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#1 Flux Reversal

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 01:35 AM

Yes I have searched and read. Sooooo tired of these walls of text by nerds that probably spend more time reading their own work than any one else does.

So I see that I have been refunded an *** load of stuff in my inventory. I assume it has something to do with this new skill tree I see.

I got MC, CBills, GXP, SP, HXP ....did I miss any?

Oh, then there is the "convert xp" and "add sp" functions that look like they do the same thing but do they?

Like wtf developers? And I seen some responses by white knights defending the developers with nothing more than "making games is hard, whaaa" Talk about a low effort lazy system. Instead of doing the work on the back end they put the work onto the user... typical lazy programmer BS.

Now that I am done cryn can someone please explain all this to me? No walls of texts, no links to 4 hour long videos. There has got to be a simple explanation somewhere but i haven't found it yet.

Please explain: "MC, CBills, GXP, SP, HXP ....did I miss any?" & "convert xp" and "add sp" functions. Please also explain why one is more valuable than the other. Dont want to blow my load not knowing wtf is going on then kick myself for making a stupid uninformed decision in an overly complicated system that can probably be very simple if a developer would just take the time.

Its overly complicated mechanics such as this that turn potentially new customers away from a product.. any product.

#2 T e c h 4 9

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 05:48 AM

MC = mech credits - used to buy premium items in-game, get via events or real money

C-bills - in-game currency, used to buy most things in game that are not premium content, as well as used to purchase SP

SP = skill points, the new "currency" used to unlock skill tree nodes to level-up/skill your mechs

GSP = general skill point - same as SP, but not restricted to a specific mech chassis - usually you get these during events (like the current event) or by spending real money to buy (they have 100 GSP bundles for 1250 MC in the in-game store, or $10 gets you a 200 GSP bundle on the web store). Similar to GXP basically

HSP = historic skill points = credit for previous skill levels in the 3-tier old system. Use these first to skill your mechs

GXP = general XP - XP that can be used to buy SP for any mech chassis. you earn a small amount of GXP for the XP you earn in matches (I think its 10% of XP earned)

HXP = historic experience points - similar to HSP, but XP credit from the previous system. Use these second to skill your mechs

XP = experience points - earned during matches for performance, used to purchase SP. It takes 800 XP (or GXP) + 45,000 c-bills to purchase 1 SP, which then can unlock 1 node in the skill tree

The "convert XP" function allows you to convert from one "currency" to XP, which is used to purchase SP to unlock nodes. Depending on what you are converting, there may or may not be a cost associated with it. Honestly I haven't converted anything in quite some time, so I'd have to refresh myself to give accurate info on it, but I'm pretty sure the only time it costs anything is if you are converting XP to GXP. Converting from HXP to XP is free IIRC.

"Add SP" is how you purchase SP, and you have multiple options to do that - using GSP you already have, XP for that mech chassis, GXP, etc. It should be pretty self explanatory in that menu. Just remember - XP/GXP is 800 per SP, PLUS the 45,000 c-bills per SP as well. So, 10 SP would cost 8,000 XP/GXP and 450,000 c-bills. Do the math and you'll see that it costs 72,800 XP/GXP and just over 4 million c-bills to get 91 SP to fully skill out a mech (assuming you get exactly the nodes you want - sometimes you change your mind after experimenting). The actual cost to get all 200+ nodes for each mech (not that you have to do that mind you) is almost 3x that amount of XP/GXP and c-bills.

Typically, the most advantageous nodes fall into the Firepower, Survivability, Operations, and Sensors groups (and the Auxiliary group if you like consumables or capping bonuses). It depends on the mech and build as to which exact nodes are best, so I'd recommend looking here if you really want to learn more to maximize your value. Not spending the time to read and understand how this system works and what nodes are "best" for a given application will almost certainly result in spending your newfound resources (HSP, HXP, XP, c-bills, etc) unwisely.

Also, I'd recommend using the Grimmechs site for additional build info to see what build are "good".

I hope this helps!

Edited by T e c h 4 9, 31 December 2019 - 05:52 AM.


#3 Flux Reversal

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 06:51 AM

Damn.... I guess that's about as simple of an explanation as I am going to get. Its still overly complicated.

Thanks for the reply though. I'll study it later after I play some games that do not require a technical certification to understand the conversion rates of all the xp's and currencies. And IRL I am a currency speculator and its no where as complicated as this.

#4 Horseman

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 09:07 AM

View PostFlux Reversal, on 31 December 2019 - 01:35 AM, said:

So I see that I have been refunded an *** load of stuff in my inventory. I assume it has something to do with this new skill tree I see.
Yes.
In a nutshell:
  • All GXP spent on module unlocks has been refunded
  • Your purchased mech skills were turned into Historic Skill Points (spendable on any copy of the matching chassis), multiplied by the number of copies of that chassis you had in your inventory
  • Your accumulated mech XP was turned into Historic XP (spendable on any copy of the matching chassis), multiplied by the number of copies of that chassis you had in your inventory.
  • All consumables you had in your inventory have been refunded as C-Bills or MC
Basic thing to note: DON'T transfer Historic XP onto mechs, you can purchase SP with it directly - transferring just gives up flexibility for no good reason.

XP is now tracked per individual mech. Spare XP can be converted into GXP. as before

Skill Points (SP) are purchased for 45 000 C-Bills and 800 XP, HXP or GXP per each Skill Point. In that, the XP "currencies" are interchangeable.
Historic Skill Points (HSP) are spendable on any copy of the corresponding chassis you have in your inventory.
Historic XP can be spent to purchase SP on any copy of the corresponding chassis you have in your inventory.
General Skill Points (GSP) are spendable on any chassis. They're pretty rare, but you can get some from loot bag events or buy a GSP bundle in the cash shop.
General XP can be spent to purchase SP on any chassis.

Quote

Oh, then there is the "convert xp" and "add sp" functions that look like they do the same thing but do they?
Convert XP is used to turn HXP XP into chassis XP. Do not use it.
Add SP is used to convert C-Bills and XP/HXP/GXP into Skill Points.


Quote

Like wtf developers? And I seen some responses by white knights defending the developers with nothing more than "making games is hard, whaaa" Talk about a low effort lazy system. Instead of doing the work on the back end they put the work onto the user... typical lazy programmer BS.
Agreed, the system was overcomplicated. Programmer design at its' finest.

Quote

Please explain: "MC, CBills, GXP, SP, HXP ....did I miss any?" & "convert xp" and "add sp" functions. Please also explain why one is more valuable than the other. Dont want to blow my load not knowing wtf is going on then kick myself for making a stupid uninformed decision in an overly complicated system that can probably be very simple if a developer would just take the time.
Something else to note: you can only have 91 skill nodes activated on a chassis at the same time. They do not cost anything to deactivate, but unlocking a never before used skill node will cost you another SP.

The patch notes might help a bit ( https://mwomercs.com...14115-16may2017 ), but feel free to ask any more questions you've got.

#5 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 03:00 PM

And on HSP (Historic Skill Points). DO NOT put more than 91 HSP to a specific mech. The max allowable active Skill points per mech is 91. PGI will not return unused SP back to the general bank.

Why would a mech show 182 or 273 HSP? Lets say you had 3 Shadow Hawk 2H (plain), (C) Champion w. 30% XP bonus, and (P) Phoenix package w/30% C-Bill and 10% LP (loyalty points for FP), fully skilled prior to the Skill Tree update/switch. For the 2H it will then show it having 273 HSP.

Again, the mech can only have 91 active SP. No need to spec the mech out completely at first. I know for several of my mechs, I have changed up at least 10-20 SP (need to purchase new SP to do so) which either worked better with the default quirks and/or enhanced how I equipped/piloted the mechs.

#6 Appogee

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 03:54 PM

View PostFlux Reversal, on 31 December 2019 - 01:35 AM, said:

Sooooo tired of these walls of text by nerds that probably spend more time reading their own work than any one else does.


Said the guy who showed up and expected someone else to write a wall of explanatory text purely for his benefit.

#7 Flux Reversal

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 08:51 PM

View PostAppogee, on 31 December 2019 - 03:54 PM, said:


Said the guy who showed up and expected someone else to write a wall of explanatory text purely for his benefit.


Go away troll. As I stated already "guess that's about as simple of an explanation as I am going to get." Meaning that its not simple and it should not be this complicated. The fact that it takes a wall of text to explain something that could be simple is the point of it all.

Your attempted troll is as low effort as the programming behind the mechanic.

#8 Appogee

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Posted 01 January 2020 - 02:39 AM

View PostFlux Reversal, on 31 December 2019 - 08:51 PM, said:

Go away troll.

Said the guy who came asking for help ... while insulting the very people who he wanted the help from ...

Edited by Appogee, 01 January 2020 - 06:13 AM.


#9 Vxheous

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Posted 01 January 2020 - 08:57 AM

the tl;dr version is:

New system fully skilled mechs = 91 skill pts

All previous modules refunded become GSP = use to level any new mech or mechs missing pts
All previous mechs that were mastered got refunded HSP (Historical Skill points) = Use them first for all mechs currently owned
Other than that, use any combination of GXP or XP, add Cbills to buy skill points for mechs.

Thats it, that's the whole system.

As an example, I owned a ton of mech modules in the old system, so I got refunded like 21K GSP + all the other stuff. Pretty much all my previous owned mechs were fully mastered in the old system, so they each got refunded 91 points. That meant in this "new" system, I was able to use historical SP to put 91 pts into each of my mechs, without touching any GSP. the 21K GSP allowed me to freely master an additional 230 mechs without ever playing a single game on said mech.

Edited by Vxheous, 01 January 2020 - 09:00 AM.


#10 Hammer Hand

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Posted 01 January 2020 - 12:40 PM

Not on the subject because it has been covered.

Welcome back! Good Hunting!

#11 Void Angel

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 03:18 AM

The catch 22 here is that if he's not smart enough to understand the skill tree, he's going to require the "wall of text" from the "nerds" he's "asking" for help.

#12 Horseman

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 03:37 AM

View PostFlux Reversal, on 31 December 2019 - 08:51 PM, said:

Your attempted troll is as low effort as the programming behind the mechanic.
Eh, the issue isn't with programming... it's with the design itself.

Using the tree is fairly straightforward as most mechs will be using a single shared skill build for a given type of loadout with minimal - if any - variance.
To give you some examples:

Edited by Horseman, 02 January 2020 - 03:44 AM.


#13 BigBANGtheory

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 05:35 AM

So if I understand correctly.... all my historic Mechs are now back in their default skill/module state but I have the means to skill them back up OR (if I so choose) I could buy some new mechs and skill those up instead so long as I buy the new SP with Historical XP. Otherwise it is as before I.e. as you play you earn Cbills and XP only now you buy the SP i.e. it has a Cbill cost thus making Cbills a more constraining resource than before....

I think, oh damn I’m just going to have to experiment

#14 Vxheous

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 06:05 AM

View PostBigBANGtheory, on 02 January 2020 - 05:35 AM, said:

So if I understand correctly.... all my historic Mechs are now back in their default skill/module state but I have the means to skill them back up OR (if I so choose) I could buy some new mechs and skill those up instead so long as I buy the new SP with Historical XP. Otherwise it is as before I.e. as you play you earn Cbills and XP only now you buy the SP i.e. it has a Cbill cost thus making Cbills a more constraining resource than before....

I think, oh damn I’m just going to have to experiment


No, historical XP only applies to the mech you originally earned it on, but all the GXP you used in the past to unlock modules got refunded so you can use that + additional cbills to skill new mechs

#15 Horseman

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 07:31 AM

View PostBigBANGtheory, on 02 January 2020 - 05:35 AM, said:

So if I understand correctly.... all my historic Mechs are now back in their default skill/module state but I have the means to skill them back up OR (if I so choose) I could buy some new mechs and skill those up instead so long as I buy the new SP with Historical XP.
Not exactly. HXP is tied to the mech variant, eg if you had 200K XP on a Warhammer 6R, that was converted to 200K HXP for Warhammer 6R and can be used both on the ones you own and any copy of that chassis that you purchase in the future.
Same for HSP.

Quote

Otherwise it is as before I.e. as you play you earn Cbills and XP only now you buy the SP i.e. it has a Cbill cost thus making Cbills a more constraining resource than before....
The rewards have been bumped up by 15% or so a while back. As long as you farm enough damage, the bills will flow.

#16 BigBANGtheory

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 02:03 PM

Ah ok I see so I need to use up Historical XP on the mech chassis they were earned on before buying any SP with normal XP, but I cant transfer that HXP to other mechs.

#17 Vxheous

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 05:43 PM

View PostBigBANGtheory, on 02 January 2020 - 02:03 PM, said:

Ah ok I see so I need to use up Historical XP on the mech chassis they were earned on before buying any SP with normal XP, but I cant transfer that HXP to other mechs.


Yes, however, any modules you owned got exchanged for GSP (global SP) which can be used for any mech, old or new.

#18 Horseman

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 04:10 AM

View PostBigBANGtheory, on 02 January 2020 - 02:03 PM, said:

Ah ok I see so I need to use up Historical XP on the mech chassis they were earned on before buying any SP with normal XP, but I cant transfer that HXP to other mechs.

Spend your HSP before you start digging into the HXP. HSP don't cost you C-Bills.

#19 BigBANGtheory

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 10:46 AM

Ok got it.... thanks guys Posted Image

#20 BigBANGtheory

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 03:44 AM

So I converted all my HSP for a mech, then HXP & XP (with some Cbills) which gave me 31SP to spend.

I also have it appears 4800 GSP banked which seems the most valuable as it can be used on any mech as I understand...

So my choice now is to play and earn more XP to convert into SP or spend GSP?

I can spend over 91 SP on a mech but only ever have 91 nodes active with no refund/return on ill spent SP...





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