54 replies to this topic

[Nesutizale]

Unusual for PGI but its monday and the editor has dropped
https://mw5mercs.com...-editor-release


Old

Quote

From Twitter

Quick update on the release of the MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries Editor. These past couple of weeks we have been attempting to contact a plugin author to get permissions for release but we have had no luck contacting them. Therefore we have had to undertake the work in removing it.
https://twitter.com/...6740428800?s=20

Edited by Nesutizale, 13 January 2020 - 12:11 PM.

[cszolee79]

Yep. That's how it is.
Unexpectedly expected delays.
What next?

[Adrian Pride]

What make me laugh a bit is the fact that he say the "using/upload of a mod" will be come later.
Wen Epic has something similar then Steam for Mod's.

So can i be so arogant to say i know more about the Game as his President as i allready mod the game since weeks ?
It is so easy to insert a new Mod to the Game, don't know why he not tell the People.

If PGI release the full Gamesource with Unreal Editor, im not sure if most People have Fun creating new Mod's.
But if any one do it, then he just need to set up all new/edited Files in a single PAK File...what Users need to copy to the Game PAK Folder.
That's it...no need to wait for Epic or what ever.

Im willed to help on that, wen the Editor is out and People need help on installing a new Mod.

[Hawk_eye]

Adrian Pride, on 09 January 2020 - 08:29 AM, said:

So can i be so arogant to say i know more about the Game as his President as i allready mod the game since weeks ?
It is so easy to insert a new Mod to the Game, don't know why he not tell the People.

In my opinion, you have earned that right

[Adrian Pride]

Hawk_eye, on 09 January 2020 - 09:50 AM, said:

In my opinion, you have earned that right

Thank you, but i was just kidding

[Nesutizale]

Russ often seams not to know the current state of the game. How often do you hear him say "Oh good question, have to ask the guys" or "not sure, should be in".

As for the mod support. I think he realy means the Epic store function that is similar ot steams workshop and when I follow chat on Discord or some people here...putting a file into a folder seams to be to much to ask for.
I read several times that people said "I know modding is possible without steams workshop but I don't want to do it, to much work".

[Odanan]

Adrian Pride, on 09 January 2020 - 08:29 AM, said:

What make me laugh a bit is the fact that he say the "using/upload of a mod" will be come later.
Wen Epic has something similar then Steam for Mod's.

So can i be so arogant to say i know more about the Game as his President as i allready mod the game since weeks ?
It is so easy to insert a new Mod to the Game, don't know why he not tell the People.

If PGI release the full Gamesource with Unreal Editor, im not sure if most People have Fun creating new Mod's.
But if any one do it, then he just need to set up all new/edited Files in a single PAK File...what Users need to copy to the Game PAK Folder.
That's it...no need to wait for Epic or what ever.

Im willed to help on that, wen the Editor is out and People need help on installing a new Mod.

Can you make some quick instructions for opening/editing the games files?

[B0oN]

Try this, might help, dunno .

Edited by B0oN, 09 January 2020 - 01:57 PM.

[Adrian Pride]

B0oN, on 09 January 2020 - 01:56 PM, said:

Try this, might help, dunno .

Woah that is really complicated
I do not use the Unreal Tool or something like in this Video, do not know if that will work.
Maybe at the Weekend i can make a Step by Step Tutorial, it is just easy.

But is there not a Modding Discord Group with around 3.000 People ?
Thought all Info about modding is there

[Adrian Pride]

Nesutizale, on 09 January 2020 - 01:15 PM, said:

I read several times that people said "I know modding is possible without steams workshop but I don't want to do it, to much work".

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL !!!
WTF, would say those People have no idea how to mod this game and just talking nonsens.
Glad im not at this Discord group, im afraid of reading such things or get 100 of messages a day i need to mute, because im at work
I do not want to sound conceited, im just a normal modder and im happy i found some ways to mod the game.
So no Offence...

edit: man...my poor english

Edited by Adrian Pride, 09 January 2020 - 02:13 PM.

[Nesutizale]

Adrian Pride, on 09 January 2020 - 02:07 PM, said:

But is there not a Modding Discord Group with around 3.000 People ?
Thought all Info about modding is there

No there are about 1200 to 3000 people in discord for MW5 last time I checked, what was some time ago. Might be less now that the game release and some people haveing finished the game. The channel is seperated into different sub channels, one of them is the Modding channel as well as a wish-channel for what mods people would like to see.

Most of the comments of "I don't wanna use ma bruain" are on the wishlist and general channel. Last time I checked the modding channel it was pretty...quite. Guess people are waiting for the tools, like myself. I have no clue on programming but I might be able to do some graphics and stuff. So I need some tools to work with, if I want to do anything.

[Adrian Pride]

Nesutizale, on 09 January 2020 - 03:07 PM, said:

No there are about 1200 to 3000 people in discord for MW5 last time I checked, what was some time ago. Might be less now that the game release and some people haveing finished the game. The channel is seperated into different sub channels, one of them is the Modding channel as well as a wish-channel for what mods people would like to see.

Most of the comments of "I don't wanna use ma bruain" are on the wishlist and general channel. Last time I checked the modding channel it was pretty...quite.

Oh that is sad, thought really a lot People are still creating Mod's
If actual let's say im the only one...i really hope if someday the Editor is there the People will really start to mod and not only add some wishlist's in hope some other create it.
And maybe...be more polite to the other modders, so they do not stop sharing any mod

Nesutizale, on 09 January 2020 - 03:07 PM, said:

Guess people are waiting for the tools, like myself. I have no clue on programming but I might be able to do some graphics and stuff. So I need some tools to work with, if I want to do anything.

Mensch, dann frag mich doch einfach mal. Hab doch keine Glaskugel an der Hand um zu wissen das du auch loslegen willst

[N0MAD]

i know changing a few character gifs and sound files is technically modding, but in reality its the most basic of mods.
Im thinking most people are waiting for more ummm useful gameplay affecting mods like say a mission editor or AI enhancement mods.
Personally speaking until we have a mission editor any other mod that is eye candy is of very little use to alot of people.
This is a personal opinion.

[Adrian Pride]

N0MAD, on 09 January 2020 - 07:05 PM, said:

i know changing a few character gifs and sound files is technically modding, but in reality its the most basic of mods.
Im thinking most people are waiting for more ummm useful gameplay affecting mods like say a mission editor or AI enhancement mods.
Personally speaking until we have a mission editor any other mod that is eye candy is of very little use to alot of people.
This is a personal opinion.

If that is so easy as you described you can try it, there is a case that i reversed the gamefiles and programmed some Tools. There is no "copy/paste" some new Images/Sound to the Game you can do.
Using Unreal Editor at this point will help you nothing.

A Mod is simply a modification, what you called "basic" worked a long time ago...todays Game Engines are more Powerfull and you can not simply swap Stuff. Not to mention that there is no usage of GIF Files

And you do not get it, you will NEVER get a Mod Tool from PGI.
You simply get the Game inside the Unreal Editor 4 and need to learn working with UE4.
Prepare to download some GB...prepare to learn how to use UE4.

I do not get the Point, because you not "see" i edit/rewrite some Scripts that is not modding ?
I did allready and rewrote Scripts in my 100 Character Mod, but why should i tell you...im better back to the basic stuff

There is no reason why not another Person can mod the AI Scripts, create a new HUD or what he want at this moment. There is no need to wait for PGI Editor then maybe to create a new Story...but im tired telling this.

But thank you for clarify what i say:
People are waiting for some "ready made Tools" to start the hardwork "click here, click there" modding.
Forget that someone has to create these tools by reversing the Gamefiles, like i did and im sure others in the background doing too.

Sometimes, in a World far far away, there were 3 magic letters: DIY - Do it yourself
Today this changed to: DIFM - Do it for me...

EDIT:
To fix the AI you should talk to PGI and not expect it from a modder.
What is going on with you People ?
Would be not so hard to write a script like this simple example if you are a Developer at PGI:

function prepare2shoot (target)
if friendly_is_in_line_of_fire then do_not_shoot
else bring_hell_over_enemy

Edited by Adrian Pride, 10 January 2020 - 01:36 AM.

[Nesutizale]

Adrian Pride, on 09 January 2020 - 03:23 PM, said:

Oh that is sad, thought really a lot People are still creating Mod's

As far as I know they haven't even started.

Quote

If actual let's say im the only one...i really hope if someday the Editor is there the People will really start to mod and not only add some wishlist's in hope some other create it.
And maybe...be more polite to the other modders, so they do not stop sharing any mod

I think that heavly depends on what PGI drops with the editor. What can be editied. How easy is it to work with and so on.
If its realy just the unreal editor with the MW5 assets, then people will need to learn a lot. I looked at the UE Editor briefly and its quite a beast. Sure the first steps are easy but the more you go into the details the more complex it gets and the more reading up and going through tutorials you need to do.

Also the question is what kind of stuff can be created with it? Is it just a map editor? Can we create our own campaigns? Can we add new assets or even change the AI behavior?

Questions, questions, questions and I fear that it will be some time until we get definite answeres.

Quote

Mensch, dann frag mich doch einfach mal. Hab doch keine Glaskugel an der Hand um zu wissen das du auch loslegen willst

Ich hab ne grobe Idee für ein "Demo" könnte man sagen aber das ding is A) momentan ehr ne Stichpunkte Liste und B ) recht komplex weil ich ne eigene Map bräuchte, also nicht eine generierte und auch sehen muss was es an Assets gibt und ob ich da vielleicht noch was selbst erstellen muss und wie man die dann einbindet.
Schätze das ich dann auch noch mich tiefer mit UE Editor beschäftigen muss.
Kurz ne etwas überambitinierte Idee die ich in meiner Ideenschublade hab wärend ich mich um anderes kümmere.

Adrian Pride, on 09 January 2020 - 11:42 PM, said:

function prepare2shoot (target)
if friendly_is_in_line_of_fire then do_not_shoot
else bring_hell_over_enemy

If it would just be so easy

Edited by Nesutizale, 10 January 2020 - 02:46 AM.

[Odanan]

Adrian Pride, on 09 January 2020 - 02:07 PM, said:

But is there not a Modding Discord Group with around 3.000 People ?
Thought all Info about modding is there

I just read 600 messages and found nothing.

God, I hate Discord.

[LordNothing]

uhgg. "lets make our software dependant on some obscure closed source library with an unorthodox license written by one guy who is probably dead, in prison, or decided to convert to the amish faith"

will developers ever learn?

Edited by LordNothing, 11 January 2020 - 04:04 AM.

[LordNothing]

Nesutizale, on 09 January 2020 - 01:15 PM, said:

Russ often seams not to know the current state of the game. How often do you hear him say "Oh good question, have to ask the guys" or "not sure, should be in".

As for the mod support. I think he realy means the Epic store function that is similar ot steams workshop and when I follow chat on Discord or some people here...putting a file into a folder seams to be to much to ask for.
I read several times that people said "I know modding is possible without steams workshop but I don't want to do it, to much work".

russ's job is mostly to yell at a lot of smart people to make impossible deadlines. this is why i like game companies where the ceo is also the head developer. so when they yell at their people to work harder they do it in a way that doesn't completely undermine the whole project with a bunch of nasty shortcuts.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 January 2020 - 04:17 AM.

[Koniving]

So, I looked up the plugin, and if it is the same plugin and person... the license information is as follows:

Quote

You can make any edits you want and distribute as you please. You need only credit me.

I understand there might be some legal reasons to not wanna do it without giving some compensation or getting a waiver signed so that the author can't turn around and sue... but I mean his licensing info is pretty straight forward.

[Koniving]

Nesutizale, on 10 January 2020 - 02:45 AM, said:

If it would just be so easy

It actually is almost that easy.
The problem is if done in exactly that way, every time the AI is about to shoot it'd need to do a check for this thing called "friendly."
But then it needs a definition of what is friendly. Currently all that exists to AI is Object and Structure, and the world looks like this. (Minus the nav/mesh).

What marks an enemy is the fact that it can be targeted.
What detects an enemy...is the fact that it can be targeted.
In fact, enemies are defined as "target."

Spoiler

In a recent mission, I managed to observe a bunch of enemies undetected. The Warrior VTOL pattern of behavior btw makes no sense and its movement is very unnatural. Tanks kinda sorta patrol-ish [generated map], and the mechs were stationary. None were looking in my way, and none could detect me. But then one of the two VTOLs turned my way and detected me, and this taught me something else.
There's no global detection, either, and they don't share target info. As only the one VTOL came for me, and I was able to shoot it out of the sky without drawing any attention despite being less than 600 meters away from all the other enemies.
It wasn't until a ground impact near them that suddenly several units turned toward the impact and in the process got the conditions to "target" me.
And all hell broke loose.

Otherwise everything is an "object."
For some reason, buildings are specified not as objects but as "structures", and treated differently. This is likely due to the "War Stories" issue that they had with the AI and how it basically didn't care about buildings, so designating them as Structures likely tells the AI to have a chance of going through them rather than actively not giving two shits.

Then, after defining what a friendly is..
We'd then have to decide how to check if a friendly is in the line of fire.
If every time the mech is about to shoot, it casts a ray-trace to the target line and gets a friendly instead, that is one way... but with every vehicle, every turret, every mech doing this every time they are about to shoot any weapon, we'd have some nasty performance issues.
So what's another method? The game already checks for convergence. The AI doesn't, but the game does. So you aim at something 200 meters away and fire, the weapons will converge at 200 meters. Game already does this, no performance hits as it's already done. What if the AI were somehow made aware of this?
Target is at 450. Prepare to shoot. Convergence at 75 meters?!?!?! Don't shoot!
But this requires the AI to store information and compare it. I don't think this would have nearly as much of an effect on performance as a raytrace, but.. I haven't tried it before either.

But I know one thing.
I gave Freeman a Panther, and damn is he accurate with that thing.
But he has no firing discrimination and four times in a single mission he's hit me with the damn thing either directly or via splash effect.

Edited by Koniving, 11 January 2020 - 06:58 AM.