39 replies to this topic

[General Solo]

Kol Koontz, on 26 September 2019 - 08:05 PM, said:

Yeah they certainly don't show what time of day you play at or show when you are getting a bunch of 30-50 percentile players to drop with you.

Don't get me wrong, Baradul is a strong brawler. But I completely agree with you when you say stats don't show everything.

Lets say you out traded someone stat wise who is better
the stats dont show that

I like the guy coz he a community guy
I like that

Seeing others have the need to knock him is sad.
Baradul caters to a different crowd/segment and his advice is for them , Im guessing.

Like the highly efficent filthy casual brigade (me)
Minimal effort, maximum results and fun is a given
Coz killin people with higher stats in solo queue is priceless

If u wanna be EMP level their are places for that, for others with less commitment (I dont need another job)
The advice in the op was solid and I have said the same stuff my self many times.

Its like this, basically opportunities missed are lost forever.
Not missing opportunities means your maximize your effect (Ignore the don't Bla bla)
Avoiding missed opportunities from a certain point of view, is TAKING THE INITIATIVE. (my view )

If you miss 5 opportunities with 50 alpha mech, dats possible 250 damage not applied and missed FOR EVA.
Or taken extra 250 DAM ARGE YAY

IMO

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 26 September 2019 - 08:28 PM.

[L057FUNC710N]

OZHomerOZ, on 26 September 2019 - 08:14 PM, said:

Lets say you out traded someone stat wise who is better
the stats dont show that

I like the guy coz he a community guy
I like that

Seeing others have the need to knock him is sad.
Baradul caters to a different crowd/segment and his advice is for them , Im guessing.

Like the highly efficent filthy casual brigade (me)
Minimal effort, maximum results and fun is a given
Coz killin people with higher stats in solo queue is priceless

If u wanna be EMP level their are places for that, for others with less commitment (I dont need another job)
The advice in the op was solid and I have said the same stuff my self many times.

Its like this, basically opportunities missed are lost forever.
Not missing opportunities means your maximize your effect (Ignore the don't Bla bla)
Avoiding missed opportunities from a certain point of view, is TAKING THE INITIATIVE. (my view )

If you miss 5 opportunities with 50 alpha mech, dats possible 250 damage not applied and missed FOR EVA.
Or taken extra 250 DAM ARGE YAY

IMO

It's all perspective as far as community. However when you only have limited experience and see the game in a very narrow window you can give some really awful advice at times.

There is a whole lot more to this game than just mindlessly pushing w, and my point is you can do the community a disservice by not embracing all the various nuances in the game.

It's why I'd give guys like Pseudo98 or CycloneJack a great deal more credit for being much more well rounded. Comp/CW/Yolo queue is something those guys have participated in. Gives them a much greater reach and a much broader overall perspective. So I am not so much as knocking Baradul down, as much as saying there needs to be some perspective and consideration to what he says and advice he gives. I think that is at least fair and honest.

[Vxheous]

Carpenocturn, on 26 September 2019 - 06:44 PM, said:

Map control cannot be gained or maintained without eyes on the target of some sort. UAV = highest ground advantage, sky in this case. High ground = high ground advantage. Same level = no advantage disadvantage = attrition. low ground = no advantage.

I take it you mean Nascar(NSR), just a few letters more and no one would be in doubt?

Trading is usualy attrition warfare and strikes me as suboptimal.
One players does 100 damage all over anothers mech and the other player does 100 damage all over theirs = no result.
One player does 100 damage to the other players mechs back however = result

Nascar is not what I am referring to as I would hope a resoning individual would conclude as this refers to both teams chasing each others tails until one team chews the other teams slow movers down and then finishes off the remainder.

No, NSR does not mean nascar, it means No Skill Rush. This applies to those that hold down W and mindlessly lemming charge into the opposition until either they are dead or their opponent is. We use it in a derogatory fashion because those that typically NSR are the ones that cant hit a mech outside 50m and require literal facehugging to kill their targets.

Also, you are wrong about trading, it is the most optimal way to play. Holding proper angles and out trading the opposition is how ~80% of high level play is won (I attribute the last 20% to being able to properly rotate positions, maintain cap superiority, proper scouting of lanes which leads to proper positioning). The reason you don't see it happen very often in solo queue is because even if most players are in proper position to punish the opposition, they either 1. Can't hit the broadside of a barn, or 2. Don't realize their advantageous position and move too early, or 3. Can't trust the rest of the team to know how to hold their positions.

There's a reason why when high level comp teams would occasionally drop into group queue with more than 6 players, they would roll their opposition 12-0, 12-1 usually inside 3 minutes. They understand the map, the power positions, and just focus fire lemmings that don't have a clue. There's usually almost no actual communication about the gameplay, most are usually telling jokes or talking about non-related stuff as they just kill everything (it's not fun, and that's why you never see more than 3-4 EmP grouped up if even that number).

In fact, it's so not fun that outside of the 2-3 times/week we get together for 2 hours to practice internal games (private lobbies) 95% of my team doesn't even play MWO anymore. That's right, for those saying playing comp is like a second job, the bulk of EmP players play ~6 hrs of this game a week, and has been for over a year+. Pretty sure many of you still playing this game put in far more hours a week, yet remain far worse at playing it.

Edited by Vxheous, 27 September 2019 - 05:13 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Baradul openly says that he doesn't like FW or any of the modes that get competitive. He drops solo and brings in his viewers during the Sunday Community Drops to play together.

We should be thinking of Baradul as the guy who brings in new people and the guys from GrimMechs as the pros who discover the meta builds. Bara doesn't claim to be a pro but he's knowledgeable and makes some of the weirdest builds work half the time or at least some of the time and his Daily Dose videos are entertaining.

It's like this... the car shows like the old Top Gear had Presenters who know how to drive fast and get around a track WHILE talking about the said car but they'd get the pros involved to truly test the car and set lap times on race tracks. I don't think we should knocking either one of those types of people.

[MrXanthios]

roflmao

as if fw means anything at all

[L057FUNC710N]

MrXanthios, on 26 September 2019 - 10:21 PM, said:

roflmao

as if fw means anything at all

Sure it means something.

Solo queue is the absolute lowest form of the game. So if a streamer is always talking about teamwork and positioning and effective tactics, then proceeds to get absolutely roflstomped and declares he doesn't like it....it means that tactical genius in yolo queue might actually not have a clue.

[PhoenixFire55]

I always find these "opinions" so very funny and somehow so very irrelevant most of the time. And it goes for both the guy in the video and people on the forum.

There is simply NO general answer to what is best. Because everything depends on circumstances, such as for example mechs and builds that people on your team have. Which in QP you have no knowledge of and no control of. Thus "holding the firing line at a perfect position with 12 mechs" might very well mean "3 mechs holding good firing lines and 9 mechs just standing around because they have no range to shoot into those lanes they are supposed to.

Aggression allows everyone on your team to choose the range of engagement for themselves, brawlers are going to facewreck up close, while mid-range, lurm-spam and snipers can easily follow and form a 2nd line right behind brawlers and rotate armor with the front line when it becomes necessary. While being passive and "holding good position" for short range mechs just means standing around and waiting till people who have range get outtraded and die.

The simple undisputable concept you have to understand is that the side that has all its mechs shooting the enemy all the time at their optimal weapon ranges is the side that is going to win the match. Period. Passively holding position doesn't guarantee that. Aggressively pressuring the enemy and dictating your terms of engagement does and in an environment where mechs on your team and their builds are pretty much random its the only way.

For a player launching QP it means the same simple thing. It doesn't matter what your team does, whether its aggressive, passive or ret*rded, what matters is that YOU shoot the enemy all the time, at your mech optimal range. If you do that it means you do everything to maximize your chances of winning the match.

If you got a long range mech you can shoot from wherever, but in order to make a next step in mech-kung-fu-mastery you have to be able to understand that there will be mechs on your team that can't and need to be close and need to shoot, and that you have to adjust accordingly to maximize winning. Because two mechs shooting at optimal or much shorter than optimal range and armor-pooling is ways better than just one mech shooting at optimal range and armor-pooling.

[Burning2nd]

Prototelis, on 26 September 2019 - 04:40 PM, said:

1. Highground doesn't = win.

and yet here you guys are..
"take the top!"

oh and "press R"

"protect the fattys!"

"dont nascar!"

call me when you guys learn to locust

[L057FUNC710N]

Burning2nd, on 27 September 2019 - 02:10 AM, said:

and yet here you guys are..
"take the top!"

oh and "press R"

"protect the fattys!"

"dont nascar!"

call me when you guys learn to locust

LOL

You first.

[Prototelis]

Burning2nd, on 27 September 2019 - 02:10 AM, said:

and yet here you guys are..
"take the top!"

oh and "press R"

"protect the fattys!"

"dont nascar!"

I haven't said any of those things in this thread.

Quote

call me when you guys learn to locust

lol.

Call me when you learn.

[Novakaine]

[Vxheous]

Novakaine, on 27 September 2019 - 04:49 AM, said:

All I see is Jarl Dane checking a blind corner with his face

[Burning2nd]

Prototelis, on 27 September 2019 - 04:25 AM, said:

I haven't said any of those things in this thread.



lol.

Call me when you learn.

sorry page 4.... i havent really been playing much... but page 4 nether the less

[thievingmagpi]

OZHomerOZ, on 26 September 2019 - 08:14 PM, said:

Seeing others have the need to knock him is sad.
Baradul caters to a different crowd/segment and his advice is for them , Im guessing.

The mentality that there are "different communities" is pretty detrimental to the state of the game, at least as far as QP and/or FP goes. There is one game. There isn't a disparate set of rules or systems. It makes no sense to have different tactics or advice for different segments of the community. There is only one set. Giving people bad advice because they aren't interested in comp leads to bad players. It leads to bad matches. It leads to dead games. When you teach kids to play baseball you don't say "hey, I know you're not interested in ever playing in the Major League, so put your glove on backwards, leave your shoes untied and make sure to just never follow through with the throw. Just play for fun". No, you teach them the rudiments that are the fundamental basis for every good player.

OZHomerOZ, on 26 September 2019 - 08:14 PM, said:

Like the highly efficent filthy casual brigade (me)
Minimal effort, maximum results and fun is a given
Coz killin people with higher stats in solo queue is priceless

Dunno what this means really, most people are minimal effort.

OZHomerOZ, on 26 September 2019 - 08:14 PM, said:

If u wanna be EMP level their are places for that, for others with less commitment (I dont need another job)
The advice in the op was solid and I have said the same stuff my self many times.

You've played more games than any member of EMP and have played more games than several EMP members combined.

[General Solo]

thievingmagpi, on 27 September 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

The mentality that there are "different communities" is pretty detrimental to the state of the game,

Hey I never said different communities, thats what you said.
I said segment which means "part of" our community.

Did you know some segments are really, really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,
good at this game.

Other segments aka parts of our community are not as good.

Advice for one segment may not be the best advice for another segment because they may have not mastered the fundamentals of the game yet.

Edit: And teaching fundamentals to the masters of the game may not be welcomed

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 27 September 2019 - 08:09 AM.

[General Solo]

thievingmagpi, on 27 September 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

Dunno what this means really, most people are minimal effort.

It means Baraduls advice is not meant for mighty comp type players and is more tailored for us mere peasants

thievingmagpi, on 27 September 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

You've played more games than any member of EMP and have played more games than several EMP members combined.

52498 and counting, Hey I beat EMP at something

YAY

[thievingmagpi]

OZHomerOZ, on 27 September 2019 - 07:57 AM, said:

Hey I never said different communities, thats what you said.
I said segment which means "part of" our community.

Yep, irrelevant, it is the exact same in meaning and result. You'll also notice the use of scare quotes.

OZHomerOZ, on 27 September 2019 - 07:57 AM, said:

Did you know some segments are really, really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,really,
good at this game.

Not really.

OZHomerOZ, on 27 September 2019 - 07:57 AM, said:

Other segments aka parts of our community are not as good.

Aka most.

OZHomerOZ, on 27 September 2019 - 07:57 AM, said:

Advice for one segment may not be the best advice for another segment because they may have not mastered the fundamentals of the game yet.

enemy weapon cooldown timing, jj feathering, lots of tactics that wouldn't be much use for "new" players. you don't, however, teach new or "casual" players bad habits.

there isn't any advice that can be given to "bad players" that isn't applicable for all players.

OZHomerOZ, on 27 September 2019 - 07:57 AM, said:

Edit: And teaching fundamentals to the masters of the game may not be welcomed

no "masters of the game" are watching Baradul for advice.

OZHomerOZ, on 27 September 2019 - 08:07 AM, said:

It means Baraduls advice is not meant for mighty comp type players and is more tailored for us mere peasants

there isn't any advice that can be given to "bad players" that isn't applicable for all players.

Edited by thievingmagpi, 27 September 2019 - 08:23 AM.

[General Solo]

thievingmagpi, on 27 September 2019 - 08:22 AM, said:

Yep, irrelevant, it is the exact same in meaning and result. You'll also notice the use of scare quotes.

Yep totally relevant and thanks for sharing your opinion

Segment = each of the parts into which something is or may be divided

thievingmagpi, on 27 September 2019 - 08:22 AM, said:

Not really.

So the 99% segment are not really really good at the game compared to say the rest, especially the lower 50%.
Thats news to me!

thievingmagpi, on 27 September 2019 - 08:22 AM, said:

no "masters of the game" are watching Baradul for advice.

You don't say, Fasinating.
Are you suggesting that I said that.

Leave your baggage at the door next time.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 27 September 2019 - 09:42 AM.

[thievingmagpi]

OZHomerOZ, on 27 September 2019 - 09:32 AM, said:

Yep totally relevant and thanks for sharing your opinion



Segment = each of the parts into which something is or may be divided

Just like communities.

Oof.

OZHomerOZ, on 27 September 2019 - 09:32 AM, said:

So the 99% segment are not really really good at the game compared to say the rest, especially the lower 50%.
Thats news to me!

You should perhaps re-read your own quote. Don't worry, I quoted it so you can't go back and change it.

OZHomerOZ, on 27 September 2019 - 09:32 AM, said:

You don't say, Fasinating.
Are you suggesting that I said that.

Feel free to go ahead and read what you yourself typed.

[General Solo]

No you feel freely, go on feel away

Don't over do it doh

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 27 September 2019 - 10:08 AM.