38 replies to this topic

[Prototelis]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 18 August 2019 - 06:01 PM, said:

Hi Prototelis


oh yes ...the first Years with the Serverlags and Hitproblems was the hell

They introduced better HSR. Its well documented how it works.

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no ..teh Game in maintance Mode since 2015 ,as the Guys thats personal modified the Cryengine leaves

This **** again.

So let me get this straight; one person is responsible for all of the changes MWO has made to cryengine; and because he's such a badass programmer no one else can follow his work.

Except badass engineers and programmers document their work, and cryengine is one of the most well documented game engines ever.

You're saying a core group of people are responsible for the games development and calling the code sphaget at the same time. It makes no sense.

This game hasn't been developed further because they spent money on other things.

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after the Transverse /Reddit Disaster

Irrelevant. Transverse didn't go anywhere because they were trying to milk star citizens vibe and MWO didn't have the features they promised backers.

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,and many goes to other Companys, and PGI search for Years in his Career Portal to new member with Cryengine experience,

All of those people went to bigger developers, higher paying jobs, or both.

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we seeing the Status and experience since Years , best example ..IK Comes back ...oh bad, no ...we not can make IK , thats a Basic Feature thats all other Games have since 20 Years

PLEASE go ******* read about what a server authoritative game is and how IK works. You keep circling back to this; and you literally don't understand why it would be difficult if not nearly impossible to implement given the way the game works.

This is the only shooter I can think of that leans this heavy on a server authoritative environment. It was done to prevent cheating because anti-cheating measures are astronomically more difficult to implement.

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when you Move in Team and Fireline ,a Rearview Cam make sense and in mW4 you have very different Radar Modes (360° radar/active-passive Radar mode/No Target Dots over the Enemys)

This is not going to enhance situational awareness, pointless feature.

Edited by Prototelis, 18 August 2019 - 06:46 PM.

[Anjian]

Koniving, on 16 August 2019 - 10:44 AM, said:

I worked out a concept for it a couple years ago, even exactly how to control it, and how to have the extended arms work with aiming extreme left/right and how 'mixed' actuator arrangements would work.

Typical mech position.



Press Q, the mech head (if moveable; mind you this was for a Battletech simulator) and both arms aim left, as far as possible and as applicable. This assumes full actuators.

If the opposing arm cannot reach the intended targeted area, the weapons on that arm simply disable to prevent wasted heat. The torso weapons however would not lock out, as being able to use both the torso and arm crosshairs independently to attack multiple targets at once is a valuable, if niche, skill.


Then here's Press E, but to save time this one demonstrates the opposing arm is only upper actuator as PGI has defined them.

Both head and applicable arms aim to the right. The opposing arm in this case would be arm-locked to the torso crosshair, so as to bolster the firepower potential of the torso weapons should the pilot prefer to use them. It would be ideal if the player modified the firing groups accordingly.

Press both Q and E together, and both arms do this. (Watch the Atlas)

Simple, straight forward design.
For MWO, remove head movement of the mech and just put in head movement of the pilot instead.
Example of how it might look.

Just add in being able to see the arms raised up to shoulder height.

You are getting the right idea but you forgot the hands.


If you have the hands open stretched wide, you look like the Mummy out and on the prowl.


The fists must be clenched, like you are aiming the fist at your target in anger.


Or like you are about to unleash the fists like Mazinger Z's rocket punch.

[Koniving]

Anjian, on 18 August 2019 - 06:47 PM, said:

You are getting the right idea but you forgot the hands.

Comical.

But there wasn't a point in me mentioning them (or doing that with my images for that matter). MWO doesn't have any bones in the hands (except the crab and King Crab claws), so they literally do nothing at all and can't have anything done to them.

Besides, there's only one appropriate hand gesture for the situation of delivering death to another person...
....and its considered inappropriate these days, no matter how appropriate it may be for the situation.

(Side note, one of the idle animations I did for the Airbuster involves birds that can't fly.)

Edited by Koniving, 18 August 2019 - 08:03 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

thats ideas all good for a MWO 2.0 when MW5 is good enough to generate Enough Money for MWO 2.0 ,and now PGI have the big Chance to build a very good UE4 Team with experience and UE 4 Guys more on job-Market ...thats we all hope

[Anjian]

Koniving, on 18 August 2019 - 08:01 PM, said:

Comical.

But there wasn't a point in me mentioning them (or doing that with my images for that matter). MWO doesn't have any bones in the hands (except the crab and King Crab claws), so they literally do nothing at all and can't have anything done to them.

Only means that by default, the hands should be fixed at clenched fist position.

But the very idea that the arms and hands are immovable just isn't my idea or anyone's else for a giant robot. It makes it appear that anything on the waist up is a nothing more than a giant turret shaped in a humanoid figure, on top of bipedal legs, essentially a humanoid shaped tank, as opposed to a true mechanical robot.

Besides, if battlemechs do go melee, as they do in HBS Battletech, they should have skeletons, fibers, and even a bit of armor in their hands if they are going to do some punching.

[xe N on]

I would even happy if mech movement and arm usage would be like:



But even in MW5 mechs move like a pillar of salt.


But it should be like this:

Edited by xe N on, 19 August 2019 - 11:21 AM.

[Prototelis]

I dunno, that second video is a little too gundam.

I agree that mech agility could be depicted better; but one of the things that I think defines the mechwarrior games is the way in which the mechs are depicted. They're big, lumbering, mountains of FU.

[xe N on]

Prototelis, on 19 August 2019 - 11:20 AM, said:

I dunno, that second video is a little too gundam.

I agree that mech agility could be depicted better; but one of the things that I think defines the mechwarrior games is the way in which the mechs are depicted. They're big, lumbering, mountains of FU.

In fact in BT novels mechs are much more agile than in games. Mostly, because past game could technically not provide this type of complexity.

"Through the combination of neurohelment and physical controls, the pilot can control the 'Mech, making it run, jump, and even do handstands under the right circumstances." http://www.sarna.net/wiki/BattleMech


Battlemechs are giant war machines, true, but they are biotic modeled and their movement is based on nature, with a skeleton, limps and joints that are moved by myomers - like muscles. Their movement should be much more smooth and natural - not like rigid robots.

Edited by xe N on, 19 August 2019 - 11:33 AM.

[Prototelis]

Thats one of the aspects of battletech lore that isn't consistent.

Personally, I always thought that the IS mechs should have retained a certain lack of agility where as the clan mechs should have been more agile at the expense of being a little more fragile.

[evilauthor]

Prototelis, on 19 August 2019 - 03:01 PM, said:

Thats one of the aspects of battletech lore that isn't consistent.

Personally, I always thought that the IS mechs should have retained a certain lack of agility where as the clan mechs should have been more agile at the expense of being a little more fragile.

Given the Clan's preference for shooting each other at a distance and sneering down at melee attacks. and the Inner Sphere's preference for fighting up close and personal, I think it would have been the opposite.

[Prototelis]

And you don't think that dynamic is stupid given that clan tech typically has better range?

[Anjian]

xe N on, on 19 August 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

I would even happy if mech movement and arm usage would be like:

I would be very happy if I can play a Mechwarrior game that looks as good and clean, and with movement as articulated as that.

[Anjian]

Example from another game.

No need to raise arms that high, guns still kept chest high but not shoulder high. Mechs feature shorter upper arms which keeps shooting height high but longer forearms to preserve overall arm length. Melee in action. You can design the terrain map to further avoid clearance issues.

Edited by Anjian, 20 August 2019 - 05:35 PM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Does anyone remember Heavy Gear? I'm talking about the old ones, especially Heavy Gear 2. The Black Talon company "gears", especially the Dark Mamba and Dark Cheetah were great to use in those games. I mean, almost all of them behaved the same way but, those two gears had a nice sense of speed.

Also, in those games, the gears had wheels tucked inside the feet that could be deployed for extra speed but you couldn't strafe in this mode. I think the strafing could be very useful in Mechwarrior games instead of just making the mechs behave like tanks with legs.

[Anjian]

Melee is the discongruity between Battletech PC and Mechwarrior PC, simply the inclusion of it in the former and the exclusion of it in the latter.




Even if its turn based, the portrayal of mechs in Battletech is what I would expect mecha or big robots should behave. Stompy yes, but flexibly human like that separates them from being mere tanks with legs.

Arms would be real arms that would be used to swing around and deliver that uppercut , and legs would kick that crotch. Given that you would and should expect more flexible firing positions from these arms.

Of course I don't expect all mechs to do this, in particular those mechs that are not human like but more chicken like. Chicken mechs can still do head buts and kicks.

Edited by Anjian, 21 August 2019 - 08:59 PM.

[Prototelis]

I dunno, I never thought melee made any sense from a technical standpoint. With ablative armor you'd probably cause as much damage to yourself as you would your opponent. One of many issues with the technical lore in battletech.

[Anjian]

Prototelis, on 21 August 2019 - 09:02 PM, said:

I dunno, I never thought melee made any sense from a technical standpoint. With ablative armor you'd probably cause as much damage to yourself as you would your opponent. One of many issues with the technical lore in battletech.

You are not supposed to put real life logic and science with a Sci-Fi franchise at all. There is the creative license of make believe. That's the problem of putting logic into fantasy --- it shouldn't. In anime, why giant robots exist is because its based on the rule of nonsense and you create a universe based on the rule of nonsense.

The lore, which is the narrative exposition and the literature of the franchise, along with the original games created by the creator Jordan Weisman, creates the backbone and framework for the rules of that SF universe or franchise. If the lore has robots bobbing and socking each other, it does not matter if it makes real life scientific sense --- it is part of the laws of the lore.

It is the same reason why the Force and Light Sabers exists in the Star Wars universe, what the Ring is to Lord of the Rings and what Warp Drives, Deflector dishes and Phasers are to Star Trek. Each scifi universe has its own belief framework. Gundams have a distinctive rule of their own vs. let's say, the Giant Robots of the Go Nagai Universe (Mazinger Z, UFO Grandizer, and so on) vs. let's say, the Macross universe which is built around transforming planes. The Transformers have their own lore rules too, with robots being sentient, transform into different things, comes from this planet called Cybertron, all part of their mythological framework.

Going back to another post, that is why the mecha in Heavy Gears skate but don't fly. That is the distinctive lore trait and rule of the HG universe (inspired from the Armored Trooper Votoms). But Battlemechs don't skate in their lore, so Battlemechs can't skate and strafe like the Gears do in the HG universe.

Now let's head back to the Gundam video game Battle Operations, and you wonder why you are going to code in the Mobile Suits wacking each other with sabers, when they already have guns. That's because that's how they are portrayed in their lore, and that's what people expect them to do. Never mind its complete nonsense.

[Prototelis]

Anjian, on 21 August 2019 - 11:08 PM, said:

You are not supposed to put real life logic and science with a Sci-Fi franchise at all.

Okay, well then battletech fans need to stop pretending its hard scifi.

Edited by Prototelis, 21 August 2019 - 11:32 PM.

[Anjian]

Prototelis, on 21 August 2019 - 11:32 PM, said:

Okay, well then battletech fans need to stop pretending its hard scifi.

Yes, they really need to.