33 replies to this topic

[Azeem447]

so i recently got new Virpil joystick and throttle control, but the game doesnt see my throttle control. the two are on separate usb's but despite my best efferts both inside the game and out, i cant seem to get the game to see the throttle. what am i missing?

[General Solo]

Hi, joystick support isnt great but many topics have been written that may help you.

But you will need to some reading and work unfortunately

Try searching the website for Joystick threads,
their may one be one that will help

https://mwomercs.com/search?q=joystick

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 17 September 2019 - 07:52 PM.

[Dar1ng One]

OZHomerOZ, on 17 September 2019 - 07:51 PM, said:

https://mwomercs.com/search?q=joystick

Nice to see. Players helping players. Now you just need to control you rage in game.

mmmmmmmm yes

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

be sure to have it set in the controller settings to 'analog throttle' and below that select throttle range 'full'

does windows recognize your throttle and is it calibrated?

Edited by Napoleon_Blownapart, 18 September 2019 - 06:39 AM.

[Biomechtric]

I'm going to be brutally honest here regarding using a joystick & throttle & say DON'T DO IT!!
I am speaking from experience here as I have tried to use this set up & it just doesn't work, the reason being that aiming with a joystick is terrible in this game due to the fact that you need accuracy in order to hit the parts of the enemy that you need to i:e component destruction. Even with lock on weapons you will struggle as the lock radius is, nowadays, too tight to track accurately with the joystick.
I also had problems with the throttle as finding dead center(0 throttle) was very hard in the heat of combat & I was finding it hard to poke in & out of cover. This could be due to the throttle assembly I was using(Thrustmaster T1600m) having no tactile feedback when it was at dead center, your set up may differ.
Can I ask how you plan to steer your legs? Joystick rotation? If so, then, again your accuracy will suffer immensely as you try to not only twist the stick but also aim well enough to effectively shoot what needs to be shot at.
What I advise to try is using the joystick to control your legs & the mouse to aim with, not quite what you see in the cockpit in game but still more immersive than using keyboard.
I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, I was so very hopeful it would work but it just doesn't.
This is not to say don't try it but if you do, in a live match, be prepared for lower scores than everyone else & also being a detriment to the team as most others in the match have a huge advantage over you.
Be prepared for salt from other players if they spectate your mech after their death, it is very, very easy to tell who is trying to aim with a joystick.
Again, experiment with it, use the testing grounds & the academy not live matches.
I personally use the joystick for legs & the mouse to aim, this is a new alt account but please feel free to look up the stats for my few matches on the leaderboards(I don't care). At no 105, Mediums, average match score, is not to bad & proves that the stick & mouse works reasonably well.
I hope all this this helps.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

i am going to be brutally honest here, use a joystick, use 2. screw anyone who tells you otherwise. have fun as this game nears its end


a match from this week using a joystick and throttle with a 4lb10 3 med laser ecm Fafnir

Edited by Napoleon_Blownapart, 18 September 2019 - 06:47 AM.

[Biomechtric]

Napoleon_Blownapart, on 18 September 2019 - 06:45 AM, said:

i am going to be brutally honest here, use a joystick, use 2. screw anyone who tells you otherwise. have fun as this game nears its end


a match from this week using a joystick and throttle with a 4lb10 3 med laser ecm Fafnir

& here Ladies & Gentlemen is one of the major reasons MWO is losing players!
This is a team game! Having just one mech on your team that is seriously under performing(yes you Napoleon!!) will lose you the match & for a newer player, to lose every time, will make them leave the game prematurely, never to play again.
I understand you want to have fun but to ruin the fun of 11 others to do it?? What kind of person does that?
I'm not going to post others stats, but I've had a look Napoleon & I'm afraid to say they speak for themselves in comparison to most who use keyboard & mouse or joystick & mouse.
The OP asked for helpful advice but you seem to want him to be worse at the game than his possible potential.

[Tesunie]

Biomechtric, on 18 September 2019 - 08:08 AM, said:

& here Ladies & Gentlemen is one of the major reasons MWO is losing players!
This is a team game! Having just one mech on your team that is seriously under performing(yes you Napoleon!!) will lose you the match & for a newer player, to lose every time, will make them leave the game prematurely, never to play again.
I understand you want to have fun but to ruin the fun of 11 others to do it?? What kind of person does that?
I'm not going to post others stats, but I've had a look Napoleon & I'm afraid to say they speak for themselves in comparison to most who use keyboard & mouse or joystick & mouse.
The OP asked for helpful advice but you seem to want him to be worse at the game than his possible potential.

I find it funny that a cadet (or alt account, so we can't see anything) is ragging someone who at least isn't a cadet about what causes new players to leave the game.

I will remind people, once more, that this is a game. Games are designed to create fun. If one person wishes to use a Joystick and it increases their personal fun (and is within the rules and limits of the game), then they should be permitted to use said device. I know of a player who uses a joystick, and they do fairly well in this game.

Overall, yes. Gameplay is easier with a mouse and keyboard, because that was what this game was designed to be operated on. Easier does not always equate to "fun". It can be played with a joystick and throttle, game pad or evenly (and jokingly) "A steering wheel and peddles".

I will also comment that winning is not everything. By this game's very nature, which is PvP, it is impossible to have everyone win all the time. Across the entire population, W/L rates will equal 50% (excluding ties, which result in a double loss). This means, for one player to win, another MUST lose. Sometimes, even really good players can lose, and not always "because the other player is better".

As such, I remark again that, it's a game. Have fun with it. If playing with a joystick is fun for you, go ahead.

(As a side note, my brother currently can't play this game because he can't use his right hand for the mouse due to an injury. If he was to play it, he would have to use a controller/game pad. So that's a good example why alternative interface options are not a bad thing.)

[Biomechtric]

Tesunie, on 18 September 2019 - 12:50 PM, said:

I find it funny that a cadet (or alt account, so we can't see anything) is ragging someone who at least isn't a cadet about what causes new players to leave the game.

I will remind people, once more, that this is a game. Games are designed to create fun. If one person wishes to use a Joystick and it increases their personal fun (and is within the rules and limits of the game), then they should be permitted to use said device. I know of a player who uses a joystick, and they do fairly well in this game.

Overall, yes. Gameplay is easier with a mouse and keyboard, because that was what this game was designed to be operated on. Easier does not always equate to "fun". It can be played with a joystick and throttle, game pad or evenly (and jokingly) "A steering wheel and peddles".

I will also comment that winning is not everything. By this game's very nature, which is PvP, it is impossible to have everyone win all the time. Across the entire population, W/L rates will equal 50% (excluding ties, which result in a double loss). This means, for one player to win, another MUST lose. Sometimes, even really good players can lose, and not always "because the other player is better".

As such, I remark again that, it's a game. Have fun with it. If playing with a joystick is fun for you, go ahead.

(As a side note, my brother currently can't play this game because he can't use his right hand for the mouse due to an injury. If he was to play it, he would have to use a controller/game pad. So that's a good example why alternative interface options are not a bad thing.)

If you had actually read my 1st post here you would have seen that this is an alt account. I have been playing for about 5 years, I am very experienced & all 3 of my accounts show numbers similar to the few games on this one.
Also, as I said to Napoleon the leaderboard numbers say it all. You can cry 'but I'm having fun' all you like but you need to take a real good look inwards if your fun is taking it from others & ruining their experience..
I also stated in my 1st post that he should try it & also told him what to expect if he does.
What I was 'ragging' on is the fact that Napoleon is promoting bad team play in a team game.
I've seen over the years that you are very active on the forums & every time you challenge what more experienced players are saying without actually reading & understanding what they are saying & I say more experienced by, again, looking at the only reasonable metric we have which is average match score & seeing that it is always the below 80% percentile players that seem to have the 'best' advice. Your words with justcallme A S H, amongst others have been painful to read at times...
Now, I know that stats aren't everything but did you know that you can be a good player, run decent builds & have fun at the same time? Probably more as you will perform better, win more & earn more cbills. This fact seems to get lost in these forums.
Scathing words I know but I have toothache & I'm not in the best of moods.

Edit as I needed to add up my games played over my 3 accounts so I can show I have experience. I have to date played my 9000th match today.

Edited by Biomechtric, 18 September 2019 - 01:32 PM.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

yup , it's my fault most of the player base has left MWO

I responded to a post about a throttle not working without telling someone how I think they should play

[Biomechtric]

Napoleon_Blownapart, on 18 September 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:

yup , it's my fault most of the player base has left MWO

I responded to a post about a throttle not working without telling someone how I think they should play

Wow! Good way to prove my point! It's not just about you dude, it's a team game.
I never once said it was your fault personally that folks are leaving but I can see(kind of) why you might have thought that. What I was saying is that the attitude of 'me & only me matters' is bad, very bad for a team based game. It's one of the reasons NASCAR is so bad, one of the reasons people don't play anymore & the narcissistic attitude is why the 'old school' don't want to help newer players so much anymore, they just don't listen to good advice because 'me & only me matters'.
Once again I told the OP to try it & also explained why it's not such a good idea, it's up to him what he does with that info.
It takes a very 'special' person to consistently perform badly, over a long period of time & to be proud of it. & just so you are aware Napoleon, that was not aimed at anyone in particular, it's just a fact of life.

Edit, Apologies Napoleon, I did single you out in my rage.

Edited by Biomechtric, 18 September 2019 - 02:26 PM.

[Tesunie]

Biomechtric, on 18 September 2019 - 01:24 PM, said:

If you had actually read my 1st post here you would have seen that this is an alt account. I have been playing for about 5 years, I am very experienced & all 3 of my accounts show numbers similar to the few games on this one.
Also, as I said to Napoleon the leaderboard numbers say it all. You can cry 'but I'm having fun' all you like but you need to take a real good look inwards if your fun is taking it from others & ruining their experience..
I also stated in my 1st post that he should try it & also told him what to expect if he does.
What I was 'ragging' on is the fact that Napoleon is promoting bad team play in a team game.
I've seen over the years that you are very active on the forums & every time you challenge what more experienced players are saying without actually reading & understanding what they are saying & I say more experienced by, again, looking at the only reasonable metric we have which is average match score & seeing that it is always the below 80% percentile players that seem to have the 'best' advice. Your words with justcallme A S H, amongst others have been painful to read at times...
Now, I know that stats aren't everything but did you know that you can be a good player, run decent builds & have fun at the same time? Probably more as you will perform better, win more & earn more cbills. This fact seems to get lost in these forums.
Scathing words I know but I have toothache & I'm not in the best of moods.

1. You should not be posting with alternate accounts on the forums. Though you are unlikely to get into trouble for it, it is technically against the CoC. If you are going to continue posting with an alt account, it is highly recommended you make it clear what your primary account is. I also have an alt account. My alt account has never concealed whom I was, and I've posted very little with it (mostly a "Tesunie's 'Not a new player' new player experience" feedback thread). I even have it on the location of that account "Tesunie Kataren". This is not meaning anything, other than a friendly warning to be careful.

2. Fun is a very subjective term. Your viewpoint on "fun" means "Play as I do, do good, or get off the game" (I am paraphrasing to what it sounds like you are saying). That's not exactly a very healthy viewpoint. We have different levels of play and different ways to have fun. Stats are not the end all and be all of "fun". This is a game, and it is recommended to find what is fun for you, while playing within the rules of the game.
AKA: I don't care how much fun shooting teammates may be for someone, it's against the ToS, CoC and is extremely poor sportsmenship. It is not permitted within the game. Etc.

3. Playing "to have fun" does not "ruin everyone else's experience". I would advise people to play to have an impact, but don't forget to have fun. If I listened to people about "don't you have fun, think of the team", then I'd have dropped LRM use forever and never gone back. I like LRMs, as much as I like other weapons within the game. Myself, using LRMs at any stage in this game's history since I joined in 2012, was enjoyable for me. Also, I have maintained a positive W/L ratio with my LRM mechs for most of that time. But, I guess I should have not played to have fun all those years? Shouldn't have used LRMs at all for those years? According to your philosophy, I should have listened to everyone else... and left the game back in 2013... because "I was a detriment to my team". (Realize, I'm taking what you said to an extreme outcome.)

4. Q: How is Nepolean "promoting bad team play in a team game"? Using a joystick is not the same as telling people to ignore their team and do things. He's not saying "you should charge into the enemy first, die as fast as you can, and then jump into another match to do the same for maximum X". That would be detrimental and not promoting team play. Saying "Use one joystick. Use two joysticks! Whatever is fun and works for you." is not promoting a lack of teamwork. If anything, he's promoting that one should play in a manner that they have fun and to try it out because it might work well for them.

5. I respect what JustcallmeAsh says in context. My issue with him is often how he says it "Do it this way or it's horrible". He's great for high competitive advice, but not everyone plays top tier competitive matches. Many people are just here to unwind, play a game and have fun. Top competitive advice is still good, but not always what the player is asking about. Not related to Ash, but some players will take a "help with build advise", and rather than build a mech based upon the layout/role the player intended, they will throw in the current meta build with no regard to the original build requests. Many people also can't see different "shades" of mechs. There is no black and white on what works and what doesn't. There are always more optimized loadouts, but that doesn't mean a slightly less optimized loadout isn't valuable and still a good build.

A little off topic but on notation of many of my comments to "more experienced players" on these forums are about build loadouts.

Spoiler

There are different levels of builds:
Troll: These are silly and often impractical to the extreme. These are outright detriments to the team, and honestly should not be played besides to test their viability. For example, a 12 flamer Nova. A Raven with only 2 H/L/MGs and thousands of rounds of ammo. Etc.
Poor/bad: These are builds that have significant problems with their design. A step above troll builds because they can have some valid functions. However, in 90% of cases these builds will often die with little to show for their work. Possibly builds that are extremely situational, or still in development. (Often, poor builds are builds people starting out are still affording pieces of, such as the correct engine.) My own Stealth Cicada 3M with a Gauss and 2 MLs falls here. He can do well, but lets face it it's not a good build either. Very situational and slow at dealing damage. It can have it's uses and/or can be fun... but most times it's not overly practical.
Good: These builds might not always be fully optimized, or not follow the meta, but they can prove themselves with reasonably average performances. They can range from bracketed builds, to builds that are meta-like but just not 100% optimized. In the right hands, these builds can be devastating, or can be just so minutely beneath a meta build that the differences are extremely small. An Archer thread recently displayed a reasonable argument for a build on these terms, as the Archer in question had a good solid build, but was not exactly meta. Ash often likes to call builds within this category as "extremely poor", which is my larger argument with him most times.
Meta/Comp/Extreme: These are the builds top tier comp players will bring. They are fully optimized, often a meta, and most times extremely specialized. 6 MPL Uziel, 5 MPL Vulcan, AC2 Annhiliators and ATM Vapor Eagles are all good examples of this at the moment. These builds are often ever shifting with every update that might change something, such as a quirk on a specific mech, a weapon balance pass, etc. These may be epitome mechs for any number of reasons, but mechs on this list (as far as normal, casual play for the average player) do not invalidate all other mechs, builds or loadouts. (If you are going comp, that is when these mechs are vital to know about.)

I think one of the biggest things that get lost on these forums is the fact that this is still a game. No matter what people claim about stats (and I'm not disagreeing that better stats do result in more C-bills and experience), this is still a game that it's purpose is to have fun. For some people that literally will be to get as high on the leaderboards as possible. For many more of us, it's to find builds that we enjoy playing and to just play the game (often with friends). Neither path is incorrect, nor wrong.

I do not, and will not, fault anyone who aims to improve their stats and aim to be "the best of the best". However, I wish people also would stop faulting/blaming people who just want to play the game and not worry about their stats. There is plenty of room for each crowd within this game. We have PSR tiers for a reason after all.

---

In direct relation to this thread, I will support if someone wishes to try a joystick. I agree that it's not the optimal nor best interface for this game, but people can do well with it.

[Biomechtric]

@Tesunie.

I know of a player that amputated his right thumb & went about halfway through the finger next to it, it was re-attached but there is zero movement in his thumb & very little in the finger due to having all the nerves & tendons etc completely severed, his hand is also a very strange shape & in severe permanent pain now.
He uses a R.A.T 7 mouse as it is adjustable in width, height & length & it can be(kinda) made to fit his hand.
He is a very good player that has been a very active in MWO over the last few years, he has done a lot to help others over the years & his input for me at least has been of huge help.
He deserves a shout out for all he has done over the last few years & is also at the moment very, unwell & going through a very tough time this this injury & also from being poisoned by toxic black mold for the last 10 years(hidden behind the walls in his home).
Thank you doktorbike for all your help, you are proof that a seemingly impossible injury can be conquered.
Sorry for the slight derailment, it is about control systems after all.

[Tesunie]

Biomechtric, on 18 September 2019 - 02:23 PM, said:

...the attitude of 'me & only me matters' is bad, very bad for a team based game.

As an added note, I think taking it too far to "me and only me matters" as well as "Do what I say, or leave because you are ruining my fun" is wrong. There is a middle ground for each. I should not be forced to play a specific way, but at the same time I should be willing to do what I can for the team as a whole.

Going to either extreme of that scale is bad. One forces a very "me mentality", the other forces a "my way or the highway". Or, could also be seen as "I'll play my way, if you don't like it you can leave the game" to "Play my way or leave the game". As said, each taken to an extreme is bad.

In relation to the game, it's like taking what I classified as "troll" level builds out. An extreme "Me" person would without a thought because "it's fun". An extreme "TEAM" person would only take "meta" level builds because "I can't let down the team and must bring the best". A common ground approach means you avoid troll level builds, but still have room to experiment and take good level builds. (I hope this is making sense.)

[Paul Meyers DEST]

This game is teambased yes, but dont blame the Player, blame the game. If you are good enough you should NEVER EVER match against/or drop with a player that uses a Joystick.

[Tesunie]

Paul Meyers DEST, on 19 September 2019 - 04:41 AM, said:

This game is teambased yes, but dont blame the Player, blame the game. If you are good enough you should NEVER EVER match against/or drop with a player that uses a Joystick.

Unless they can achieve reliable and good performances with said Joystick.

And if you stick to only solo queue, as with GP PSR limits get greatly relaxed meaning T5s can drop with T1s and all the in betweens.

And presuming you get to T2 or better, and presuming Joystick users remain in T5...


Just saying. A lot of ifs and presumptions occur with your statement. It's also not know who does and doesn't use a joystick in this game, unless they admit it. There just isn't any data to prove nor disprove your statement.

[Paul Meyers DEST]

You get me wrong Tesunie.

Thats why i blame the game not the Player. I blame the MM to be total **** and crap. the whole Tier System is crap with its automated full bar Tier 1 if you just able to shoot straight.

[Tesunie]

Paul Meyers DEST, on 19 September 2019 - 11:44 PM, said:

You get me wrong Tesunie.

Thats why i blame the game not the Player. I blame the MM to be total **** and crap. the whole Tier System is crap with its automated full bar Tier 1 if you just able to shoot straight.

I'm just saying there isn't any datasets to indicate if using a joystick (after adjustment period of course) hinders performance in the game. I do imagine it does, but I know of some decent players that use a joystick. When I 1v1ed them in private lobby, I found their weakness wasn't accuracy (though they where better with ballistics than lasers I think) but was more tactical awareness and utilization of terrain, which are skills unrelated to joystick use.


As notation for MM, I do agree if could use some work. The basic system isn't bad overall, but there should be more ways to go down, and be based more heavily on match scores than winning or losing. My opinion on MM, W/L should almost be completely removed from the equation (with maybe a minor adjustments to the goalposts). Low match scores (0-150) should be negative results. Normal match scores (151-250) should be nutral progression. Then in increments for "good" (251-350ish) and "really good" (for every 100ish pts) match scores you gain. Higher match scores would result in faster movements. If you average, say, 600 match scores a match, you'd quickly see a sky rocket in PSR.

Right now, PSR is based very heavily on W/L, so winning more will propel you up. This is not exactly "player skill" related. True match score does have an influence, and higher match scores will progress you faster, but you could average a match score of 110 with a positive W/L and you'd go up to T1 after a long enough period of time.

Ideally, we'd also have smaller gaps in the separation to keep players more in their skill level pools. Rather than T3 being able to fight anyone, they should be fighting only 1 bracket away. However, we'd need a much larger and more stable pool of players for this to operate, or more flexible match sizes so smaller matches can be found...

[BROARL]

Paul Meyers DEST, on 19 September 2019 - 04:41 AM, said:

If you are good enough you should NEVER EVER match against/or drop with a player that uses a Joystick.

you mean people using a joystick for aiming, correct?
or do you mean joystick left hand and mouse right hand?
or do you mean an Xbox type control?
or an orbweaver or tartarus type thing?
or a flight sim?
or...?

...I am guessing you cannot use a joystick and have never actually operated anything heavier than a domestic vehicle.

*it's ok, you can point out i'm not in your games as evidence to support your theory. but once in your life before you die do try playing in a mechpod or sim cockpit because unless you are playing for prizemoneys on your keyboard I personally think you are missing out on a huge chunk of fun

Edited by BROARL, 20 September 2019 - 01:22 PM.

[General Solo]

Dar1ng One, on 17 September 2019 - 11:20 PM, said:

Nice to see. Players helping players. Now you just need to control you rage in game.

mmmmmmmm yes

When I RAGE, I'm helping dem too

You'll Rage when you get older

Its why I don't run voip much Muhahaha

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 20 September 2019 - 10:14 PM.