32 replies to this topic

[Kubernetes]

Shanrak, on 21 August 2019 - 03:15 AM, said:

Granted, but the break even point is only around 5 seconds of fire, which is not that long. Yes 1-2 second snapshot opportunities happen much more often but factor in the extra heat and it's s lot more break even than the other ones. But we've known for a while clan acs needs a buff when compared to uacs...

Go into a game and shoot at someone continuously for 5 seconds. How many times can you do it before you have no CT?

[Shanrak]

Kubernetes, on 21 August 2019 - 07:47 AM, said:

Go into a game and shoot at someone continuously for 5 seconds. How many times can you do it before you have no CT?

From 800 meters out against 1-2 targets while they're plastered with shots? Not very often. We're not talking about comp level competition here

I'm not stupid enough to stare at a firing line with a dps weapon.

[Kubernetes]

Exactly. In SQ engagement windows are just a few seconds before a billion lasers start lighting you up. Occasionally you'll get a nice flank where you can pound away for what seems like forever (although on replay these windows are way shorter than they seem during the game). That being the case, UAC2s are fine. If anything, their short jam duration makes them killer for trading.

[Willard Phule]

ShiverMeRivets, on 21 August 2019 - 03:45 AM, said:

There is a difference between mean dps and actual effective dps in the game - when you step out of cover you start with all your guns unjammed. This creates a bias that puts you ahead of the theoretical mean dps. This bias is then watered down the longer you shoot.

What enhances the significance of this bias is the importance of front loading your damage - 5 seconds is a VERY long time for continuous fire. By the you may duck into cover, your target may duck into cover, or it may start to twist to spread the damage. Therefore it is significant that you can overload your initial dps, at the expense of later dps that may not even be relevant.

Having said that, uac2 are garbage and so are ac2. If I can’t boat at least 6 of them I am 100% better served by using fewer bigger guns. If raw annoying dps is your thing, then go for RAC2s - much more efficient and their jams are totally predictable, so you can work it into your tactics.

Oddly enough, on the Clan side, the Blood Asp can do remarkably well with 5. Or LBX2s, both work well. Downside is backup weapons.

[Kubernetes]

Willard Phule, on 21 August 2019 - 12:26 PM, said:

Oddly enough, on the Clan side, the Blood Asp can do remarkably well with 5. Or LBX2s, both work well. Downside is backup weapons.

Why would you put 5 UAC2s on a Blood Asp when a Veagle - 2 can carry the same loadout?

[Appogee]

I'm racking up higher scores more consistently with AC2 instead of UAC2s.

I feel like the UAC2s started jamming a lot more a couple of months ago.

[Willard Phule]

Kubernetes, on 21 August 2019 - 04:47 PM, said:

Why would you put 5 UAC2s on a Blood Asp when a Veagle - 2 can carry the same loadout?

Can't do it with nearly the same armor or backup weapons? Not to mention ammo.

[Livaria]

Kubernetes, on 20 August 2019 - 11:47 AM, said:

They're fine, you just need to bring a bunch of them.

Every time I have tested UACs vs ACs, the ultras always put out more dps, even with jams. Obviously jams suck when you're in the middle of a fight, so you need to bring multiple guns.

(notice that no one complains when RNGeezus gives them 30 seconds of non-jamming UAC action)

Depends on what is fine by your standards... They are fine in the sense that UAC's can sometimes do their job. But not always.

Instead of being forced to bring more multiple UACs. How about just make UACs available to as many mechs as possible no matter how many guns you bring? Otherwise we're likely to limit UAC/2 to the heavier mechs

In my eyes, changing it would be better. I don't like the luck based mechanic not only just because of reduced damage output. But I consider the balancing of damage output far too important in determining who wins to something as uncontrollable as luck.

Edited by Livaria, 22 August 2019 - 07:05 AM.

[Kubernetes]

Willard Phule, on 22 August 2019 - 05:49 AM, said:

Can't do it with nearly the same armor or backup weapons? Not to mention ammo.

VGL doesn't need as much armor because it's much faster and more maneuverable. Backup weapons are unnecessary with 5 UAC2s. Ammo load is fine for SQ, although insufficient for FW (but would you bring a UAC2 BAS to FW?).

[Prototelis]

Personally, if I'm going to 5x uac in FP I do it in the sunspooder or the night gyr.

[Livaria]

Well, despite everything that has been said, I just want UAC/2 to be a more reliable weapon. Even more; I want all UAC mechanics to be predictable. The discussion towards how effective of certain weapons are, can be rather complicated. It might even be too distracting that we can't even focus on what we want from UAC/2s.

Edited by Livaria, 24 August 2019 - 11:47 AM.

[ShiverMeRivets]

Livaria, on 24 August 2019 - 11:40 AM, said:

Well, despite everything that has been said, I just want UAC/2 to be a more reliable weapon. Even more; I want all UAC mechanics to be predictable. The discussion towards how effective of certain weapons are, can be rather complicated. It might even be too distracting that we can't even focus on what we want from UAC/2s.

At the current state of things, don’t expect any major changes to core game mechanics. Just saying.

You also have to understand that making the UACs more reliable will mean that they will have to lose a lot of their power to compensate. Do not expect to get an AC that fires twice as fast. For example, one of the recurring suggestions on this topic is to give UACs nearly twice the cooldown of their AC counterparts. They can still double tap (no jamming) to front load the damage, but the dps over a cycle time is the same as a regular AC. This makes them straight out better than a regular AC, which justifies the extra ton.

[Livaria]

ShiverMeRivets, on 25 August 2019 - 12:10 AM, said:

At the current state of things, don’t expect any major changes to core game mechanics. Just saying.

You also have to understand that making the UACs more reliable will mean that they will have to lose a lot of their power to compensate. Do not expect to get an AC that fires twice as fast. For example, one of the recurring suggestions on this topic is to give UACs nearly twice the cooldown of their AC counterparts. They can still double tap (no jamming) to front load the damage, but the dps over a cycle time is the same as a regular AC. This makes them straight out better than a regular AC, which justifies the extra ton.

I feel as though I already understand, maybe I'm overconfident in believing in my own ability to understand the consequences of what I propose.

It should be pretty clear by now that I still want to justify the extra ton. I Just don't want to justify them with a percent chance mechanic that heavily influences a weapons performance. Which is why I wanted a rapid fire ammunition reserve, when depleted it will have to reload, until then, the autocannon will just fire at a normal rate, which seems fair to me.

Of course I don't expect things to change, but I'll take any opportunity I can.

Edited by Livaria, 25 August 2019 - 12:00 PM.