes]

FRAGTAST1C, on 17 July 2019 - 12:14 AM, said:

I bought the following...

Stealth Javelin and loaded it with 2 SRM2s and 2 SRM4s with 4 tons of ammo. I wanted to go with 4 SRM4s but I don't want to lower the engine size from XL235 and strip anymore armour.

Javelin 10P with 6 SRM2s, 2 JJ, 4 tons of ammo and an XL235.

Javelin 11A with 7ML alpha strike 'cause I was intrigued with its quirks.

So far, all three mechs are nice to pilot. I'll check out the other mechs when I get the chance. I have these 3 and 4 other light mechs (Purifier, Shar, K9, Grinner) to skill up.

Nice! The 11A is a scary little bugger once you get it skilled up.

[jjm1]

Horseman, on 17 July 2019 - 06:23 AM, said:

That's my personal recommendation right there. 6xSRM-6 is just way too hot and runs short on ammo very fast. 4xASRM6 works beautifully.

I can't go back to a sensible 4x SRM-6s after the memeworthy 6x.

I try to conserve ammo by only using one click per kill if I can.

[Xiphias]

Kubernetes, on 17 July 2019 - 08:08 AM, said:

Nice! The 11A is a scary little bugger once you get it skilled up.

11A with 7xML is my go to pug mech these days. It's not quite a Jenner-F, but it's the most viable substitute at the moment.

[Kiiyor]

Prototelis, on 13 July 2019 - 09:20 PM, said:

Commando.

Oh god, that thing. An F1 speed Atlas. It stares directly into your eyes as it methodically murders you while doing nothing but circle and ignore your return fire.