41 replies to this topic

[The ImpIication]

Hazeclaw, on 12 November 2019 - 09:19 AM, said:

It was a bad map, and heat had nothing to do with it. It was basically just a race to the center, and then a painful prolonged match as the team that got there 2nd tried to force their way up through a choke point into a firing line and failed 9/10 times

Sound just like mining, which is apparently everyone's favorite map

[LordNothing]

Vorpal Puppy, on 12 November 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

Sounds fine to me, but almost no one votes for the new Terra Therma when it comes up, so its not like we will see it after the first weekend. Would be fun though for running a stealth flea/locust with black camo.

Edit- typeo

i always stack votes to get the seldom used maps some play. im sure it will find its way into rotation.

[Jobalisk]

BTW, as someone who doesn’t frequent the forums much (and isn’t from the US). Can someone explain to me what a NASCAR map is. I understand what NASCAR racing is (although I’d be damned if I understood how people can enjoy watching car race around a featureless oval for hours on end.) I just dont get it as a MWO term.

[Dee Eight]

Well due to PGI's insistence in putting high pieces of the ground at the center of maps, which most players are afraid to actually make an effort to take and hold let alone risk damage to themselves, what happens is then the opposing teams both performing a nascar race (including the turning left / counter clockwise fashion) around that point rather than go straight across at their enemy.

What's worse... is because it has become soooo ingrained a thought process, that almost every map turns into a nascar map regardless of where the teams actually meet, and regardless of mode also. This is why for example, if its assault mode for example on Crimson Strait, the team that drops Hotel 4 to Golf 3 area will nascar over the saddle pass straight to the enemy base about 80-90% of the time and the team that drops Charlie 6 back to Delta 8 will nascar towards the city instead of just setting up a firing line and waiting for the enemy to come over the crest of the saddle and massacre them. And that team usually loses as a result because the team that went over the saddle pass had a shorter path to the enemy base. PGI made that worse to defend against when they made the top areas of the E6 mountain out of bounds to satisfy the complaining of a handful of forum whiners.

[Jobalisk]

Ah right. But i mean I’ve been playing this game since 2013/14. The crimson straight thing has always been a thing. But it seems only recently that the phrase caught on. As for me, I play lights 70-80% of the time so I cant say that the whole nascar thing has ever been much of a trend for me.

[Vellron2005]

Jobalisk, on 12 November 2019 - 03:21 AM, said:

Hey all. Not sure if anyone else is feeling this but the newer version of terra therma, and caustic valley/river city for that matter, are just not as good as the old ones, are we going to see a classic remake of these anytime soon like forest colony or frozen city?

Old Terra Therma was offered boring, static peek-poke gameplay that favored only certain builds and should not be re-implemented.

Old Caustic was more-less the same gameplay as the new one, but in a smaller format. No need to re-implement it. But I would like to see the new one have the old one's green filter returned. Cose' the new one has none of the "caustic" feel..

All in all - Game is in maintenence mode.. so none of these opinions matter. Buy a mech pack. preorder MW5. Wait an hour in Group Que or get stomped in FP - that's what it's all about.

[Dimento Graven]

Vellron2005, on 15 November 2019 - 12:32 AM, said:

Old Terra Therma was offered boring, static peek-poke gameplay that favored only certain builds and should not be re-implemented.

I disagree. If you can't aim, and are playing 'shot gun' builds or builds focused on computer guided weaponry, the 'peek-poke' aspect is indeed problematic, but I count that as a problem with unskilled play, or play reliant on 'borrowed skill and the blessings of RNGesus'. Those same people whine about Alpine Peaks and favor maps like Polar LRMlands... I pity those potatoes.

For those who can aim, and have the capacity to fire their weapons AND move their 'mech simultaneously, the old map offered some really fun battles.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 15 November 2019 - 07:09 AM.

[Prototelis]

The problem with old Terra is that the lanes into the caldera are too narrow. Whoever got more **** into caldera first was going to win in caldera, no matter how much peaking the other team did. Doubly bad that the pathing around caldera suuuuuccccked. Way too long, and once you know where the other team is trying to "flank" from just a big long lane to shoot down EZ.

It was a really bad map. It is Boreal Vault levels of bad.

On new terra on skirmish if you can get your team into the caldera its a really neat place. Theres only three lanes, and they're only 2-3 mechs wide. It's a really neat spot to troll from.

Edited by Prototelis, 15 November 2019 - 07:24 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Prototelis, on 15 November 2019 - 07:23 AM, said:

The problem with old Terra is that the lanes into the caldera are too narrow.

I don't remember it that way, there were at least 2 lanes that you could fit 3 assaults through simultaneously, it's just that typical potato reaction, as soon as the enemy starts shooting at them, they start backing up, jamming up anyone behind them.

Bad play is bad play.

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Whoever got more **** into caldera first was going to win in caldera, no matter how much peaking the other team did.

Not totally 100% true as in "first into the caldera wins 100% of the time", but it was probably around 60 or 70 percent of the time, yes. Mainly demonstrating the need to move in coordinated and efficient fashion.

Something that most of the Tier 1 potatoes remaining to the game have never had to learn (hooray for an upwardly biased PSR sytem).

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Doubly bad that the pathing around caldera suuuuuccccked. Way too long, and once you know where the other team is trying to "flank" from just a big long lane to shoot down EZ.

Well in an assault, or slow heavy it sure felt 'way too long', but honestly it was pretty good on average, there were enough alternate paths that you could keep the enemy on their toes.

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It was a really bad map. It is Boreal Vault levels of bad.

Again I disagree. Boreal Vault, like Tera Therma (and many other maps) is a good map that is just generally played badly.

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On new terra on skirmish if you can get your team into the caldera its a really neat place. Theres only three lanes, and they're only 2-3 mechs wide. It's a really neat spot to troll from.

Yeah see, I find that 'less good'. Yes, it's more easily defensible, more suited to 'potato' level play, there's less opportunity to employ alternate tactics to defeat squatters in the caldera.

Let's just add it back. It would count as 'content'...

Oh, and increase the rotation rate of Alpine Peaks.

I'm very extremely tired of seeing every other map 20 times a night, and MAYBE be allowed to VOTE on Alpine peaks 3 times at best (usually it will show up for voting ZERO times, or maybe once).

Maps that favor positioning and the ability to aim aren't bad, it's just that most of the remaining population of players play badly.

[Prototelis]

Dimento Graven, on 15 November 2019 - 08:06 AM, said:

I don't remember it that way, there were at least 2 lanes that you could fit 3 assaults through simultaneously, it's just that typical potato reaction, as soon as the enemy starts shooting at them, they start backing up, jamming up anyone behind them.

Bad play is bad play.

Oh yeah, a 3 v 6 is totally good play. [Redacted]

Quote

Not totally 100% true as in "first into the caldera wins 100% of the time", but it was probably around 60 or 70 percent of the time, yes. Mainly demonstrating the need to move in coordinated and efficient fashion.

lawl, still most of the time. GG. Thanks for playing.

Quote

Well in an assault, or slow heavy it sure felt 'way too long', but honestly it was pretty good on average, there were enough alternate paths that you could keep the enemy on their toes.

Even in fast lights and mediums; which I've played more than you ever will, it was too long. And then you have P.much nowhere to go once you engage because you're in a long funnel.

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Again I disagree. Boreal Vault, like Tera Therma (and many other maps) is a good map that is just generally played badly.

Boreal vault is not a good map. Terra classic was not a good map.

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Yeah see, I find that 'less good'. Yes, it's more easily defensible, more suited to 'potato' level play,

lawl, ITT powerful positions are "potato level play"

Edited by draiocht, 19 November 2019 - 10:48 AM.
unconstructive, replies removed

[Dimento Graven]

Prototelis, on 15 November 2019 - 08:29 AM, said:

Oh yeah, a 3 v 6 is totally good play. [Redacted]

The fact that you missed the point, proves kind of proves it.

Bad play, is indeed, bad play.

[Redacted]

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lawl, still most of the time. GG. Thanks for playing.

Your statement seemed to imply 100%, 60-70 percent is certainly less than 100%, and the point you apparently missed is that better play by the team on the outside of the caldera can actually defeat "more ****" in the caldera.

Good play is more fun than bad play.

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Even in fast lights and mediums; which I've played more than you ever will, it was too long. And then you have P.much nowhere to go once you engage because you're in a long funnel.

Then you don't go in the funnel, or you don't go in the funnel with the most protection, or, you only go partially in (and with lights and mediums) climbing high on the walls of the tunnel, taking shots, moving down to where you're not seen, moving to a new location on the other side, further in, further back, taking shots, rinse and repeat.

These are the strats I've seen the best players in the game utilize on every map, including 'classic' Tera Therma to great effect.

Good play is good! Bad play is just bad play...

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Boreal vault is not a good map. Terra classic was not a good map.

Opinions vary, as do play styles.

The best players really don't seem to hate maps, so much as hate how everyone else goes 'full potato' on certain maps.

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lawl, ITT powerful positions are "potato level play"

Look, you're being abrasive for whatever reason... Perhaps being younger than a boomer you've yet to learn civility and manners but, I was polite enough to ignore what I would consider a 'potato level' contradiction in your previous post, but now I'm going to point it out and ask you to reconcile it.

You start your statement with the following:

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The problem with old Terra is that the lanes into the caldera are too narrow. Whoever got more **** into caldera first was going to win in caldera

Then you end that statement with the following:

Quote

On new terra on skirmish if you can get your team into the caldera its a really neat place. Theres only three lanes, and they're only 2-3 mechs wide. It's a really neat spot to troll from.

So, please reconcile how Old Terra the lanes are too narrow, but on NEW Terra the lanes are 'too narrow enough'?

Or is it you didn't like the fact that Old Terra had more lanes that it was possible to attack from, therefore it required more effort and skill to defend?

The way I'm reading your statement is that you like the caldera in New Terra because it's EASIER (in other words, closer to 'potato level' play).

If that's true, well, again I think you're proving my points.

But maybe I missed something, so here's your opportunity to explain more clearly what you meant.

Edited by draiocht, 19 November 2019 - 10:49 AM.
Quote Clean-up, reference

[Prototelis]

[Redacted]

Dimento Graven, on 15 November 2019 - 08:59 AM, said:

So, please reconcile how Old Terra the lanes are too narrow, but on NEW Terra the lanes are 'too narrow enough'?

Pointing out what makes caldera on new terra a powerful position to highlight what makes old terra bad; Old terra is essentially just a ******* caldera with narrow lanes.

The team that gets their first has a significant advantage. Thats why it is bad.

Edited by draiocht, 19 November 2019 - 10:56 AM.
unconstructive, replies removed

[FRAGTAST1C]

Any map is "new content". So, just go ahead and add it.

[Willard Phule]

Terra Therma Classic / VIP Escort for FP!

[General Solo]

I miss the ole Terra Terma, Here is a video of a fun game, Lanes weren't much of a problem either.
With a splash of Humble Brag to boot

[50 50]

@OzHomerOz
Enjoyed that vid Took me back to some of the battles I remember having on the map.
Thanks.

[K O Z A K]

OZHomerOZ, on 19 November 2019 - 07:10 AM, said:

I miss the ole Terra Terma, Here is a video of a fun game, Lanes weren't much of a problem either.
With a splash of Humble Brag to boot

the good old days when both teams were full on potato, there was some fun to be had

[Mystere]

Prototelis, on 15 November 2019 - 09:52 AM, said:

Pointing out what makes caldera on new terra a powerful position to highlight what makes old terra bad; Old terra is essentially just a ******* caldera with narrow lanes.

The team that gets their first has a significant advantage. Thats why it is bad.

Beating an enemy with a significant advantage is it's own reward. <shrugs>

[Prototelis]

Except its an easy to achieve position and its bad. It's a bad map.

[Mystere]

Prototelis, on 20 November 2019 - 10:53 PM, said:

Except its an easy to achieve position and its bad. It's a bad map.

Life is not symmetric (i.e. not fair). Multi-player video games should reflect that reality -- in equipment, maps, matchmaking, etc.

And, no, the matchmaker is not MWO biggest problem.

<shrugs and shrugs again>

Edited by Mystere, 21 November 2019 - 08:57 AM.