34 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Tesunie, on 26 September 2019 - 11:40 AM, said:

So you all good and I don't need to go into details? Or should I anyway?

You can just point me to the relevant patches, if you like. I don't mind doing my own reading, but PGI has always needed a database of current game rules - I shouldn't have to comb prior patches to find out how ECM works today. The game (or website) should just tell me. In any case, I looked over the patch notes specifically for ECM changes, but not knowing where/when/if they happened, I didn't find anything.

PS: A word on the Stalker - it's a great 'mech, but you'll need to use it differently than, say a Battlemaster or Thunderbolt. The reason is that that the Stalker's side torsos are really easy to destroy - from the side. From the Front, the Stalker spreads torso damage better than any 'mech remotely approaching its size; you just waggle your nose at the enemy between shots, but it's important to maintain a slight standoff distance and not twist too much. If you're looking to get into knife range and mix it up like a traditional Atlas-style Assault brawler, the Stalker will lose those side torsos with a quickness.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Clan ECM mechs that I personally prefer are the following...

1. Light Mech :- Kit Fox
Triple AMS, ECM, 5 ERML to make a solid support mech that has decent firepower and peeking capabilities. Plus it can have JJ and is agile.

Light Mech :- Arctic Cheetah
Can do a variety of builds but just know that it turns very slowly compared to other lights. So, if you're planning on making it a knife-fighter, make sure you don't mess up. I personally like ERSL + 2 SRM6s with ECM and use it as a hit-and-run mech.

2. Medium :- Arctic Wolf Prime
ECM, SRM 6 brawler with JJ. You can forgo the JJ to go with 5 SRM6s if you want.

Medium :- Black Lanner
ECM + MPLs or ERMLs. It runs a MASC for the extra burst of speed for some nice skirmishing.

3. Heavy :- Hellbringer
ECM, 2 Heavy LL + 4 ERML. Alpha strike and fall back into cover. Load the mech with DHS and strip armour in the legs. You can do 4 ERLL with ECM if you want but this is more slower as you can't alpha strike.

4. Assault :- Blood Asp
Go with Dakka i.e., 2 UAC 10 + 2 UAC5 or 1 UAC10 + 3 UAC5. ECM helps and you have great DPS.

IS Mechs :-

1. Light :- Flea 20
MASC, ECM, SPLs or SPLs + ERSL to not have to shave off armour.

Light :- Javelin 11B
ECM + SRM bomber. Very fun mech to play but lacks JJ that other Javelins have.

Light :- Wolfhound Grinner
ECM + Armour + Agility + Speed + firepower of 5 MPLs. This is a very, very deadly mech. One downside, if you have to pick, would be the lack of JJ. If you can afford this Hero mech, don't think twice.

Medium mech :- Griffin 2N
ECM + SRM brawler. This is pretty good.

As for other Medium mechs, I don't find any in this category particularly useful. There's the Enforce Ghillie that can do Gauss Riffle and so on but I wouldn't buy it. The Hellspawn Paralyzer has some potential 'cause it has some armour quirks and with ECM and JJ, can do a nice 6 MPLs skirmisher or you can try 2 MPL + 4 ERSL + 2 SRM 4 hit-and-run mech. It is fast enough to get in and out but the odd silhouette can be easy to hit.

Heavy Mechs :- Marauder 9M (s)
While you can't outright buy it, you can pick it up as a Loyalty reward I think. This is pretty nice as a MRM 60 5 MLs mech or if you don't mind the low arm mounts, you can play into its quirks and alpha strike 4 ERLLs.

Assault :- Hatamoto 28TR
If you can't get the Marauder 9M (s), then this will do nicely as it can play around with MRM 80 and 4 MLs. It can twist and shield well but it is slow and broad. But if you keep your distance and pick fights at around 300m, you can do pretty well. Just watch out for AMS. That'll ruin your day in this mech. You probably can do 2 Heavy PPCs and some odd combination as well to make use of the quirks.

Assault :- Stalker 3FB
You can do 6 LL or 6 ERLL with ECM and decent amount of DHS. The problem with this is that it can't turn fast but high arm hardpoints with torso hardpoints close by means that the convergence is pretty decent.

Assault :- Fafnir 5B
ECM + dual Heavy Gauss + MLs galore for a massive pinpoint damage. Just make sure that you don't get yourself isolated.

Assault :- Fafnir 5
I'd rather you try quad UAC 5 with ECM instead of RACs. It'll make it harder for enemies to spot you without a stream of bullets to give away your position. Quad UAC 5 is a very decent weapon loadout. But if you want to try RACs, then go with 2 RAC 2 + 2 UAC 10 as the RAC 2s can fire longer, have more range and run cooler.

[Tesunie]

Void Angel, on 26 September 2019 - 11:44 PM, said:

You can just point me to the relevant patches, if you like. I don't mind doing my own reading, but PGI has always needed a database of current game rules - I shouldn't have to comb prior patches to find out how ECM works today. The game (or website) should just tell me. In any case, I looked over the patch notes specifically for ECM changes, but not knowing where/when/if they happened, I didn't find anything.

I don't know the patch notes that they changed in, I just know how it runs at the moment.

Without skills:
ECM prevents detection from distances of about 800-600m. It spreads 90m around (last I knew) to include allies nearby.
ECM lengthens missile lock times greatly when someone is trying to get a lock on an indirect ECM target.
It will still lengthen missile lock times with direct line of sight, but not nearly as much as it does for indirect.
Any enemy under the effects of your ECM will have their missile locking system turned off, just like previously. This means that, unless a SSRM boat (for example) an AP of some kind, they will be unable to retaliate back still.
TAG still "punches through" the effects of ECM, but it less helpful on the missile locking unit itself now than previously. TAG will still reduce lock times, but only at a greater distance (as ECM effects reduce lock times the farther out they are, as targets farther out naturally have longer missile lock times anyway). TAG on a support unit will make missile locks happen and act like the locker has line of sight to the target, even if they don't.
TAG still gets "disabled" (for all intents and purposes) if the TAG user is under the influence of ECM themselves. TAG will not permit, in above example, a SSRM mech to get locks while under enemy ECM.

With Skills: (As same as above, except with noted differences)
ECM prevents detection from closer distances, making a target "appear unlock-able" closer to 600-400m I believe. This effect, like above, is passed to any allies under the ECM unit.


So, essentially, ECM is not as powerful as it was in the olden days. It's still handy to have around, but it isn't as vital as it once was. Unlike previously, where one could stand in the open unafraid of missile locks (LRMs) if they had ECM, now you can and will very much still get LRMed. However, ECM makes it easier to jump in and out of cover to break or prevent missile locks (combined with Radar Deprivation and it can make it nearly impossible to missile lock effectively, even on an assault trudging from cover to cover), as well as prevent the floating IFF indicator to the enemy team on your position from farther away.

As mentioned above as well, a target standing in the open with ECM will still get missile locked rather easily, especially if the missile mechs in question have direct line of sight. At that point, ECM is only delaying their locks by a small margin. So ECM mechs are still vulnerable to lock on missiles, but have some small portion of defense if used correctly with taking advantage of cover.

It's interaction with NARC remains unchanged. Get NARCed with ECM, and your ECM turns off. If an ally is NARC and gets under your ECM bubble, it will disable the NARC as long as they remain under your shield.

[Sneaky Ohgoorchik]

I want to point out for the TS.

I believe assaults actually better and easier choice for a new player. Like if a person completely new to the game general toughness, firepower and low mobility will help to survive, kill and to don't get into trouble. When I first start the game I bought an Urbanmech. And it cost me a lot of time and effort to make it a viable mech. And everything I spent on it (engines, little guns, etc) basically works only for it. A light mech brings you low income at start but basically the same amount of investment in the long run.

Also, I want to mention that Fafnir, or whatever assault you take goes better with double heavy gauss, or any other one-shot-then-cover build. The ability to one shot or cripple a mech would be better than the bullet rain. Facetime builds require you to stare at enemy a long time while applying damage. They are dangerous to your mech health. Ultra canons also doesn't shoot a single shell, but few of them, which makes them pretty terrible at damage application.

[Tesunie]

Sneaky Ohgoorchik, on 27 September 2019 - 09:36 AM, said:

I want to point out for the TS.

I believe assaults actually better and easier choice for a new player. Like if a person completely new to the game general toughness, firepower and low mobility will help to survive, kill and to don't get into trouble. When I first start the game I bought an Urbanmech. And it cost me a lot of time and effort to make it a viable mech. And everything I spent on it (engines, little guns, etc) basically works only for it. A light mech brings you low income at start but basically the same amount of investment in the long run.

Also, I want to mention that Fafnir, or whatever assault you take goes better with double heavy gauss, or any other one-shot-then-cover build. The ability to one shot or cripple a mech would be better than the bullet rain. Facetime builds require you to stare at enemy a long time while applying damage. They are dangerous to your mech health. Ultra canons also doesn't shoot a single shell, but few of them, which makes them pretty terrible at damage application.

Assaults are normally not recommended because they are large, slow and tend to fall behind and/or need knowledge of positioning. A solid medium or heavy are often more recommended because they tend to have enough health and firepower, with enough speed, that they are more forgiving to mistakes. Light mechs are also not recommended because, though fast and cheap to get, they don't have much health nor firepower. A single mistake with a light, and it tends to be game over. An assault, a single misstep, and you get torn apart because you can't retreat.

A medium or heavy mech often has enough speed and endurance to survive a misstep, while having enough weapons on it to make shooting mistakes more forgiving as well. However, I also will never tell someone that they can't try something. If a new player has their heart set on a light or assault, I'm not going to tell them no. I'll advise against it, but it may work out well for them.

[Ignatius Audene]

https://grimmechs.isengrim.org/

As a good start. Here u can find load outs that fit the current meta.
In general i would suggest a heavy as a first mech. Assaults (even more IS) are mostly to slow for yolo que and require very good map knowledge and situational awareness. And u need to carry hard in a assault to carry your weight. ECM is stronk in yolo que, but i would suggest to start with a non Ecm mech. Ecm might train u some bad habbits. Investment in at least 3 points of Radar deprevation is a good advice though. As a second mech i would suggest a medium mech srm bomb or medpulse to learn the torsomovement and engagement pathes.

And as always the most important tipps.
Turn down mouse sense like crazy. Mwo is a slow shooter and holding the laserbeam in one place is important.(on 700 dpi i suggest 0.2 in game).

Get a good group to learn the basics. Will save u much time (and is the best part of the game).

Forget the flanking manouver for the first 5000 matches. Then think about them and forget it for another 5000.

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 27 September 2019 - 09:47 AM.

[Void Angel]

Tesunie, on 27 September 2019 - 08:38 AM, said:

I don't know the patch notes that they changed in, I just know how it runs at the moment.

Without skills:
ECM prevents detection from distances of about 800-600m. It spreads 90m around (last I knew) to include allies nearby.
ECM lengthens missile lock times greatly when someone is trying to get a lock on an indirect ECM target.
It will still lengthen missile lock times with direct line of sight, but not nearly as much as it does for indirect.
Any enemy under the effects of your ECM will have their missile locking system turned off, just like previously. This means that, unless a SSRM boat (for example) an AP of some kind, they will be unable to retaliate back still.
TAG still "punches through" the effects of ECM, but it less helpful on the missile locking unit itself now than previously. TAG will still reduce lock times, but only at a greater distance (as ECM effects reduce lock times the farther out they are, as targets farther out naturally have longer missile lock times anyway). TAG on a support unit will make missile locks happen and act like the locker has line of sight to the target, even if they don't.
TAG still gets "disabled" (for all intents and purposes) if the TAG user is under the influence of ECM themselves. TAG will not permit, in above example, a SSRM mech to get locks while under enemy ECM.

With Skills: (As same as above, except with noted differences)
ECM prevents detection from closer distances, making a target "appear unlock-able" closer to 600-400m I believe. This effect, like above, is passed to any allies under the ECM unit.


So, essentially, ECM is not as powerful as it was in the olden days. It's still handy to have around, but it isn't as vital as it once was. Unlike previously, where one could stand in the open unafraid of missile locks (LRMs) if they had ECM, now you can and will very much still get LRMed. However, ECM makes it easier to jump in and out of cover to break or prevent missile locks (combined with Radar Deprivation and it can make it nearly impossible to missile lock effectively, even on an assault trudging from cover to cover), as well as prevent the floating IFF indicator to the enemy team on your position from farther away.

As mentioned above as well, a target standing in the open with ECM will still get missile locked rather easily, especially if the missile mechs in question have direct line of sight. At that point, ECM is only delaying their locks by a small margin. So ECM mechs are still vulnerable to lock on missiles, but have some small portion of defense if used correctly with taking advantage of cover.

It's interaction with NARC remains unchanged. Get NARCed with ECM, and your ECM turns off. If an ally is NARC and gets under your ECM bubble, it will disable the NARC as long as they remain under your shield.

Er, this looks almost exactly like the old functionality, from the tweaks just after the introduction of the skill tree. It's still reducing the spotting unit's effective sensor range to the ECM unit, getting partially countered by TAG and hard-countered by NARC. The way people talk, it's like a whole new ECM, but it seems like they just adjusted the 75% enemy senor range reduction down to 70% with skill nodes - I'd guess people are using it without all the nodes in the sensor tree, since other trees are more highly valued.

Thanks for the info, though. I appreciate it.

[Tesunie]

Void Angel, on 27 September 2019 - 09:56 PM, said:

Er, this looks almost exactly like the old functionality, from the tweaks just after the introduction of the skill tree. It's still reducing the spotting unit's effective sensor range to the ECM unit, getting partially countered by TAG and hard-countered by NARC. The way people talk, it's like a whole new ECM, but it seems like they just adjusted the 75% enemy senor range reduction down to 70% with skill nodes - I'd guess people are using it without all the nodes in the sensor tree, since other trees are more highly valued.

Thanks for the info, though. I appreciate it.

Basically, yes.

It's not as important as it once was back when it was first introduced (thankfully). It's now useful, but not "needed" like it once was.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Sneaky Ohgoorchik, on 27 September 2019 - 09:36 AM, said:

I want to point out for the TS.

I believe assaults actually better and easier choice for a new player. Like if a person completely new to the game general toughness, firepower and low mobility will help to survive, kill and to don't get into trouble. When I first start the game I bought an Urbanmech. And it cost me a lot of time and effort to make it a viable mech. And everything I spent on it (engines, little guns, etc) basically works only for it. A light mech brings you low income at start but basically the same amount of investment in the long run.

Also, I want to mention that Fafnir, or whatever assault you take goes better with double heavy gauss, or any other one-shot-then-cover build. The ability to one shot or cripple a mech would be better than the bullet rain. Facetime builds require you to stare at enemy a long time while applying damage. They are dangerous to your mech health. Ultra canons also doesn't shoot a single shell, but few of them, which makes them pretty terrible at damage application.

Please don't....

Assaults are probably the worst class to pick up for newcomers 'cause of the way people play this game. It's touted as "team oriented" and blah blah this and blah blah that. But, in all honesty, most people hide and run away at the first sight of trouble and leave the assaults helpless, not to mention the "Flanking" mentality that people exhibit where they constantly take up bad positions and don't fire at the enemies and don't help teammates either. Assaults are good if they're backed up by teammates.

[Ignatius Audene]

If u take ecm the ecm nodes are mandatory!
The one of the big changes to ecm was, that now it only slows down target lock for lrm. In old days it was complete jesus box.

[pomomojo]

If you're a newish player, the CDA-3M is wonderful for flanking with dual LL or ER LL and 2 ER med lasers. Add some UAVs are you become a solid recon mech/support mech.

[UnknownAlt]

HELLBRINGER is ideal for starters, and every/anyone else, don't recall why, but if you go ecm, you'll need the ECM skills. ECM has it's advantages, and main disadvantage of ecm is, if you feel the need to always have it.

if the mech in front of you is not blue in front of you . . SHOOT IT .. . seen many players that don't shoot that mech because it does not see a red square around it or can target it, also see players stop shooting mechs that over heat and shut down, that also loses the red, unless you're running BAP, which would show it's just a dead standing mech, Just shoot it
friendlies will always show blue, enemies not, part being ECM/Stealth or just shut down

dealing with a lot of ghost heat as a beginner, not recommended.

need to find where your comfortable, not what you think you like or desire for a build as the criteria for the build. don't disregard, a mech that only can do 30-40 alpha damage, again this comes to play style. A mech that can do 60 alpha with a heat efficiency of 60% or higher will most likely out damage that 100 alpha with 42% heat efficiency
Knowing the map, allows one to run a hotter mech, getting stuck in brawl range against a brawler, and you're in a hot mech .. panic moment, you may over heat you're self and shut down

find your comfort zone then go for the destroy others

[Sneaky Ohgoorchik]

UnknownAlt, on 06 October 2019 - 03:32 PM, said:

HELLBRINGER is ideal for starters, and every/anyone else, don't recall why, but if you go ecm, you'll need the ECM skills. ECM has it's advantages, and main disadvantage of ecm is, if you feel the need to always have it.

if the mech in front of you is not blue in front of you . . SHOOT IT .. . seen many players that don't shoot that mech because it does not see a red square around it or can target it, also see players stop shooting mechs that over heat and shut down, that also loses the red, unless you're running BAP, which would show it's just a dead standing mech, Just shoot it
friendlies will always show blue, enemies not, part being ECM/Stealth or just shut down

dealing with a lot of ghost heat as a beginner, not recommended.

need to find where your comfortable, not what you think you like or desire for a build as the criteria for the build. don't disregard, a mech that only can do 30-40 alpha damage, again this comes to play style. A mech that can do 60 alpha with a heat efficiency of 60% or higher will most likely out damage that 100 alpha with 42% heat efficiency
Knowing the map, allows one to run a hotter mech, getting stuck in brawl range against a brawler, and you're in a hot mech .. panic moment, you may over heat you're self and shut down

find your comfort zone then go for the destroy others

The first thought was: an average 100 alpha mechwarior needs to land only one shot, before your 60% heat efficiency jumps to 100%. You need like 4 shots before their get to 60%.

Sorry, but There is no "your style" in this game.

[Xaat Xuun]

Sneaky Ohgoorchik, on 07 October 2019 - 07:09 AM, said:

The first thought was: an average 100 alpha mechwarior needs to land only one shot, before your 60% heat efficiency jumps to 100%. You need like 4 shots before their get to 60%.

Sorry, but There is no "your style" in this game.

yes we know your sorry

call it Technique or style, to think every one is alike is just arrogant

[Rioting Baboon]

As a new player, I spoiled myself with fast, nimble, jump-capable mechs. It allowed me to shoot, reposition, and run away if I made a boo-boo.

I say spoiled because when the time came to learn to use slower more armored mechs, I had a hell of a time and had to go back to being a skrub and a potato. (Event rewards forced me to learn!)

I'm nowhere near the skill level of some of the other guys here but I can tell you that you'll want to start out with a heavy mech and learn patience, timing, and positioning.

You could go with the clan heavies that average better speeds than their IS counterparts (Hellbringer, Ebon Jaguar)

You could also go with IS heavies that are a bit slower but have slightly better armor. My current favorite is the Warhammer.

Alternatively, you can go with a tanky medium mech like the Bushwacker (X1) or Vapor Eagle.

Get it to the point where you are helpful to your team. Pick out that one guy that seems to know what they are doing (not running off alone) and support them.