32 replies to this topic

[BduSlammer]

Normal auto cannon is direct fire weapons. But in most games when you miss the shells disapear, in real world that does not happen. They land some where, you could have mechs behind hills first and have the shells come donw any where like arty.

[Damocles]

one* problem here that I see is that AC rounds are not explosive artillery rounds.
So what is the benefit?

[BduSlammer]

I would say yes to ac-2 sence most things i have seen they are 25-30mm , but larger guns use HEAP. The us and brits use a either or round for the 120s , which is similar to the HEAP.

[Hayden]

BduSlammer, on 27 December 2011 - 08:37 PM, said:

I would say yes to ac-2 sence most things i have seen they are 25-30mm , but larger guns use HEAP. The us and brits use a either or round for the 120s , which is similar to the HEAP.

But isn't that more of a shaped charge, rather than something that's designed to do any kind of area-of-effect damage?

[Phatt]

The AC20 has a very short range and so it would be useless as an indirect fire weapon. However the Longtom is a long range artilery piece that fires HE rounds, which can be used as either a direct fire or indirect fire weapon.

The projectiles don't disapear in MW until they reach their maximum range, so if your unlucky enough to be standing behind a mech that has been missed and your within range of the weapon being fired then you will take damage.

Having spent time in the Army I don't agree with a lot of the weapon range and damage in MW, but it's a computer game based on a Science Fiction fantasy RPG so there isn't much point in trying to argue the point.

[Novembermike]

BduSlammer, on 27 December 2011 - 08:37 PM, said:

I would say yes to ac-2 sence most things i have seen they are 25-30mm , but larger guns use HEAP. The us and brits use a either or round for the 120s , which is similar to the HEAP.

The explosive charge on cannons tends to be relatively small. You aren't going to get any shrapnel flying that can actually damage a mech at any range.

[Phatt]

Just a question on your defenition of what HEAP means, do you mean High Explosive Armour Piercing or High Explosive Anti Personel?

High Explosive Armour Piercing would be completely useless as an indirect fire weapon because it requires direct contact with the armoured vehicle to work effectively.

The latest technology in projectiles is the High Explosive Incendiary/Armor Piercing Ammunition (HEIAP), but it is still useless as an indirect fire weapon.

The Longtom is some kind of HE Fragmentation round that does damage to mech armour and creates a lot of heat when one lands near you, and if your unlucky enough to take a direct hit then your going to take a lot of damage and most likely shut down due to heat.

[Kristov Kerensky]

ACs as indirect fire..eh..not really seeing that...AC does mean autocannon..but it's not meant as a quick firing cannon like on a tank, it's more of a really huge bore machine gun firing off clips per trigger pull..

Phatt..weapon ranges in BTech are not based on anything related to the real world for 1 simple reason..the size of a standard gaming table. Ranges were worked out to allow the players to NOT need to spread maps across their entire block for a quick game. We tried one time to use realistic ranges with the weapons and standard hex maps..about 1 standard city block in length for LRMs giving our own SAM ranges at the time(late 80s)..gauss..a weapon that can fire straight line past the horizon, rounds moving fast enough to leave orbit..nevermind..lets go back to the BTech ranges..we can't afford the maps for a good sized company vs company combat

[PyroAcid]

i think the idea of lobing ac's could be something neat and soild. heres my idea tanks in modern armys have the ablity to chnage there rounds for the targets they are going out to destroy heat rounds for anti armor like apcs,humvs ofther tanks ,velocity rounds for air and expolvie rounds for buildings

just make the ammo change the weapons effects. change your ac's ammo to say heat rounds it does more damage and its shorter range but sence the lets say ac is 500mm but the heat round drops around 300mm just aim it higher and fling it in there i think this could be vray skillful use of the weapon. after all theres littal differnce form ac's and lbxs besides the fact one just fragments the round. this also could be used in guass rifles sence all the round is a soild 100 to 200 pound dart going at the speed of sound. telling me you can't hallow that out for some type of warhead? lol this is the 31st centry right? we got nano termite in the 21st centry what you think these guys could use.

and what you all think how they should fire burst shots singel shots or full auto ?
or all just be chnageing it in the lab? the full auto just means you will over heat faster by laying on the trigger more and thus meltiing the weapon or overheating your mech. it happens to 50cals if you fire them to much in a short period of time. mechineguns are not ment to be used on ofther mechs the mechmechine gun is post to be the autocannon right? hence the name.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Pyro..ACs aren't for indirect fire, they are a direct fire ballistic weapon on the same design lines as a machine gun..only much larger bore, up to 200mm or there abouts for the AC20, firing clips of ammo per trigger pull. 5 shots per ton for an AC20..that's not 5 ROUNDS per ton, that's 5 clips of ammo, each clip holding multiple rounds of 200mm shells...think about that for a minute...these things fire off 10-20 rounds of 200mm shells and reload a clip in under 10 seconds, 1 turn in BTech. Ranges in BTech, I already covered, otherwise firing these things, you could hit something 15 miles away using a nice ballistic arc..10-20 shells on target inside a few seconds..every 10 seconds...it's..well..it's just a little TOO powerful.

And the other things you mention..covered in BTech, different types of munitions, different types of ACs, from the AC to the Ultra AC(fires really quickly) to the LBX(fires cluster munitions) to RAC(improved version of UAC) and the Hyper ACs(fires hyper velocity rounds).

Machine guns CAN be used on Mechs, but the damage they do isn't very high, they are designed for use on light armor and infantry..

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page
Go on, take a look at the information there..

[Phatt]

Kristov Kerensky, on 27 December 2011 - 10:09 PM, said:

gauss..a weapon that can fire straight line past the horizon, rounds moving fast enough to leave orbit..nevermind..lets go back to the BTech ranges..we can't afford the maps for a good sized company vs company combat

Yes I agree, I used to upset enough people as it was with headshots from my trusty old Light Gauss Rifle at 1100m, so you imagine how upset they would get if I was headshoting them from 3000m or more.

In the old days I played quite a few board war games including BT, so I know what you mean about how many maps you would need. I still play Squad Leader these days and that can be a nightmare too sometimes.

[Darkmoose]

AFAIK, weapons do have farther ranges, but the weapons effective range against armored targets, is far less than the distance the shells, bolts, beams travel. Ex. a 308 can travel 4 miles, but has an effective range of only 800 yards against people, and less than that against anything with armor. The board game does have rules for splash damage, just not standard ones, also a hex on the board game is 100 ft, a mech does not take that much space up and only one is allowed in the hex, and when playing previous mechwarrior games missing and hitting someone else did do damage. There are also short barreled artillery cannons that are indirect fire and do do splash damage, but they do not come out for a while after 3048.

[God of War]

indirect AC-fire is definitely a NO! And what for? if you want to fire indirect use LRM. Or beg the Devs to introduce Artillery Cannons like the Thumper/Sniper/Long Tom or Arrow IV systems.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

AC's will probably be left as direct fire. LRM's will probably have an indirect fire capability using TAG or NARC. Dev's have suggested off map artillery support available.

[VixNix]

But the rounds that miss the target hit something...

[Kristov Kerensky]

Yes Vix, they do hit something..whatever is in a direct line along their firing path. So if a Mech is hiding behind a hill and you fire your ACs over the top of that hill..the rounds don't just drop behind it..they keep flying forward until they hit their effective range limits..then they tend to start dropping and finally hit the ground..unless there's something between them and the ground before that. If that's a Mech, and it's just outside of the longest effective range, the round hits the Mech, makes a scary THUD..and falls to the ground. It's a TT game, not reality.

[Brakkyn]

Autocannons are not artillery, nor are they meant to be. Waste of valuable ammunition.

[VixNix]

Still if there is another mech/building/(anything that can get hit) and it is in the trajectory there is a chance it could be hit and if that % is rolled then it should be hit, even if it's a friendly unit.

You want to catch your enemy in cross fire so you over lap fire zones, but you do not fire into the area friendlies are just because your target went there because the chance to hit friendlies is there, without that possibility the game just gets silly (old A-team tv show where hundreds of rounds are fired and no one gets hit)

[KingCobra]

After all these years of playing the MEchwarrior PC games i still love my LBX20 for brawling and AC20-10 for midrange fighting i really dont think they should be changed to a ARTY type weapon there are already artys & longtoms.Bolth artys & longtoms take alot of skill to use but there mostly used under 300-500 meters becouse that is where most players can manage them.So with those 2 weapons in the TT game i dont think we need more of there type weapons.i would try and put up some topics on TT exotic weapons or Lostech weapons the DEVS might put in the game.

[EDMW CSN]

Artillery ? Use the Arrow IV . It weighs 15 tons, exactly the same as a Gauss rifle except taking up more crits.
it is also widely available by 3050 (at least when compared to those Long Toms), so why not use it instead ?

Let it air burst and do it's damage within the hex as per TT.

There Artillery for you