36 replies to this topic

[CL_Kodiak]

Phoolan Devi, on 31 July 2019 - 10:44 AM, said:

Isn't Epic Games the developer of the Unreal Engine everyone wants MW:O to be ported over? So what about that hypocrisy?

I'd say Epic should stick to building Game engines and stay out of the business of Hosting games and trying to compete with Valve who clearly dominates the market and rightly so. Gamers want one game library, one friends list, one online community - one stop shop for everything pretty much.

[MadcatX]

Gristle Missile, on 31 July 2019 - 10:01 AM, said:

Some people pre-ordered it under the impression it would be on steam or gog as promised...steam has a good number of achievements and community integrations so it wont be the same experience. With the game having online co-op, I was looking forward to using the overlay and community groups to put together a team, but thats a feature I can't do anymore thanks to epic.
Lets say you have a PC and a Xbox 360 - you preorder a game from microsoft for the PC, but then they announce it will be xbox exclusive a few weeks before release. Sure its the same game, but the platform can change your experience and therefore your inclination to buy it.

And this is why you shouldn't pre-order video games.

[LordNothing]

Gristle Missile, on 31 July 2019 - 05:33 AM, said:

They did right by offering timely refunds no questions asked and letting people keep their pre-order bonuses (probably because its more work than its worth for them to remove it all)
but they really should have emailed everyone who pre-ordered and not expect them to check the website for this information

letting people keep their loot diminishes the exclusivity of those who are still paying customers. this disparity needs to be rectified. make a couple more preorder variants, or give out wads of mc or something. or promise to give remaining preorders a huge discount on (or free) future dlc.

Edited by LordNothing, 31 July 2019 - 12:31 PM.

[Gristle Missile]

MadcatX, on 31 July 2019 - 11:43 AM, said:

And this is why you shouldn't pre-order video games.

I agree with you in general - unless there are good pre-order bonuses (which for MWO there were)
but this kind of problem is not an issue in 99% of cases

LordNothing, on 31 July 2019 - 12:31 PM, said:

letting people keep their loot diminishes the exclusivity of those who are still paying customers. this disparity needs to be rectified. make a couple more preorder variants, or give out wads of mc or something. or promise to give remaining preorders a huge discount on (or free) future dlc.

You aren't new to MWO, so what are the odds of that happening do you think?

[LordNothing]

Gristle Missile, on 31 July 2019 - 12:39 PM, said:

I agree with you in general - unless there are good pre-order bonuses (which for MWO there were)
but this kind of problem is not an issue in 99% of cases


You aren't new to MWO, so what are the odds of that happening do you think?

pgi has a history of caving into demands like this. if enough people can raise a ruckus we might get more loot. of course with all the people who refunded making such a ruckus its hard to get noticed right now. but we still got a month. im holding off on my refund for now.

Edited by LordNothing, 31 July 2019 - 12:51 PM.

[Thorqemada]

LordNothing, on 31 July 2019 - 12:31 PM, said:

letting people keep their loot diminishes the exclusivity of those who are still paying customers. this disparity needs to be rectified. make a couple more preorder variants, or give out wads of mc or something. or promise to give remaining preorders a huge discount on (or free) future dlc.

That is only true if the loot is for said exclusively offered game!

In this case the loot is a bundeld promotional for an already existing game, that was offered along with the exclusive game, but has nothing to do with it.

[LordNothing]

Thorqemada, on 31 July 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

That is only true if the loot is for said exclusively offered game!

In this case the loot is a bundeld promotional for an already existing game, that was offered along with the exclusive game, but has nothing to do with it.

it doesn't need to be mwo content, especially with mwo on its way out the value of such is somewhat limited. even if its just a promise to let us convert our epic keys to steam keys after the exclusive period ends or a promise to receive future dlc for free (ksp keeps giving me free dlc because i bought the game in alpha for $7.50). since there is no real benefit for holding onto your preorder pgi needs to add something to sweeten the deal and convince people like me not to cancel their preorder.

[Prototelis]

I don't feel like Valve dominates the market "rightly so."

They have the largest market share because they were there first. Steam was a hella big pile of trash when it came out; and it was a very controversial and hotly contested piece of software for years. There were Steam exclusives back in the day; not sure if they shelled out to get any of them.

That said; I do believe anyone who wants to hop in the game needs to look at Steam, its features, and especially where they screwed up along the way in order to build a competing product.

[Luckz]

My refund was also processed very swiftly, and for the interest-free loan I gave PGI I even made a profit because of the EUR to USD valuation changing over those 5 months. 2.x% profit. On that front I can't complain.

[Dagus0323]

I don't understand.
I have steam as a launcher which launches the mwo launcher. (And MANY other things)
That's 2
I have the battle.net launcher
I have the Ubisoft launcher
I have the gog launcher
I have the origin launcher
I have the wargaming launcher

Why is the epic launcher evil?

[Koyuki Raefrskov]

The Epic launcher isn't evil per se.

It's two things. One: Everyone got tricked. Another launcher means more bloatware, particularly one that will virtually never see use outside of MW5 for many of us. Two: Epic Games employs predatory business practices (such as these) to brute force their way into the market, and nobody wants to support that.

As a side note, the only launchers I have are Steam, Battle.net and Uplay, and even the Uplay games and content were bought on Steam.

[Phoolan Devi]

Thorqemada, on 31 July 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

That is only true if the loot is for said exclusively offered game!

In this case the loot is a bundeld promotional for an already existing game, that was offered along with the exclusive game, but has nothing to do with it.

It would only be fair if those wanting to refund should also loose the free stuff they only got because of pre-ordering!

So it is very generous of PGI to let those ppl keep the stuff!

Edited by Phoolan Devi, 01 August 2019 - 11:57 AM.

[Prototelis]

thievingmagpi, on 31 July 2019 - 07:04 AM, said:

Because PGI employed a bait and switch scam to take your money.

Please look up what a bait and switch actually is.

Even if they weren't offering a refund this still wouldn't be a bait and switch.

[Mole]

VonBruinwald, on 31 July 2019 - 07:19 AM, said:

This has no bearing on MW5; it's not going to make the game magically worse in any regard, if anything the extra funding and Dev time means the game should be better than it would be if they they rushed to publish it on Steam.



You seem surprised... you shouldn't be surprised.



This is the point of shafting many are upset over, and they have every right to be. Not everyone uses Steam/Epic/Gog, when you pre-order for one publisher you shouldn't suddenly be expected to use another. Fortunately it's a timed exclusive, and PGI are honouring refund requests so it's not an end-of-the-world situation. It's still a pretty good shafting to those who funded to play in 2019 though.

Let the lesson be learned... don't pre-order.

I don't know if you're completely missing the point or if you just don't care about the point. PGI, or more specifically Russ, who is the president of PGI, lied to us about what platform the game was coming to, took our money, and then switched on us. It's no longer about the game and whether or not I am still going to own it. It's about not rewarding Russ and the rest of his ilk for being scumbags. If they are going to lie to me like that, then they don't get into my wallet. A lot of people feel the same way. If a man on the street was offering to sell you an item that you felt you particularly desired and then as soon as he took your money he spat in your eye and called your mother a *****, would you still feel good about lining his pocket even if you got the item you paid for? Just because I shouldn't be surprised doesn't mean I have to accept it.

Edited by Mole, 03 August 2019 - 08:00 PM.

[Koniving]

VonBruinwald, on 31 July 2019 - 07:19 AM, said:

This has no bearing on MW5; it's not going to make the game magically worse in any regard, if anything the extra funding and Dev time means the game should be better than it would be if they they rushed to publish it on Steam.

You seem surprised... you shouldn't be surprised.

This is the point of shafting many are upset over, and they have every right to be. Not everyone uses Steam/Epic/Gog, when you pre-order for one publisher you shouldn't suddenly be expected to use another. Fortunately it's a timed exclusive, and PGI are honouring refund requests so it's not an end-of-the-world situation. It's still a pretty good shafting to those who funded to play in 2019 though.

Let the lesson be learned... don't pre-order.

Completely agree on all fronts. Doesn't have a bearing on the game, shouldn't be surprised at PGI lying/failing to live up to something yet again, and yes PGI should have said something ages ago along with other little tidbits like "We ran into some **** that we couldn't solve and needed Unreal Engine specialists to fix it/better optimize it because we, PGI, suck at optimizing anything and the recent hit MWO has taken in sales has put us in hot water...(Instead is like "I know it's like a month or two before release but guess what, we've gotta postpone it because we discovered something we can't overcome on our own AND we've signed an exclusive deal!"

And rather than understanding, we've got our current shitstorm.

Personally...
I'd be considerably happier if my sustained purchase not only includes the Epic download, but also reserves a key for steam without an additional purchase because --and to be completely honest-- Epic's system sucks and the less I have to use it the more comfortable I'd be.

[Koniving]

Mole, on 03 August 2019 - 07:59 PM, said:

I don't know if you're completely missing the point or if you just don't care about the point. PGI, or more specifically Russ, who is the president of PGI, lied to us about what platform the game was coming to, took our money, and then switched on us. It's no longer about the game and whether or not I am still going to own it. It's about not rewarding Russ and the rest of his ilk for being scumbags. If they are going to lie to me like that, then they don't get into my wallet. A lot of people feel the same way. If a man on the street was offering to sell you an item that you felt you particularly desired and then as soon as he took your money he spat in your eye and called your mother a *****, would you still feel good about lining his pocket even if you got the item you paid for? Just because I shouldn't be surprised doesn't mean I have to accept it.

I think for him it's the latter, just a personal opinion. But it's PGI. If you expected anything better than that, you might wanna be careful what you shop for. Those of us long-time players have been spreading salt for so long that it should have just been common sense that if anything beyond the actual product mattered, you're in the wrong place. I've even told people pretty straight forward early on, I'm buying it knowing I'll have to fix it to be what I wanted out of Mechwarrior 5 as opposed to what PGI was willing to churn out. As such so long as it can be modified and expanded, pretty much nothing else mattered to me. Certainly would prefer it on Steam, but this decision on PGI's case may actually give me a large influx in youtube views to help my comeback now that my daughter is old enough to make returning to that hobby possible.

As one of those long time players that's been soured by PGI's bait and switches for years,I pretty much expected this the moment Epic Game Store was announced. I'm actually curious if I did a post in a thread calling it, I know if I didn't do it here then I did it on either Star Citizen or HBS BT's threads. Though that went from potentially being a good thing to a really bad thing due to how poorly done the EGS is implemented.

Not everyone is this honest. www.amazon.com/Xbox-One-Empty-Console-Brand-Inserts/dp/B07JHJ9FKQ
And even when they are, someone's still gonna fall for it. (Please for the love of all that is holy do not purchase that...It is literally just an empty box.) Point being be suspicious, makes the disappointment less crippling.

Myself since the end goal is the game and the earlier I get it the better, I'm not terribly bothered. Yes PGI did something ******* stupid and it has only further hurt their reputation but I also understand the reasons behind the decision even if the other choices are completely inexcusable (failure to announce it within a day of signing the deal and outright lying about the preorders getting a steam version)

If I ride the hate chances are I might get a steam version for free and have two versions, and hopefully be able to use the epic version to get the game to play on a second computer so me and my wife or in a few years my daughter might be able to play the game together. But even if that doesn't come to fruition, I'm sure the majority of players are punishing PGI plenty. I'll let most of the people carry the pitchforks, I'll just be here playing the game I wanted and fixing the **** PGI's done to it so that it'll be enjoyable for me.

Edited by Koniving, 03 August 2019 - 08:37 PM.

[Mole]

Koniving, on 03 August 2019 - 08:21 PM, said:

I think for him it's the latter, just a personal opinion. But it's PGI. If you expected anything better than that, you might wanna be careful what you shop for. Those of us long-time players have been spreading salt for so long that it should have just been common sense that if anything beyond the actual product mattered, you're in the wrong place. I've even told people pretty straight forward early on, I'm buying it knowing I'll have to fix it to be what I wanted out of Mechwarrior 5 as opposed to what PGI was willing to churn out. As such so long as it can be modified and expanded, pretty much nothing else mattered to me. Certainly would prefer it on Steam, but this decision on PGI's case may actually give me a large influx in youtube views to help my comeback now that my daughter is old enough to make returning to that hobby possible.

As one of those long time players that's been soured by PGI's bait and switches for years,I pretty much expected this the moment Epic Game Store was announced. I'm actually curious if I did a post in a thread calling it, I know if I didn't do it here then I did it on either Star Citizen or HBS BT's threads. Though that went from potentially being a good thing to a really bad thing due to how poorly done the EGS is implemented.

Not everyone is this honest. www.amazon.com/Xbox-One-Empty-Console-Brand-Inserts/dp/B07JHJ9FKQ
And even when they are, someone's still gonna fall for it. (Please for the love of all that is holy do not purchase that...It is literally just an empty box.) Point being be suspicious, makes the disappointment less crippling.

Myself since the end goal is the game and the earlier I get it the better, I'm not terribly bothered. Yes PGI did something ******* stupid and it has only further hurt their reputation but I also understand the reasons behind the decision even if the other choices are completely inexcusable (failure to announce it within a day of signing the deal and outright lying about the preorders getting a steam version)

If I ride the hate chances are I might get a steam version for free and have two versions, and hopefully be able to use the epic version to get the game to play on a second computer so me and my wife or in a few years my daughter might be able to play the game together. But even if that doesn't come to fruition, I'm sure the majority of players are punishing PGI plenty. I'll let most of the people carry the pitchforks, I'll just be here playing the game I wanted and fixing the **** PGI's done to it so that it'll be enjoyable for me.

Well PGI's stunt pisses me off and is the final straw for me to no longer remain a customer. I didn't preorder MW5 specifically because I predicted Russ was going to find some magnificent way to **** everything up like he has consistently for years. I'm not sure, but I think you might have thought I was speaking in my previous post as someone who was burned by this preorder; I was not. I smelled the stink a mile away and stayed away from it. I didn't know precisely what form the stink would take but I knew I'd know it when I saw it, and here it is. Mostly my above post was meant to illustrate how a lot of the people requesting refunds feel and I totally understand it. I was trying to explain to VonBruinwald that this wasn't a matter of a product not being delivered, this was a matter of principle. Of PGI's long standing habit of lying about whatever they feel like at the moment and then Russ thinking the magical phrase "it was our position at the time" absolves him of all wrongdoing. Of Russ's open disdain for his customers and playerbase. Of a history of broken promises, this one too great for many to bear. I had intended to wait for MW5 to release and then make a more informed decision on whether or not to buy. Well, Russ just gave me all the information I need. I would love to play MW5, I'd likely even be willing to download the epic client to play it if this wasn't the final straw for me. But no, I will not reward Russ and his company for what many consider a bait and switch with my hard earned dollars. I'll take my fiance out to a fancy dinner instead.