39 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

Dee Eight, on 02 December 2019 - 03:48 AM, said:

The developers probably do kind of need a vacation.

The leaders need to retire.

Edited by Appogee, 02 December 2019 - 04:26 AM.

[Unleashed3k]

Appogee, on 02 December 2019 - 04:26 AM, said:

The LEADER need to retire.

corrected that for you

[PhoenixFire55]

Unleashed3k, on 02 December 2019 - 04:12 AM, said:

Back then, there was nearly NOTHING, but yes, something is attacking the great murrican Steam, omgud, let's talk BS about it, so it may go away…

It's about time, that Steam dies...!

What is this new Shoplayout? An Epic-clone? LoL

Spewing nonsense when you have no counter-arguments is so mainstream you know.

For the record, I hate Steam and hardly ever use it. But that doesn't mean I will close my eyes towards the cancerous policies of EGS.

[Appogee]

PhoenixFire55, on 02 December 2019 - 04:03 AM, said:

Steam didn't steal games from other vendors and made them exclusive.

In the beginning, EVERYTHING on Steam was effectively an exclusive of sorts, because it was the only online games distribution platform. It very rapidly took market share from physical games stores because it was so convenient and the only notable online platform.

PhoenixFire55, on 02 December 2019 - 04:03 AM, said:

Nobody would argue against actual competition. When you sell the same product other guy does and win over customers by better services, lower prices and so on, thats competition. When you literally steal product from other vendors and make it exclusive to your shop, thats anything but competition.

Unfortunately, that's not the way markets play out, based on actual observation of the introduction of competition to monopolies.

Incumbent monopolies tend to hang onto most of their marketshare due to a combination of consumer inertia and the vast marketing war chests made possible by gouging their monopoly consumer base. Monopolies can easily match and then out-market competitors who introduce merely the same product at a lower price.

Further, it takes something significant - such as desirable exclusive titles - to get people to go to the trouble of signing up to a new platform and trialling it.

I remember how Microsoft 'stole' Halo - bought the developer, forced them to shelve the PC version, and released it as an Xbox-only title. It was outrageous at the time. I hated them for it. But it worked for them.

[Unleashed3k]

PhoenixFire55, on 02 December 2019 - 04:35 AM, said:

Spewing nonsense when you have no counter-arguments is so mainstream you know.

For the record, I hate Steam and hardly ever use it. But that doesn't mean I will close my eyes towards the cancerous policies of EGS.

Oh, so when Steam came out it fought their way up against other stores?

… YOU really shouldn't use the word nonsense, maybe only if quoting your own BS

[PhoenixFire55]

Appogee, on 02 December 2019 - 04:36 AM, said:

In the beginning, EVERYTHING on Steam was effectively an exclusive of sorts, because it was the only online games distribution platform. It very rapidly took market share from physical games stores because it was so convenient and the only notable online platform.

No. None of it was exclusive. You could still go to a strore next door, pay the same ish prices and get yourself a CD or a DVD with the exact same product. Steam indeed won over the audience because it was a more convenient way of buying the same product. Thats competition.

The only actual exclusive content that is worth mentioning on Steam was the HL-2 post main game episodes, i.e. content created by Valve and sold by Valve the way Valve wanted it. Basically a whooping total of one exclusive game.

Appogee, on 02 December 2019 - 04:36 AM, said:

Unfortunately, that's not the way markets play out, based on actual observation of the introduction of competition to monopolies.

Incumbent monopolies tend to hang onto most of their marketshare due to a combination of consumer inertia and the vast marketing war chests made possible by gouging their monopoly consumer base. Monopolies can easily match and then out-market competitors who introduce merely the same product at a lower price.

Further, it takes something significant - such as desirable exclusive titles - to get people to go to the trouble of signing up to a new platform and trialling it.

I remember how Microsoft 'stole' Halo - bought the developer, forced them to shelve the PC version, and released it as an Xbox-only title. It was outrageous at the time. I hated them for it. But it worked for them.

Thats all well as long as we consider Steam a monopoly, which it is not. I am for example able to play 95% of the games I play without any strings attached to Steam. And I wouldn't even say I inconvenience myself in any way doing so. And talking about Steam "war chests" when Epic literally sits on one of the biggest "war chests" in the history of gaming is quite a bit of hypocrisy.

And tbh regardless of our possible arguments on the subject of Steam "monopoly" and Steam vs Epic "competition", if Epic's policies are outright negative towards gamers, then any kind of marginal positivity we can gain from having two "monopolies" instead of one is irrelevant.

As a gamer since 90s I can honestly say that Steam and other online vendors affected the gaming experience very negatively for me. I have no doubts that if Epic is allowed to continue its ways of doing business it will worsen my gaming experience even further.

[PhoenixFire55]

Unleashed3k, on 02 December 2019 - 04:46 AM, said:

Oh, so when Steam came out it fought their way up against other stores?

I had a store selling game CDs and DVDs right next door. In fact I've had hundreds of stores like it across the city. Key word ... had. And yes, sadly Steam fought against those stores and won.

Unleashed3k, on 02 December 2019 - 04:46 AM, said:

… YOU really shouldn't use the word nonsense, maybe only if quoting your own BS

So, how about you listen to your own advice kiddo?

[justcallme A S H]

Dee Eight, on 02 December 2019 - 03:48 AM, said:

eliminating the gauss charge on light and regular gauss would be something like that which could be easily accomplished.

Yeah and lets totally break game balance.

Sounds like a really great idea

[Unleashed3k]

PhoenixFire55, on 02 December 2019 - 05:04 AM, said:

I had a store selling game CDs and DVDs right next door. In fact I've had hundreds of stores like it across the city. Key word ... had. And yes, sadly Steam fought against those stores and won.


So, how about you listen to your own advice kiddo?

Oh, so we now compare online stores with your kind of dead store?
That's called evolution, RL-nub, ofc they failed

Glad they lost

Edited by Unleashed3k, 02 December 2019 - 05:08 AM.

[Unleashed3k]

justcallme A S H, on 02 December 2019 - 05:06 AM, said:

Yeah and lets totally break game balance.

Sounds like a really great idea

Why not revert everything back to Clan Invasion 1.0?

[Anjian]

Appogee, on 02 December 2019 - 04:36 AM, said:

In the beginning, EVERYTHING on Steam was effectively an exclusive of sorts, because it was the only online games distribution platform. It very rapidly took market share from physical games stores because it was so convenient and the only notable online platform.


Unfortunately, that's not the way markets play out, based on actual observation of the introduction of competition to monopolies.

Incumbent monopolies tend to hang onto most of their marketshare due to a combination of consumer inertia and the vast marketing war chests made possible by gouging their monopoly consumer base. Monopolies can easily match and then out-market competitors who introduce merely the same product at a lower price.

Further, it takes something significant - such as desirable exclusive titles - to get people to go to the trouble of signing up to a new platform and trialling it.

I remember how Microsoft 'stole' Halo - bought the developer, forced them to shelve the PC version, and released it as an Xbox-only title. It was outrageous at the time. I hated them for it. But it worked for them.

Bungie wasn't making a PC version. They were making a Mac only version. Just like they did with Marathon. I remember playing those games on my Mac.

[SolidusPrime]

Anjian, on 02 December 2019 - 07:10 AM, said:

Bungie wasn't making a PC version. They were making a Mac only version. Just like they did with Marathon. I remember playing those games on my Mac.

The first one released on PC and Xbox at the same time. I think it's pretty safe to assume the rest would have continued to be made for PC alongside their console cousins without Microsoft's intervention.

[Daggett]

Dee Eight, on 01 December 2019 - 06:46 PM, said:

Now, there's obviously differences in the game mechanics as MW5 has no ghost heat, nor gauss charge time, and there's always the very slim chance that if enough players come over to here and start buying mech packs, and then demanding the elimination of the ghost heat and un-nerf the hover jets because they'll be folks they haven't taken money from yet who they only have to do that for to satisfy.

It's tinfoil hat time!

[Mister Blastman]

Heh, no amount of MW5 will fix the broken mess MWO became.

Small lasers nerfed into oblivion... I need say no more. The balance underlords ruined MWO with stupid mechanics like ghost heat, minimum ranges and other stupid crap, while never addressing the core issue of convergence. One that should have been addressed due to players shoehorning on as many kill tools as possible.

But whatever. I used to enjoy MWO back in the closed-beta days but Paul brought his wrecking ball to this and everything went downhill from there.

Fast forward to puglandia and the matchmaker and carryharder™ grated on us enough that we finally threw our arms up and left. Why carry harder when the game mechanics were constantly being worsened, not improved?

So MW5 players coming to MWO? Heh, when they arrive they'll likely be upset at what they find.


There are days where I consider playing MWO again but then the bad taste wells up from my stomach like a foul case of acid reflux mixed with ten day old rotten bile. I used to like this game, damnit.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 02 December 2019 - 08:06 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Unleashed3k, on 02 December 2019 - 05:07 AM, said:

Oh, so we now compare online stores with your kind of dead store?
That's called evolution, RL-nub, ofc they failed

Glad they lost

Gotta love the clueless millenials. Comes to a thread, zero clue, zero arguments, can't even follow the discussion yet considers himself a "winnah" nonetheless. Shouldn't you be in school or doing homework? That'll help you out eventually, promise.

[Appogee]

Anjian, on 02 December 2019 - 07:10 AM, said:

Bungie wasn't making a PC version. They were making a Mac only version. Just like they did with Marathon. I remember playing those games on my Mac.

Wrong. Bungie was a PC developer. Top Tier at the time.

MS bought them, made them shelves the almost-completed Halo, and had them port Halo to be Xbox only. It was three years before Bungie was permitted to be released on PC.

Here's a song I wrote about it at the time:

You see them there at EB
And down at Harvey Norman.
You spot them at the Gamesmen
Where long, sad lines are formin'.

They're queuing at the counter
With desperate persistence,
And asking the same question
Of badgered shop assistants

"I want to know: where's Halo?"
"Where's the PC version?"
"Don't want to buy an Xbox"
"I have console aversion."

The shop assistants shrug their shoulders
"I'm afraid we've not been told".
"Next please. An Xbox? Sure!" they say
As another console's sold.

The PC folks are anguished
"Bungie promised us," they state.
"It says so on their website"
"Even though it gives no date."

A wizzened old store manager
Has seen this scene before,
Takes pity on the PC folk
As he shows them to the door.

"Now Bill's in charge of Bungie"
"There's been some changes, see."
"Sure, Halo'll be on PC..."
"... in late 2003."

The gamers shout in anguish
"We want it while it's NEW!"
"Well," says the store manager,
"You know what you must do..."

Meanwhile, down in Redmond
At Microsoft HQ
Guards watch over doorways
To a high security room

And safe inside that strongroom
Where noone else can tell
Is Halo for the PC
Idle, as Xboxes sell.

[Appogee]

SolidusPrime, on 02 December 2019 - 07:24 AM, said:

The first one released on PC and Xbox at the same time. I think it's pretty safe to assume the rest would have continued to be made for PC alongside their console cousins without Microsoft's intervention.

Completely incorrect.

As I stated, it was coded for PC, then released ONLY on Xbox. MS deliberately kept the PC version of Halo off the market for years to 'make' people buy Xbox hardware.

Wikipedia confirms.

I was a journalist for a PC games mag at the time. I know exactly what happened.

[Nesutizale]

That is pretty much what I remember too. Funny thing is how time distorts things. I had a talk with a friend not so long ago who said "Halo 1 was on PC? I thought that game was allways Xbox exclusive?"

Oh well with the new collection comming up I might finaly be able to play the game where it originaly belonged...at least in my book
I am curiouse if the statement of a collegue is true that the Masterchief is Xboxs Commander Shepard.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Nesutizale, on 03 December 2019 - 02:16 AM, said:

Oh well with the new collection comming up I might finaly be able to play the game where it originaly belonged...at least in my book

It's Dec 3rd already. Time to install Halo Reach from Steam

[Nesutizale]

I think I will wait till the Master Collection is complete to play it in one go. I am also waiting for some reviews as its not on the top of my "Want to play" list.