36 replies to this topic

[Roland]

Here is what I'd propose:
First, I would suggest be turned into a toggle button, rather that a press and hold, since quite frankly it's trivial for folks with better equipment to just make a programmable toggle script anyway.

Second, I propose that the current arm lock functionality be changed such that when you lock the mech's arms if that mech has lower arm actuators, that it raise its arms and lock the ELBOWS of the mech.

What this would do, is that it would remove what is often a penalty for mechs with lower arm actuators. So, mechs like the Atlas would then be able to raise its arms up and fire over ridges.

Currently, mechs with lower arm actuators, in many cases, are basically penalized. The are forced to spend extra critical space on those actuators, and cannot choose to remove them. Also, having lower arm actuators ends up putting guns much lower on a mech's profile, which tends to be disadvantageous in a game like MWO.

In theory, lower arm actuators are supposed to have NO downside, other than the critical slots they take up. For this reason, I'd suggest making the aforementioned change, as it would tend to give pilots another piloting option, while removing a penalty on certain mechs which really shouldn't be a penalty at all.

Edited by Roland, 06 March 2014 - 05:34 PM.

[990Dreams]

Disagree. I think that the press and hold release/center to reticle works great.

Edited by DavidHurricane, 06 March 2014 - 05:44 PM.

[Roland]

DavidHurricane, on 06 March 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

Disagree. I think that the press and hold release/center to reticle works great.

That's actually not the point of this thread, but ok.

[990Dreams]

Roland, on 06 March 2014 - 05:45 PM, said:

That's actually not the point of this thread, but ok.

The point is that arm lock should make the Mech's arms raise up correct? If that is the point then it ruins the reason for arm lock.

As far as I'm concerned I just want an option to lock my weapons to hit one point and unlock them when I need to. Other than that I am alright with whatever.

[Supersmacky]

No. You take a mech with low slung weapons, you get a mech with low slung weapons.

[Roland]

DavidHurricane, on 06 March 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

The point is that arm lock should make the Mech's arms raise up correct? If that is the point then it ruins the reason for arm lock.

As far as I'm concerned I just want an option to lock my weapons to hit one point and unlock them when I need to. Other than that I am alright with whatever.

It would still lock your arms, it would just raise them.

When I say raise its arms, I mean extend the arms straight out in front of the mech. Thus, it would allow you to shoot over ridges, etc..

[Karl Streiger]

Interesting - would like to have that choice - having a "temporary sniper" Atlas - or in case of an released arm lock you have a more mobile - Light Mech tracking ability.

Although it could be felt as drawback by Mechs without "lower" arm acticators - because nothing will change for them (and a buff for the other - that don't have an effect on you - is a nerf)

Maybe the addition to make the Gray Norton maneuver - would be a nice addition for JaegerMech, BlackJack and Quickdraw.

[Joseph Mallan]

Why have actuators if they don't Actuate! Let take a vote. Can we have a show of hands? No! Then fix the dang actuators!!!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 March 2014 - 04:01 AM.

[Reitrix]

The problem with actuators is actually just map design. If only we had some true urban maps with buildings too tall to ever fire over, instead of all the hills and cliffs maps we have now. Actuators become more useful since you can come up to a corner, then freelook peek around it and shoot.

[Supersmacky]

I just think if it funny that someone wants a way to raise the arms of an Atlas so it can hide behind a hill and snipe. If that's all you want to do, get something with high mounted arms and no lower arm actuators. LOL

[Roland]

Supersmacky, on 07 March 2014 - 04:51 AM, said:

I just think if it funny that someone wants a way to raise the arms of an Atlas so it can hide behind a hill and snipe. If that's all you want to do, get something with high mounted arms and no lower arm actuators. LOL

But your perception here is colored by your experience with this one game.

An atlas, or any other mech with lower arms, is supposed to be able to MOVE THEIR ARMS. As in, move them like you can move your arms. YOU don't tape your arms to your torso, right?

There is already a penalty for having lower arm actuators... namely, that they take up critical slots.

The additional penalty of having those weapons mounted lower isn't really supposed to be there... Lower arm actuators are supposed to be an upgrade compared to mechs that don't have them.... not a penalty.

[FupDup]

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'd say have Arm Lock as a Toggle for sure.

And Raising the Arms as a separate key, as for that also being a Toggle or not, I'm not sure.

[Flying Judgement]

bigger recoil could be applied when arms raised
it would even make sense
but we need recoil first :/
lots of basic missing features

[Supersmacky]

Roland, on 07 March 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

But your perception here is colored by your experience with this one game.

An atlas, or any other mech with lower arms, is supposed to be able to MOVE THEIR ARMS. As in, move them like you can move your arms. YOU don't tape your arms to your torso, right?

There is already a penalty for having lower arm actuators... namely, that they take up critical slots.

The additional penalty of having those weapons mounted lower isn't really supposed to be there... Lower arm actuators are supposed to be an upgrade compared to mechs that don't have them.... not a penalty.

No. I have played Battletech from the back in the day. I understand the purpose of arm actuators. However, the point of the topic/poll is in the context of the game and its current iteration. I agree that arm movement should be added, but that is not what the poll is asking for. The poll is asking that mechs with low slung weapons be given something else instead. If the question had been to make lower arm actuators function, I am all for that. But it should be noted that lower arm actuators are not for elevating arms to the zombie pose level, but for the side to side move. The shoulder and upper arm actuators control the rotation of the "arms" vertically. The lower arm actuators control the flexing of the arm starting at the elbow (and allow for side to side movement of the arms). So, if it can be demonstrated that given mechs can rotate their arms (shoulder and upper armor) into the horizontal and that the lower arm can be extended straight (a la zombie pose), then it should be in the game and that should be the point of the poll (not some other workaround to allow assaults and heavies to play timid and hide behind ridges).

Interesting thing to note is I did a look for images or miniatures of an Atlas with its arms up at shoulder level and could not find one. Lots of them with elbows tucked in tight to sides and some where the arms are outstretched but pointing down, but none with them in the zombie pose.

[Bhael Fire]

I've always found it very strange that lower actuators are actually more of a penalty than a bonus in that low slung guns in this is not optimal.

I suppose the thought is that horizontal arm movement is a bonus, but not so much when just about everything blocks your shots because your mech is knuckle dragging like a moronic ape.
The fact is, mechs with upper and lower actuators should be able to lift their arms up to head level. Period.

[Roland]

Supersmacky, on 07 March 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

The poll is asking that mechs with low slung weapons be given something else instead. If the question had been to make lower arm actuators function, I am all for that. But it should be noted that lower arm actuators are not for elevating arms to the zombie pose level, but for the side to side move.

Yes, but the problem is that in the current implementation, when you add lower arm actuators, you are apparently locking your upper arm actuators, which is nonsensical.

Mechs with arms had full arm movement. There was nothing that suggested they couldn't raise their arms like a human. THAT IS WHY THEY WERE DESIGNED LIKE HUMANS.

Supersmacky, on 07 March 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

Interesting thing to note is I did a look for images or miniatures of an Atlas with its arms up at shoulder level and could not find one.

Edited by Roland, 07 March 2014 - 10:40 AM.

[Supersmacky]

Roland, on 07 March 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

Yes, but the problem is that in the current implementation, when you add lower arm actuators, you are apparently locking your upper arm actuators, which is nonsensical.

I completely agree. So, lets press PGI to give us full arm movement the way it should be if you have should, upper arm and lower actuators.

And thank you for the pictures. After my post yesterday I did find some here on the board so I stand corrected.

Cheers!

[Roland]

Supersmacky, on 08 March 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

I completely agree. So, lets press PGI to give us full arm movement the way it should be if you have should, upper arm and lower actuators.
;

Dude, that is the point of the suggestion in this thread that you voted no to.

Having arm lock raise the mechs arms would give you full arm control.

[Dramborleg]

DavidHurricane, on 06 March 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

Disagree. I think that the press and hold release/center to reticle works great.

I don't much care about low-slung weapons being at a disadvantage, but I do disagree with this. I have some mechs with no weapons on the arms and some with only weapons on the arms, and it is a pain in the ass to have to go into settings and change a this every time I want to play a different mech. I'm sure holding it works for some people, which is why it should be three settings, AL-on, AL-off, and AL-toggle, the last making the AL button toggle the setting.