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Teams Using Spectator Mode In Solaris

Solaris Exploit Fix

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#21 justcallme A S H

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 08:35 PM

View PostTesunie, on 06 November 2019 - 07:05 PM, said:


Showing a list of people spectating would only provide a list of potential "suspects" when placing a report. Proving if it's happening would be something completely different. As a player, we can't prove anything and have no ability to do anything about it. It, basically, could provide a list you could report to PGI and let them sort it out. (Of course, this is presuming that PGI doesn't already maintain a list of spectators as part of the match results on their end...)

I would like to mention, I'm not here saying if it is, or is not, happening. I'm merely acknowledging that this does seem to be a possibility, and the best counter defense to it would be to place some kind of delay on the spectators to prevent this from actually even being able to be done (if possible).


I've seen low skill players report me game after game on their streams for hacking/expoiting etc etc. Of course I've not had ANY penalty in that area because it is not true.

Also as a player you can absolutely prove things and do something about it. I've proven/reported many win traders because I actually know what I'm looking at and I know they've been given just deserves.

Most players mashing the report button do so simply because they were DUNKED on, hard. So they false report because they believe things were unfair because they have absolutely no idea. That's just the fact of the matter.

Hell friends of mine have been spam/report abused by other units/groups for no reason than they got dunked on, hard. Said friends have ended up with incorrect suspensions (albeit temporary/short). Even I've been victim to it, and had it consequentially overturned. But the fact you have to go through this process because of some upset Mechdad that can't handle being dunked on is utterly absurd.

There are already enough fake/false reports on a daily basis in this game/community from in-game play, sooking on the forums because you're proven to be a liar etc etc.. The game/community/top players does not need yet anothre avenue for more of that cry-baby behaviour.

If you suspect cheating - Submit a Match ID to PGI and let them look into it. The end.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 06 November 2019 - 08:39 PM.


#22 Prototelis

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 09:50 PM

View PostTesunie, on 06 November 2019 - 07:30 PM, said:

If it's a concern there, why isn't it a concern here?


It isn't a concern here because it more than likely straight up isn't happening lol.

#23 Dar1ngOne

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 02:45 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 06 November 2019 - 08:35 PM, said:


Blah Blah Blah removed, pointless ego trumpeting.

If you suspect cheating - Submit a Match ID to PGI and let them look into it.


^This is probably the most logical, and correct course of action.

#24 Kinski Orlawisch

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 05:04 AM

On Twitch you can hear the instructor from spectator mode giving advise where they have to move.....

#25 Tesunie

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 07:14 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 06 November 2019 - 08:35 PM, said:

If you suspect cheating - Submit a Match ID to PGI and let them look into it. The end.

View PostDar1ngOne, on 07 November 2019 - 02:45 AM, said:

^This is probably the most logical, and correct course of action.


Quoted these two, because that is correct.

My only question would be if anyone knows or can confirm if a list of spectators is saved with the match ID on PGI's side (for the purpose of this kind of reporting). (I suspect they do, but don't know for certain.) Otherwise, "Reporting this kind of suspicious activity" will have very limiting results.

View PostKinski Orlawisch, on 07 November 2019 - 05:04 AM, said:

On Twitch you can hear the instructor from spectator mode giving advise where they have to move.....


I'm going to presume you aren't talking about the automated announcer...

If you are actively observing this on a stream, I'd recommend reporting the match ID from the stream, the stream's web address and send a report to PGI about it. That would be a slam dunk proof that this is not only a possibility, but is actively happening within Solaris matches.

View PostPrototelis, on 06 November 2019 - 09:50 PM, said:

It isn't a concern here because it more than likely straight up isn't happening lol.


I think someone is too busy ruffling their tinfoil to understand some people's desire to win... Some people wish to win "at any cost". If this wasn't the case, then we shouldn't have to worry about cheats and bots because no one would be doing it... But we know some people in fact do use "questionable resources" to gain an unfair advantage against their fellow players. (Admittedly, some people is a very small population. This is by no means saying "most" or "all", only what is said which is "some".)

#26 Prototelis

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 09:06 AM

View PostTesunie, on 07 November 2019 - 07:14 AM, said:


I think someone is too busy ruffling their tinfoil to understand some people's desire to win..


I think you and a lot of people playing this game are hung up on what you think is possible with a lot of talent and practice; and I don't trust people to with the reaction time of a brick to engage in witch hunts against what they think shouldn't be possible.

#27 Tesunie

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 09:13 AM

View PostPrototelis, on 07 November 2019 - 09:06 AM, said:

I think you and a lot of people playing this game are hung up on what you think is possible with a lot of talent and practice; and I don't trust people to with the reaction time of a brick to engage in witch hunts against what they think shouldn't be possible.


You... still haven't read what's been posted. Have you? Because if you did, you would realize that's not what is being talked about at all...

Then again, if you haven't read what's been typed, I'm starting to wonder why you are posting and what you think you are contributing to this discussion?

#28 Prototelis

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 09:15 AM

I unfortunately read all of OPs waffling.

#29 Tesunie

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 09:32 AM

View PostPrototelis, on 07 November 2019 - 09:15 AM, said:

I unfortunately read all of OPs waffling.


And now you can't quote magically... Wow... Classic. About as classic as your "tinfoil" argument.

OP claims to have seen something strange happening.

I've been only making mentioning of if it is a possibility.

You've ignored all of what I seemed to have typed, or refuse to respond to any of it in a meaningful way.

View PostPrototelis, on 06 November 2019 - 09:50 PM, said:

It isn't a concern here because it more than likely straight up isn't happening lol.


This basically says "It might be happening, but I don't care". That's fine if you don't care, but if you don't care if this possible exploit is in the game or if it is being used (not saying it is, again). If you don't care so much, then why are you posting?

View PostPrototelis, on 07 November 2019 - 09:06 AM, said:

I think you and a lot of people playing this game are hung up on what you think is possible with a lot of talent and practice; and I don't trust people to with the reaction time of a brick to engage in witch hunts against what they think shouldn't be possible.


And then you resort to a "personal" attack about how I have "the reaction time of a brick". Somehow, you seem to think you know a lot about me... I'm only acknowledging that what the OP has posted appears to be an actual possibility.


I'd equate this "spectator exploit" to be on the lines of security. If you have a building (say, a museum) you own, run, or work for... and you know that the security for your back loading bay is down and the bay doors are left wide open, do you leave them open so anyone can get into your building? Or do you close the bay door and activate the security system when you leave/close?

If this is a possibility, steps should be taken to make sure it can't be abused. Then again, as Ash stated, if you suspect foul play just report the match ID to PGI and include what you think went wonky. Let PGI do the investigating, as they have more tools for the job than we do.


As a final note: Maybe this is happening. Maybe it isn't. I personally don't know. If it is an actual real possibility though, I do believe that steps should be taken to minimize it's impact on the game.

#30 Tesunie

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 12:11 PM

View PostSurn, on 02 November 2019 - 08:18 AM, said:

I was spectating and had the mechs colored by Q, so I could see the locust. Each time the locust hid or began to attack, the comp player turned exactly in its direction from any distance as if someone was on coms feeding info. If this happened a couple times, I could chalk it up to anticipation, but no, it happened consistently.
The advantage you have as a PUG is that you don't have to win every game...they do


I will comment, though I do see what you mean, it may also be a possibility that said players are using the "command wheel" to "Target Spotted" on said opponent, which leaves a sensor trail on the map even after lock is lost (or even if stealth would prevent a lock completely). It could account for the behavior you are seeing.

I'll also comment that, what you observe could also be what you suspect. I have no way of knowing.

#31 Horseman

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 12:52 PM

View PostTesunie, on 07 November 2019 - 12:11 PM, said:

I will comment, though I do see what you mean, it may also be a possibility that said players are using the "command wheel" to "Target Spotted" on said opponent, which leaves a sensor trail on the map even after lock is lost (or even if stealth would prevent a lock completely). It could account for the behavior you are seeing.
It is not a possibility, that was removed after first Solaris season.

#32 Tesunie

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 12:57 PM

View PostHorseman, on 07 November 2019 - 12:52 PM, said:

It is not a possibility, that was removed after first Solaris season.


Then, either it's "good prediction abilities", "blind luck", or "someone is playing at being a downgraded, indestructible, mobile UAV"? Unless some other options exist?

I don't honestly pay much attention to Solaris game mode, but I can certainly understand why the "Target Spotted" functionality would be removed.

#33 Horseman

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 03:01 PM

View PostTesunie, on 07 November 2019 - 12:57 PM, said:

Then, either it's "good prediction abilities", "blind luck", or "someone is playing at being a downgraded, indestructible, mobile UAV"? Unless some other options exist?

If the range was close enough, either seismic sensor or just listening to the opponents' footsteps (I do the latter a LOT on Ishiyama and Factory)

Edited by Horseman, 07 November 2019 - 03:02 PM.


#34 Kinski Orlawisch

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 03:15 PM

Its not a cheat. It is not a bug. It is a feature. Just position your Laptop next to your PC and lock into your own game as spectator. It is not forbidden.
You can t hide in Solaris. I don t do it, cause mostly it is not the reason why we won or lost.

In High End...YES it is a factor. But who cares? Solaris is an empty playground. Humbel Dexter reached place 1 in one Division with 1 win and 24 losses.......something like that....Why? Cause he was the first finished with 25 games..and this season in 2vs2 ..I don t think that more than 10 players will finish 25 games in any Division.

#35 Tesunie

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 03:49 PM

View PostHorseman, on 07 November 2019 - 03:01 PM, said:

If the range was close enough, either seismic sensor or just listening to the opponents' footsteps (I do the latter a LOT on Ishiyama and Factory)


Using abilities and being observant of your surroundings I would consider part of "prediction abilities". Using such tools is good, and is skill related. Maybe that is what is happening, and the OP isn't aware people are using these aspects to locate him (and others).

Then again...

View PostKinski Orlawisch, on 07 November 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

Its not a cheat. It is not a bug. It is a feature. Just position your Laptop next to your PC and lock into your own game as spectator. It is not forbidden.


It's called an exploit and against the ToS and CoC for playing this game. That would be abusing/utilizing an alternative "false" account to achieve an advantage over another player. So, it isn't a feature but is in fact a form of "cheating".

So, yeah. It actually is forbidden.

#36 justcallme A S H

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 05:27 PM

View PostTesunie, on 07 November 2019 - 12:57 PM, said:


Then, either it's "good prediction abilities", "blind luck", or "someone is playing at being a downgraded, indestructible, mobile UAV"? Unless some other options exist?

I don't honestly pay much attention to Solaris game mode, but I can certainly understand why the "Target Spotted" functionality would be removed.



So why are you here supporting a design change based upon nothing but a story, a story about something that may or may not have even happened? Posted Image

The mode is dead. PGI aren't going to put any Dev time into a suggestion (spectator list) that won't achieve a single thing. Hell we've had the same decals and warhorns for many seasons, if that isn't the clear indication that nothing is gonna happen - I dunno what is.

Just seems entirely pointless for a 1% of 1%.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 07 November 2019 - 05:28 PM.


#37 Tesunie

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 05:44 PM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 07 November 2019 - 05:27 PM, said:



So why are you here supporting a design change based upon nothing but a story, a story about something that may or may not have even happened? Posted Image

The mode is dead. PGI aren't going to put any Dev time into a suggestion (spectator list) that won't achieve a single thing. Hell we've had the same decals and warhorns for many seasons, if that isn't the clear indication that nothing is gonna happen - I dunno what is.

Just seems entirely pointless for a 1% of 1%.


I'm more concerned with "is it possible" and "If it's possible, what can we do to prevent it". As such, I actually agree with you for the most part. A spectator list probably wouldn't be worth while. A spectator count to show how many people are spectating a match (if it isn't already in, I don't honestly know) might be worth it so people can see how many others are actually spectating.

My question is more so, does PGI log in spectator IDs into the match logs? If so, then just report the match ID to PGI with an explanation of what you suspect to be the problem. If PGI doesn't log this (I doubt they wouldn't), then it might be a good idea to get it logged.

I'm merely supporting the notion that this seems to be a possibility, and if it is that something should change to make it more difficult to (hopefully) impossible to do, or if it isn't able to be reported at the moment (PGI doesn't log spectator IDs for example), then it needs to be better tracked so it can be reported if abuse is suspected. This may actually mean that no change is needed, and you just report the match ID to PGI (if they log spectator IDs).

Just to say it for clarity, I'm not saying this is happening. I'm just nodding that it seems like a possibility, and could be considered game breaking to this game mode if anyone takes advantage of it. (For the record, I actually think Solaris game mode is interesting... but I don't believe it was anything this game needed. If it was removed, I know I would not cry. If I want to 1v1 or 2v2 someone, I'd be more likely to do it in a private lobby. Most likely with friends.)

#38 justcallme A S H

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 05:51 PM

PGI would be logging it for sure. There is actually an insane amount of data they do get. Chatting to Paul last year opened my eyes a bit to the sheer volume of it. It would be there.

Issue is they just arent gonna do anything IMO. I mean if we cant get Mech mobilty fixed, after 2 years PGI only attended to ~30% of the mechs with issues - and this stuff affects the entire playerbase/enjoyment of mechs - what hope is there for a basically dead game mode with a few 100 players each quarter vs the 10s of thousands in QP?

That's just how I approach every situation with a time / cost / effort as the measure of efficnency, but it applies far and wide to more than just efficiency.

#39 LeucippusK

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 06:38 PM

I spectate matches all the time and never say a word. I did spectate a match yesterday where this one player was close to losing and trolled their opponent for the last 5 minutes of the match while one shot away from death. Did that to them 3 matches in a row. Trolled them the whole time being disrespectful. Kudos to his opponent for not saying anything back. This one particular pilot had 29 ties!

#40 Horseman

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Posted 10 November 2019 - 01:38 AM

View PostLeucippusK, on 09 November 2019 - 06:38 PM, said:

I spectate matches all the time and never say a word. I did spectate a match yesterday where this one player was close to losing and trolled their opponent for the last 5 minutes of the match while one shot away from death. Did that to them 3 matches in a row. Trolled them the whole time being disrespectful. Kudos to his opponent for not saying anything back. This one particular pilot had 29 ties!

Do you have any screenshots / recordings of these matches that you could send on priv? I'm fairly sure I know who you're talking about and I'm getting the sense it's about damn time to send a ticket - or two - to moderation about it.





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