24 replies to this topic

[zverofaust]

As stated in one of the dev blog interviews some of the team behind MWO would like to see LRMs done in a different way than traditional Mechwarrior games have protrayed them, stating they feel the fire-and-forget nature doesn't really require much skill (though I'd disagree, standing out in the open trying to get a lock can be quite challenging).

So what are some things we might see from missiles, from LRMs, ATMs, SRMs, MRMs?

Long-Range Missiles (LRMs)
After giving it some thought, if the developers really are keen on changing the nature of LRMs, I think what I'd like to see is them as a sort of futuristic version of our standard optically-guided ATGMs like the TOW missile; essentially, you fire them, and the missiles will follow wherever your cursor is pointing until they hit something. They could have pretty exceptional range but of course, at such ranges keeping your target reticle on something -- especially if its moving -- can be quite challenging.

For indirect fire, I'd like to see an ability for LRM-armed Mechs to designate an impact point on their maps, something as simple as right-clicking and "Set LRM Target" so that any missiles fired will impact that point. This makes it exceptionally hard to hit any moving target and also a challenge to hit stationary targets.

For NARC beacons the same would occur; active NARC beacons would be viewable on an LRM-boat's map and he could select them and designate them as a target, in which case his missiles will track it.

As canon, these would have a minimum range.

Medium-Range Missiles (MRMs)
Pretty standard, they're unguieded dumbfire missiles. You point at something, you shoot, and all missiles will travel a more or less flat trajectory in that direction.

Short-Range Missiles (SRMs)
They could operate under the same principle as the LRM, except would not fire in an upward trajectory and have a limited range. They follow whatever you're pointing at.

Stream Short-Range Missiles (SSRMs)
Using the advanced "Targa-7" fire control system these would on the contrary act like conventional Mechwarrior lock-on missiles, since that is their defining feature. Once they have a lock they almost never miss, however they can't fire without one.

Warhead Types
All the above missiles with the exception of MRMs can be fitted with specialized warheads that do things other than simply cause damage. Inferno rounds, which sacrifice raw damage with the ability to add heat damage to targets, and Extended versions that increase range.

Artemis IV Fire Control System
Mechs armed with LRMs or SRMs should have the ability to also mount Artemis IV FCS that basically just makes their missile salvos more accurate.

Advanced Tactical Missiles (ATMs)
Basically a Clan-version of the LRM, with a built-in Artemis-like guidance system and no minimum range penalties.

So what about it? How can we expect missiles to appear in MWO?

[ThunderSquid]

I like your LRM idea quite a bit. Only potential problem I see with it is that it will make them significantly weaker, as moving after firing them will significantly decrease their accuracy. MRMs don't show up until 3058, so we don't have to worry about them. As for SRMs, personnally I don't think normal ones should be guided at all. This isn't canon, just my preference. Then streaks get a significant boost by having guidance. Your Artemis sounds about right.

[zverofaust]

Wilhelm Krauss, on 27 December 2011 - 11:41 PM, said:

I like your LRM idea quite a bit. Only potential problem I see with it is that it will make them significantly weaker, as moving after firing them will significantly decrease their accuracy. MRMs don't show up until 3058, so we don't have to worry about them. As for SRMs, personnally I don't think normal ones should be guided at all. This isn't canon, just my preference. Then streaks get a significant boost by having guidance. Your Artemis sounds about right.

So the SRM would essentially be a short-ranged, heavy-damage MRM? Yeah, that fits. A sort of in-your-face barrage of heavy short-range missiles. As for the MRMs, I never understood the difference between them and "Rockets".

[EDMW CSN]

I prefer to keep SRMs guided. Implement dead fire SRM / LRM ammo if you want a swarm of unguided missiles. Period.

LRMs should only hit 60% of their rated launcher most of the time (they ARE inaccurate after all) and cannot do more than 5 damage to the same location, per launcher. Just like the Table Top.

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 28 December 2011 - 12:08 AM.

[Duke Pitt]

I'm not sure if you would count it as "missiles" per se, but what about Arrow IV artillery?

[AJC]

Arrow IV is a missile just a big fat one.

[Mchawkeye]

[EDMW]CSN, on 28 December 2011 - 12:06 AM, said:

I prefer to keep SRMs guided. Implement dead fire SRM / LRM ammo if you want a swarm of unguided missiles. Period.

LRMs should only hit 60% of their rated launcher most of the time (they ARE inaccurate after all) and cannot do more than 5 damage to the same location, per launcher. Just like the Table Top.

That's not going to work because the target is (possibly) moving. I can see a light mech, of example, almost running though the cloud of LRMs potentially being hit by the more of them than 60%. Or less, I grant you; it all depends on the situation. If the missiles happen to hit location X 10 times, then location X should take the appropriate damage (though we have to realise that, with the inherent inaccuracy, so many missiles hitting one point is unlikely anyway). We can't restrict weapons, at least not in this way, by table top rules, because this isn't the table top. It's a simulation and what happens, happens, and shouldn't be blocked by arbitrary programming.

They should swarm, they should be reasonably inaccurate. I think indirect fire could be implemented with targeting information from spotter/recon mechs, and TAG and NARC should provide guided target information. and then there is A4FCS...
I like the idea of indirect fire on terrain, and a sort of top down artillery view, but I think this should be a map rather than real time, or at least real time only on the commanders mech...So many options.

LRMs should represent the support weapon; longest range (so they are well out of range of lasers or even gauss) a decent range of targeting options and upgrades and possibly even different warhead types.

[God of War]

the only systems we will see ingame for a long time cause of the timeline are LRM and SRM/SRM-Streaks.
everything else will have to wait a time. And the "just point and click"- idea for indirect LRM fire reminds me too much
on WoT´s Artillery to like it.
And by the way it doesn´t fit the BT fluff that requires a spotter for indirect fire, which IMHO, would be the best solution
to the questiuon. A scout spots the target an makes it visible for the LRM-shooter and anabels him to look on to the target. the he raises his launchers to the sky, pushes the red button and let rain down death on target.

[Zyllos]

LRMs should be a limited tracking missile which arc and spread away from other missiles being fired at the target. The missile would leave their tubes in a giant cone of fire and track to the target slowly for only a limited amount of time which then they will travel straight.

SRMs will do the same but are much shorter but hold a bigger payload.

Streak SRMs travel much quicker and track all the way to the target but hold smaller payloads than SRMs.

All Missiles should track towards the CT. Vertical corrections should be significantly less than horizontal corrections.

[wolf74]

Why make the Indirect fire lock-on be on the ground. I know we have a Few Tribes 1 player here anyone remember the Spotting Laser Effect in it for The Indirect Morter Cannons?

AKA. Player A Spots and Enemy Mech using the Spotting Software on his unit to spot the enemy Mech. Player B Gets a Line going Straight up in to the Sky with a Small Triangle pointing down. The Triangle is the lock-on point for the Player B to Fire is LRM at the Target, a Side note the Height of Triangle will also get Player B How far out the Target maybe.

The Effect maybe better suited for the TAG laser but a Mech Spotting could use it too.

[canned wolf]

According to the canon, LRM's weigh eight pounds apiece. I would just like to see them represented properly. They are cheap with terrible guidance made up for by the fact that you fire as many as twenty at a time. The missiles themselves should be tiny, and when you fire them one or two should pretty much land at your feet or go spiraling off into the sky. I just have a hard time with how they tend to be presented graphically. Think like an RPG except kind of guided, not a hellfire or maverick.

I wouldn't even mind if their offensive effectiveness was lowered in favor of specialty ammo. Flares, Smoke, maybe even chaff to mess with radar?

Edited by canned wolf, 28 December 2011 - 10:14 AM.

[MuffinTop]

What about missle counter- measures or they come later in the timeline?

[Omigir]

+1 for the LRM 'laser guided' idea. in this way a skilled pilot could get thier missles into otherwise hard to get areas like into a hole in a building where that speky raven keeps trying to tag your lance with NARC's from.

[Kaemon]

Since the terrains we are fighting on will be vastly different (desert, jungle, urban, moon) will we not need missile variants to deal with these differences?

I hope we're down the road enough technology wise to be able to do this, I'd like to see some manufacturer variances in missile launchers.

I also would like to see smoke/chaff rounds to mark the locations of heavies/conceal your team's movements.

Also select fire (1,5,all) and ROF (All at once, 1 at a time).

That shouldn't be too hard to implement.

Indrect fire...hmmm....that's a more complex topic and probably deserves it's own threadnaught.

[Yeach]

Do missiles in TT have travel time that dodging makes a difference?

As opposed to direct-fire weapons.

Edited by Yeach, 09 January 2012 - 09:43 PM.

[VYCanis]

in TT they have no set speed or level of guidance or tracking ability. you just have launch, chance to hit or miss, and if a hit, you determine how many hit and where. The fluff giving vague ideas as to how they lock on or don't with modifiers to this or that.

its up to gameplay and artistic interpretation as to how they actually behave in flight in game.

but yeah, i'd totally like to see pros and cons to various missile approaches.

having the MW4/MWLL high arc for LRMs is fine and dandy in open areas and for shooting over low cover, but in a city they aren't exactly ideal. In a city you want something that you can use more reliably in straight lines, because otherwise, all that arcing is going to do is hit buildings and overhangs... unless of course thats what you want (to knock down buildings). Missiles that fly straight and fast are great... unless your enemy has AMS, in which case they are more easily shot down...but if they zigzag like in the trailer, maybe they don't get there as fast, but they are more able to outwit AMS

gives and takes

[Brazo Izquierdo de Muerte]

sounds good just no MRM

[Amarus Cameron]

zverofaust, on 27 December 2011 - 10:29 PM, said:

Advanced Tactical Missiles (ATMs)
Basically a Clan-version of the LRM, with a built-in Artemis-like guidance system and no minimum range penalties.

ATM's are not just a clan version of the LRM with better accuracy, they have three missile types. Standard, ER(Extended Range), and HE(High Explosive). The Standard does the same damage as SRMs, with extra range, the extended range does the same damage as LRMs but with extra range, and High Explosive does 3 points of damage which is one more than SRMs but they have the range of the SRMs.

Not just general missiles. If you add ATMs then you open a whole new can of worms. But it does not really matter at the moment as it was not invented until 3060 by Clan Coyote.

[Thorn Hallis]

MuffinTop, on 28 December 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

What about missle counter- measures or they come later in the timeline?

AMS is allready present in 3048, so it should be available.

[VYCanis]

ATMs are great and flexible and all, but they pay for it in tonnage, and can be out performed by their weight in conventional launchers. though the ER ammo does have a lot farther reach than standard LRM ammo, still, its ammo is more more limited than other launchers and not suitable for extreme range plinking.

its got it's uses, but it by no means obsoletes the other launchers