85 replies to this topic

[Vellron2005]

Ok, so I finally managed to install and play the MW5:Mercs demo, and here's my in-depth review:

1) Installation:

So, I went over to MW5 site, got my key, and then to the Epic Games store. Had to install their launcher, and then install the game from there. The install is 48 GB, but went suprisingly fast.. I though I was in for the night, maybe try it by morning.. But I must have a good internet connection cose' it was over in less than half an hour - I'm impressed.

Game installed, launcher installed - I click the game icon on the desktop to run it - BUG - missing C++ 2015 redistributable. OK, so I google WTF that is, download it, try to install it.. tells me I have other C++ redistributables and can't install - So I had to first uninstall all the others 2008-2017. Then it let me install the 2015 version, and finally run the game (had to re-install all of them back to run nVidia Experience later)

I run the game on this:

i7 4770 Haswell
16GB RAM
Gigabyte RTX2060 Super OC 8GB DDR6

Have yet to test on Fiancee's laptop with 1050Ti

2) Game visuals:

So I run the game, and I gotta say it looks nice. My rig made it fly, and I was getting a smooth ride on absolute max settings. The Mecs look good, the weapons look great, and I was particularly happy with the visuals of burst fire ballistics and PPCs (something I rarely use in MWO) that made those weapons unusually fun for me. (didn't see the Gauss yet tho) I was also very happy with the mech launch sequence that was straight out of early MWO trailers, with the mech turning around in the dropship. That was just plain cool.

I do however, have a few beefs about the visuals:

2a) What happened to the HUD from the alpha footage? The lovely digital lines are non-existent, and the visual field looks kinda unfinished. It's just missing. (Can I turn it on somewhere?)
2b) Why oh why did you put the mini-map in the upper left corner instead of the lower center like it is in MWO? It's very un-organic, impractical for it to be there. Also, as others have stated, grid lines would be very helpful, yes. As it is now, it is very very hard to orientate using the mini-map.
2c) 3D person view - it looks nice, but you need to add another mode with the camera directly over and behind the mech (mech in the lower center of the screen), not just to the left side as it is now.
2d) The damage direction indicators, targeting reticle, target boxes and the paperdolls of both your mech and the target need to be more visible, less opaque, and crisper. (and included in the HUD that's "missing")

This is what it should look like:



This is what we got:



Where are all the gorgeous orange lines? (the color of witch we should be able to change)

3) Sound:

Simply put, it's great. I love it. I like how you can pick the sound models for your pilots. The PPCs and Burst Fire AC20 simply rock. The lasers sound good too. The stompy mech's footsteps make me wet. The "target aquired/destroyed" gets a little repetitive, but I guess I killed things too quickly. Also, nice music. Had to turn it down a little tho..

4) A.I.:

Now, this is a hotly discussed topic on these forums recently. My take is this: Yes, the A.I. isn't gonna raise up and become skynet any time soon. But considering the number of targets that swarmed me, I say that isn't a bad thing. I tried to solo the assassination mission in an Atlas, and was beat up a bit by the time I got to the two mechs. The Shadow hawk I killed,but the Awesome melted my face off with those PPCs.. Had to bring help. Then again, I survived up to wave 2 of assaults in the warzone mission.. so go figure.

I think it's ok, but I guess there are better pilots than me out there, who would like a nightmare mode - so give it to them.

5) Mechlab:

I like it for the most part. It seems ok, although not as intuitive as I would like. I don't understand why we have to go to "details" to install things like heat sinks and jump jets.. it should be available from the get-go. I find Battletech's mechlab superior in this regard.

Also, we should be able to spin the mech in the weapons & equipment section also, not just while we paint it. Please correct this.

I am however very pleased with the visuals of the mech changing as you place weapons.

The vanity party in me is missing decals however, they would make the mech stand out. It doesn't surprise me though, since PGI could not make them work properly in MWO (dancing decals bug), I guess they just cut them out completely.

6) Bugs:

So far, I experienced only one major bug in my 2 hours of play - I got a black screen and a complete computer hang-up, and I had to restart my computer via button. It was during the warzone mission. I don't really know if that was the game's fault, or my computer is still adjusting to the new graphics card..

After this happened, I returned to the game and it took a while for the mech models to load in the mech bay / mech selection screen. But they came back after a minute or so..

7) The fun:

OMG this game is fun! The mechs feel heavy, the physics is great. It's super-fun annihilating buildings and it looks realistic. It's pure joy crunching tanks and erasing air assets. And when you strap yourself into a 4xPPC+4MLAS Annihilator, you feel like you're bloody Thanos snapping light mechs out of existence with that 4 PPC alpha..

In conclusion:

This game has amazing potential to be the most fun Mechwarrior edition yet. It could still do with a few minor bells and whistle adjustments, but it's definitely a step in the right direction.

I can't help but see MANY of my own ideas posted here years ago in MWO suggestion forum section finally implemented, and it brings me joy.

I recommend people buy this game if they can afford to, support PGI on this, and just have fun leveling whole cities and enjoying the life of an Inner Sphere Mechwarrior mercenary.

Edited by Vellron2005, 29 November 2019 - 01:29 AM.

[Novakaine]

Well this old man is having a blast with it.
They crammed a lot o fun into just the demo.
Just running the mechs tickles me to no end.
I really can't complain about MW5.
And I'm sure the AI will get better in the full game.
Hell it's better than most pug matches in MWO

[Y E O N N E]

With regards to the AI, I will say this:

I am nowhere near as good as certain players in MWO, like Bows3r. Even still, if the AI in the game were roughly on par with my own MWO playing abilities it would be rage-inducingly difficult to play even for Bows3r without taking extraordinary and scale-ruining counter-balancing measures such as restricting all battles to single lance on single lance.

What people want is the illusion of competent game AI, not actually good AI. Give the enemy the ability to stop running in small circles, to actually fire all their weapons at once if they want, and to manage their heat properly, and we've already improved MW5 AI by 100%.

Edited by Y E O N N E, 29 November 2019 - 08:51 AM.

[K O Z A K]

I find it rather alarming how much fun a lot of people are having tearing down cities full of civilians. It's a game, but still. It practically seems like the main play feature of this game

When COD ran the no russian mission, it was in all the news for weeks about the horror of video games. When PGI makes you level entire cities.....just fun gameplay

[Mystere]

Vellron2005, on 29 November 2019 - 01:19 AM, said:

I run the game on this:

i7 4770 Haswell
16GB RAM
Gigabyte RTX2060 Super OC 8GB DDR6

Have yet to test on Fiancee's laptop with 1050Ti

Tsk! Tsk! That's so unfair!

[Novakaine]

Wanton digital destruction ya know ya want some.

[Koniving]

Download's 26, but after install it's 48 so it is very well compressed.

2A: Agreed that made me sad too.
2B: People complain about not being able to see enemies at their feet. Considering vehicles it makes some sense.
I just wish they put the damn thing IN the cockpit or had an option to use the internal monitors.

4: The assassination mission may not be the most "difficult" setting, but it is where the AI is the most competent. As I've noted in the past the fewer enemies there are the more aggressive they become. I don't think it's an issue of the AI just being bad but the AI being told to 'play fair', as they literally shoot less often and intentionally miss more often. So it is something they are told to do. That isn't what makes them bad. What makes them bad is they have no concept of friendly fire, teamwork, or even each other's existence (they see each other as obstacles that can be destroyed if they're in the way and will even run into each other. If the game had knockdowns the mechs may spend more time on their backs than moving).

5: For two days I was convinced ammo was added automatically until I tried weapons I didn't already have some ammo for and got into a match. Then it took me a bit to realize there was another page and it's like "....huh."

6: The only bug I've encountered is an AC/2 BF being stuck to always fire with no way to stop it. It's a bug that also exists in MWO but in MWO only other players are aware of your weapon being stuck firing. Here I could see it.

7: Definitely more fun than MWO, and not a bad starting point for something I really wanted. I knew from the get-go I'd have to do some work so it's actually not bad.

[Jyi]

Y E O N N E, on 29 November 2019 - 08:23 AM, said:

With regards to the AI, I will say this:

I am nowhere near as good as certain players in MWO, like Bows3r. Even still, if the AI in the game were roughly on par with my own MWO playing abilities it would be rage-inducingly difficult to play even for Bows3r without taking extraordinary and scale-ruining counter-balancing measures such as restricting all battles to single lance on single lance.

What people want is the illusion of competent game AI, not actually good AI. Give the enemy the ability to stop running in small circles, to actually fire all their weapons at once if they want, and to manage their heat properly, and we've already improved MW5 AI by 100%.

You're wrong. I think you and me - and everyone else for that matter - wants an actually good AI. The thing is, most people don't understand what a good AI is. We're not talking about a REAL AI here, we're talking about a game AI.

A modern game AI will never be on your level, because it's currently impossible to code an AI that makes such complicated - and also such confused - decisions. What can be made is only ever an illusion. This illusion can still be competent, though.

It is much better to tone down a smart AI than it is to try to boost up a dumb AI. There are variables like hit accuracy and damage - and in case of Mechwarrior games, weapon utilization - that can be tweaked to make an easier AI. But if the AI is dumb as bricks, stands still and gets headshotted or accidentally shoots and kills its friends, it will only make things more frustrating if you give it more damage, more accuracy or let it shoot more weapons.

Right now, to me it seems all they managed to do was first an AI that would activate in droves and overwhelm the player, then a toned down, intentionally dumbed version of that same AI that has artificial restrictions in place to keep it from killing the player. It seems to me, the AI has never been anything more than a rudimentary placeholder, but the developers don't seem to care and concentrate on procedural maps instead, and half the community is still happy just because "it's the first new sp Mechwarrior -game in almost two decades".

This pisses me off. If the AI is this dumb in the final version, almost everyone will sooner or later realize how unfun it makes the game.

[MischiefSC]

Y E O N N E, on 29 November 2019 - 08:23 AM, said:

With regards to the AI, I will say this:

I am nowhere near as good as certain players in MWO, like Bows3r. Even still, if the AI in the game were roughly on par with my own MWO playing abilities it would be rage-inducingly difficult to play even for Bows3r without taking extraordinary and scale-ruining counter-balancing measures such as restricting all battles to single lance on single lance.

What people want is the illusion of competent game AI, not actually good AI. Give the enemy the ability to stop running in small circles, to actually fire all their weapons at once if they want, and to manage their heat properly, and we've already improved MW5 AI by 100%.

So I haven't bothered to play around with it and I don't know what modding tools we'll have but I can confidently say about modding the AI -

Pathfinding currently isn't bad. Not amazing but not bad. It rarely gets stuck and when it does it realizes and tries to get loose. That's awesome and a huge hassle to do. Not running in circles is harder to fix because it's probably pathfinding trying to avoid collisions while keeping LOS to player. You want the AI moving, you want it not to get stuck, however it can't "see" and unlike a corridor shooter you can't just designate hotspots on the map for it to gravitate towards.

Having the AI focus fire and play range if it's got the loadout for it is going to be easier. If we can use modding tools to compile AI changes using Python scripts we're going to be able to do a lot - though it'll get performance heavy in a hurry.

Just the environment. Destructible stuff and how it reflects in pathfinding and LOS, pathfinding in general and elevation changes and jumpjets, how to get AI to predict loss of LOS to identify cover, mobility for AI in this sort of environment is really messy. Target selection and general prioritization plus some basic scripted stuff (getting AI with short range weapons taking damage from a player beyond 400m to try and close fast while tweaking direction and speed a bit to skew aim) is almost certainly doable and "cheap".

[Y E O N N E]

Jyi, on 29 November 2019 - 11:16 AM, said:

You're wrong. I think you and me - and everyone else for that matter - wants an actually good AI. The thing is, most people don't understand what a good AI is. We're not talking about a REAL AI here, we're talking about a game AI.

A modern game AI will never be on your level, because it's currently impossible to code an AI that makes such complicated - and also such confused - decisions. What can be made is only ever an illusion. This illusion can still be competent, though.

It is much better to tone down a smart AI than it is to try to boost up a dumb AI. There are variables like hit accuracy and damage - and in case of Mechwarrior games, weapon utilization - that can be tweaked to make an easier AI. But if the AI is dumb as bricks, stands still and gets headshotted or accidentally shoots and kills its friends, it will only make things more frustrating if you give it more damage, more accuracy or let it shoot more weapons.

Right now, to me it seems all they managed to do was first an AI that would activate in droves and overwhelm the player, then a toned down, intentionally dumbed version of that same AI that has artificial restrictions in place to keep it from killing the player. It seems to me, the AI has never been anything more than a rudimentary placeholder, but the developers don't seem to care and concentrate on procedural maps instead, and half the community is still happy just because "it's the first new sp Mechwarrior -game in almost two decades".

This pisses me off. If the AI is this dumb in the final version, almost everyone will sooner or later realize how unfun it makes the game.

Making the enemy move around more and reducing the head hitbox is all well and good, but that's not what I'm talking about.

You do not want to be fighting enemies competent enough to drill your CT from 900 meters. You don't want enemies capable of taking advantage of your lack of agility or arm weapons so it can shove SRMs up your arse. You don't want enemies capable of reading your build and knowing you run hot so they can push on you. The reason you don't want this is because you and your lance are 4 'Mechs and you will be facing successive waves of more than 4 enemies at a time. If the AI were GOOD, then you would be boned after the first engagement.

And this is without getting into aimbot territory.

[Tordin]

I had to swallow the deal with installing EGS and make accounts there, gonna do wipe it from my laptop and stay to Steam next year. But besides that.
I agree with alot with what OP said.

I love it.

BUT. Yeah. Regarding graphics. Well, the game scanned my pc to be using medium settings. That didnt work for me, there some odd texture pop ins/ not fully loading in the mech bay and in the field and unless I bumped up the setting, its just fugly.
The sharpening option helps, I have V sync on and I set textures to HIGH, resolution to max. My laptop handle it just fine above the recommended.

And I have like.. 32 Ram DDR
64 bit. ASUS laptop. Intel core i5 7th generation. 7300HQ, 2.50 Ghz
Nvidia Geforce GTX 1050
Tons of gigs.

Waaay above rec specs for this game.
So I think the game could do with some optimization.

My biggest gripes is the HUD, no ammo switching and erratic, undecicive A.I, not dumb per see. Also lack of vehicle, environmental sounds like thinderous rolling from partisans over the hill etc.

- The HUD as mention, IMO looked much better, uniform colored and kinda angled, fitting in general every cockpit on each mech. The simple, white, cookie cutter HUD we have now could stay as that in THIRD person, but automatically switch back to past iterations when in First person.
I guess modders will have a field day with churning out HUDS in all variants, hopefully.
Also there should be some base option.

1: HUD as in what we have now, kinda floating there, since we looking through the helmet of the pilot

2: All info on every screen, monitor and such in the mechs cockpit. Like ammo left, heat, paper dolls on screen and such.

3: Combination of those.

All in all OPTION, we should be able to change HUD thingies in the options.

One awesome thing I noticed once I took alot of damage, sparks and fire inside the cockpit. I havent gotten headshotted yet but I hope we get permanent cracks in the CP glass. Such things brings IMMERSION alongside the much better feeling of weight we have gotten. Dont want cracks and damage visuals on the HUD and in the cockpit? Well there should be an option to turn that off in the settings, or just use third person.

Ammo switching. How to do that? Well.

IMO. It could be easy fix. I do think as others that PGI wanted to separate slug and scatter LBX round for artifical feeling of more choices. But heres the thing.
Just rename it LBX 10 AC. For then to have two different ammo types indicating SLUG and SCATTERSHOT. When having the weapon with both types of ammo, you should be able to swithc ammo types with a press of a key. TAB could do.
And for the indication?
Well a : 20 Sg/ 10 Ss for example shown on the ammo line in the weapons part of the HUD could do. And highlight the one ammo type in a distinct color that you use.

Same goes for stream and cluster missile launching. Sure there are more but thats top of my head.

Last. The A.I need fine tuning, be more agressive if possible, get more decicion time instead of going all schitzo, shootin a little here, a little there, running and hide, taking pot shots, then oddly charging, or just staring at you are for example. The enemy A.I need more courage and stick to one tactic. There have been moments I was wondering if that one Assassin were piloted by a person. The pilot kept circle strafing my Marauder, and it kinda worked, the thing was more agile than my heavy. And such an occurence were actually repeating.

Have seen more than once that Assassin pilots are dead set on trying to backstab and or circling you if needed. Wonder if PGI havent coded different mechs to use slightly different tactics depending on which mech it is...

Y E O N N E, on 29 November 2019 - 11:38 AM, said:

Making the enemy move around more and reducing the head hitbox is all well and good, but that's not what I'm talking about.

You do not want to be fighting enemies competent enough to drill your CT from 900 meters.

Yes, yes! A small decrease in head hitbox could do. Also no frigging way I want the enemies to do the old MW4 M shenanigans with pin point accuracy, CT murdering and OCCASIONALY scrape the other components. I dont want "unrealistic" pinpoint nonsense, hit scan ( besides some weapons I guess ).

I dont want MWO barf in MW5, and it irks me to no end that some want it to be like that, and complain that the customization isnt all out of whack. MWO is a pure PVP for mechs sake! mw5 IS pve/ pvecoop

MW5 is a game that can be tense, but you can seep in the atmosphere, the struggle, the truer to lore/ canon limitation of the mech bay and it better stay that way, also it dosent mean its harsh and boring.
No, its about optimising to the best you can and that bracket build are actually VIABLE.

All my rambling for now.
Enough text, back to testing!

Edited by Tordin, 29 November 2019 - 11:52 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Tordin, on 29 November 2019 - 11:43 AM, said:

And I have like.. 32 Ram DDR
64 bit. ASUS laptop. Intel core i5 7th generation. 7300HQ, 2.50 Ghz
Nvidia Geforce GTX 1050
Tons of gigs.

Waaay above rec specs for this game.
So I think the game could do with some optimization.

That processor and GPU are mid-tier for this game and hence it set the graphics for Medium. The game is nicely optimized. One issue is the Flamer. The frame-rate tanks when flamers are used.

[Y E O N N E]

FRAGTAST1C, on 29 November 2019 - 07:09 PM, said:

That processor and GPU are mid-tier for this game and hence it set the graphics for Medium. The game is nicely optimized. One issue is the Flamer. The frame-rate tanks when flamers are used.

And that's a bug they are aware of. Should be fixed in release.

[MischiefSC]

So enemies are going to be stock 3025 mechs. This means players running bracket builds won't be at a huge disadvantage and it also means players running synergy decks will be extremely powerful.

That's okay. It's SP.

I'm already thinking that a mod where all the mechs are optimized, full armor with solid loadouts and enemies regular to elite with some AI tweaks to be what the more competitive minded players are looking for.

[C E Dwyer]

Novakaine, on 29 November 2019 - 08:15 AM, said:

Well this old man is having a blast with it.
They crammed a lot o fun into just the demo.
Just running the mechs tickles me to no end.
I really can't complain about MW5.
And I'm sure the AI will get better in the full game.
Hell it's better than most pug matches in MWO

Lol yup, have to agree with this, for all the AI complaints, it play more intelligently than most pugs

[K O Z A K]

C E Dwyer, on 30 November 2019 - 12:59 PM, said:

Lol yup, have to agree with this, for all the AI complaints, it play more intelligently than most pugs

if this was true all of you guys would be losing missions more often than succeeding in MW5

[Prototelis]

^ wElL If pUgS JuSt lIsTeNeD To mY CaLlS

[Tordin]

FRAGTAST1C, on 29 November 2019 - 07:09 PM, said:

That processor and GPU are mid-tier for this game and hence it set the graphics for Medium. The game is nicely optimized. One issue is the Flamer. The frame-rate tanks when flamers are used.

Really? But the MW5 specs are below mine. Dosent make much sense.

Well between medium and high in my experience, but Im not computer wizard. All I know is that my graphic card are the third highest on most used/ best whatever on the steam charts, oh well.

It does explain why melted metal of the mechs falls off as small squares though *shivers* and I have it on HIGH on effects, but to no avail

But yeah the flamers are fps tanking. But *deep breath* I do NOT hope PGI turn them to frigging blowtorches ala MWO!!! Because they look so good.

Seems PVP folks are effing at it, at least on reddit and demands PGI to make it more like MWO. Get outta here I say. Its nice to see bracket builds be actually viable, follow lore/ canon and not HYPER optimised for competive sugar infused angry crybabies crying non META, non fun, bad game!

Gonna coolit, Im sure some modder wizards will get a pvp mode in somehow. Im just glad I can murder some A.I foes alongside comrades without insult toting scum screaming bloody mary over the coms, like MWO. Gosh forbid you bring lurms or non meta builds in MWO, you know, even if you can use them.

Edited by Tordin, 30 November 2019 - 02:28 PM.

[Ilfi]

How do you feel about LRMs in MW5?

[Tordin]

Pretty useful for taking out lighter tanks, turrets and hitting anything that hide behind terrain elevation. Even a single LRM 5 can be jsut enough to do just enough damage to taking out or at least damaging pests while your bigger weapons take a break.

Not useful on light mechs of any laucnher size, which is how it should be.

Streak srm and srm have that role filled for duck... erm light mech hunting.
Love that we can have stream versions of them too ( like with Clan LRMS in mwo ). It seeems they are more accurate but a bit more suspectible to AMS? Also take tiny bit longer to do full damage, since.. well each missile are behind the other. The cluster - all - at - once version are kinda like the opposite.

Edited by Tordin, 30 November 2019 - 02:39 PM.