8 replies to this topic

[KittenKrusher Prime]

So as most of us may know the Clan active probe is a blatant shot in the foot for clan forces. According to Sarna it is no different to the Beagle active probe except that like most things clan it is lighter and smaller but like its IS counterpart it retains the ability to disrupt ECM. the lack of this ability in the clan version is a huge disadvantage as it allows is Lights to have a huge advantage over their Clan counterparts especially when paired up with Streak srms which we all know are anathema to the light class of battle and omni mech. the lack of ECM counter in the clan active probe also allows IS lights to take down clan mechs many times their tonnage especially when said mech is carrying streaks specifically to counter light mechs such as some heavy and Assault class omni and battlemechs.

There are many things that the game has blatantly done to bound and gag the clans in the name of balance to the point that it is now unbalanced with IS having many advantages....eg. not giving clans lighter yet bulkier rotary AC's, despite them having access to them thanks to Clan Diamond Shark, not to mention the Twelve rotary machine-guns that feature on the Prime variant of the Piranha. and no access to the HE variant of the ATM which deals more damage with no minimum range at the cost of maximum range,the difference from streaks being bigger damage and intergrated ArtemisIV FCS in each ATM pod, which would result in big damage in a much more concentrated zone.
My point here being that despite the huge advantages that are taken away from the clans, The ability to disrupt or cut through ECM with the Clan active probe should not be one of them. it is an ability that both the IS and the Clan should have, anyone that has tried cutting through ecm with a tag laser knows its situation and in todays battlefield with so many mechs having access to ECM..most of which are IS mechs is akin to trying to put out an inferno by peeing on it. ....and in conclusion, where is my Stone Rhino

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

According to Sarna it is no different to the Beagle active probe except that like most things clan it is lighter and smaller but like its IS counterpart it retains the ability to disrupt ECM. the lack of this ability in the clan version is a huge disadvantage as it allows is Lights to have a huge advantage over their Clan counterparts

The ability to disrupt or cut through ECM with the Clan active probe should not be one of them.

Probe does counter IS ECM unless it is an ECM/Stealth, then neither Beagle nor Probe can counter a Stealth+ECM equipped mech when Stealth is enabled. Many ECM equipped IS lights also run with Stealth equipped, not all but many.

If this had been posted in the general section you may have received several responses already.

Chris Lowrey, on 05 December 2018 - 01:13 PM, said:

Stealth armor actually shields itself from thermal sensors turning the 'Mech into the same ambient color as it's environment. Works better on some maps more then others. On something like Alpine or Polar you can still spot it relatively well in thermals, but good luck trying to pick it out with thermals on maps like Forest Colony or Bog.

Any kind of "Auto Detect" counters like BAP, UAV, or Sensor Sweeps should not counter Stealth Armor, you should still be able to stay undetectable.

PPC and NARC hits will knock you out of stealth by disabling the ECM, while TAGing an opponent will allow you to target it while it is under the influence of TAG (but it will not knock you out of stealth.)

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 18 July 2019 - 03:10 AM.

[KittenKrusher Prime]

I never said anything about the effect of active probe when it comes to stealth. I think though if you go into the mech lab and bring up the info for the active probe and the beagle the most glaring difference is that one (beagle) has the line "counters ECM" added to it, I use streaks alot... And I can guarantee that the active prob has no effect whatsoever on ecm.

[Roland09]

Tarl Cabot, on 18 July 2019 - 03:09 AM, said:

Probe does counter IS ECM unless it is an ECM/Stealth, then neither Beagle nor Probe can counter a Stealth+ECM equipped mech when Stealth is enabled. Many ECM equipped IS lights also run with Stealth equipped, not all but many.

If this had been posted in the general section you may have received several responses already.

Tarl, Tarl, Tarl. Where did your reading comprehension go? On vacation to Solaris 7?

This thread is not about CAP. This is a Brave Clan Warrior™ "waaahhhh, waaahhhh, wahhhh PGI hates Clams got shafted again IS OP" thread.

[KittenKrusher Prime]

If pgi hates Clams thats their issue and tbh im not partial to shellfish either....and actually its not, thats a very simple mindless response that doesnt help for or against. also i have both IS and Clan only accounts of which i play both equally, this has allowed me to compare play in both style of mechs...im not asking for anything game breaking but simply for the clans to get the Active probe as it has been depicted in the lore and board game compendiums aswell as Sarna. If anything i feel like you Roland are throwing up a post crying about Clanners crying which makes what your doing no better, your just adding your tears to theirs. Im a Legendary Founder with only 92 posts because i only really feel i need to post when i feel something is important rather than painting the forums with a wide grief brush like yourself....

[Horseman]

Um, Tarl? I'd have to test it to make sure, BUT looking at the items API ( https://mwomercs.com.../list/full.json ), the OP may be on to something there...

"9002": {
	"name": "BeagleProbe",
	"category": "equipment",
	"factions": {
		"Clan": false,
		"InnerSphere": true
	},
	"stats": {
		"slots": 2,
		"tons": 1.5,
		"health": 7.5,
		"amountAllowed": 1
	},
	"ctype": "CBAPStats",
	"bapstats": {
		"rangeboost": 0.25,
		"gaintimeboost": 0.25,
		"mechdetectionrange": 120
	},
	"cost": null
},
"9020": {
	"name": "ClanActiveProbe",
	"category": "equipment",
	"factions": {
		"Clan": true,
		"InnerSphere": false
	},
	"stats": {
		"slots": 1,
		"tons": 1,
		"health": 5,
		"amountAllowed": 1
	},
	"ctype": "CClanBAPStats",
	"cost": null
},
"9022": {
	"name": "ClanLightActiveProbe",
	"category": "equipment",
	"factions": {
		"Clan": true,
		"InnerSphere": false
	},
	"stats": {
		"slots": 1,
		"tons": 0.5,
		"health": 5,
		"amountAllowed": 1
	},
	"ctype": "CClanLightBAPStats",
	"cost": null
},

Note that the the following stat block doesn't appear for CAP or CLAP:

	"bapstats": {
		"rangeboost": 0.25,
		"gaintimeboost": 0.25,
		"mechdetectionrange": 120
	},

Edited by Horseman, 24 July 2019 - 07:20 AM.

[Nicholas Hyde]

Noticed that, too. But since CAP and CLAP provide sensor range bonuses just fine (you can check it in the mechlab), my conclusion is that the values for "CClanLightBAPStats" and "CClanBAPStats" are just somewhere else hidden in the spaghetticode.

[Tarl Cabot]

Loaded up this account and an alt account and went into a private lobby.

Unskilled Arctic Wolf with Active Probe unmasked a fully skilled ECM (non-stealth) Wolfhound at 237 (cross hairs) -239m (target box). The Wolfhound also indicated ECM was being countered by the CAP.

Now, if there is more than one enemy ECM mech around, I believe that would pose a problem, iirc since the CAP will only unmask one ECM mech, which you would have to R to untarget a mech then put your mouse over the mech you want to target (correct me if I am wrong on this..). or if the mech is equipped with ECM/Stealth.

The LCAP had a slightly shorter range only on the actual counter being reflected by the Wolfhound cockpit at 230/233m but the Arctic Wolf should got a target at 237-239m range.

Also, CAP/LCAP/BAP can be crit/destroyed....simply stating some additional information....

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 26 July 2019 - 04:47 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

I believe there is additional information missed under BAP.. Ctype for both CBAPStats and Bapstats. PGI likes to use KISS and copy/link to another item. That is why when the Clan Battlemechs went live there were issues with cXL engines with the slot requirements, it had been linked to the isXL. Tis why things break...

"ctype": "CBAPStats",
"bapstats": {
"rangeboost": 0.25,
"gaintimeboost": 0.25,
"mechdetectionrange": 120
},
"cost": null

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 26 July 2019 - 06:45 PM.