67 replies to this topic

[FRAGTAST1C]

Over the last year, I had a chance to pick the 5H(C) and 5H(S) for free and I didn't. *sigh*

[Y E O N N E]

RickySpanish, on 27 January 2020 - 05:35 PM, said:

Thanks that's interesting, I've run mine with 5 ML and an XL 300 and packed it full of heatsinks. It does indeed work fine in QP but I imagine it would get XL checked in FP.

'
Not really; if you're using it well, the enemy won't generally have time to zero in on the STs and check it, and the hitboxes are pretty good at spreading damage.

[RickySpanish]

Y E O N N E, on 27 January 2020 - 07:57 PM, said:

'
Not really; if you're using it well, the enemy won't generally have time to zero in on the STs and check it, and the hitboxes are pretty good at spreading damage.

In QP I don't have any points in the mobility tree because I find that it's a pretty agile 'Mech and it's nicer to have the left side of survival plus points left over. I just assumed there was a reason Vxheous was using a light engine. I've tried and tried to get a better mix of damage and heat dissipation (while keeping 5 medium lasers) with different engines but I always end up back to where I started - xl 300 with light ferro armour. I used to sport an xl 340 with endo, but this build is slightly more heat efficient and barely loses speed. It would be nice to find an optimal mix of damage output, weapon recharge and jump jet recharge and heat dissipation, where the 'Mech is ready to poptart as frequently as possible. I dumped some points into the jump jet tree for a laugh and it turned out quite well. The agility is noticeable, but so is the difference in quality of opponents in QP.

[Vxheous]

RickySpanish, on 27 January 2020 - 08:55 PM, said:

In QP I don't have any points in the mobility tree because I find that it's a pretty agile 'Mech and it's nicer to have the left side of survival plus points left over. I just assumed there was a reason Vxheous was using a light engine. I've tried and tried to get a better mix of damage and heat dissipation (while keeping 5 medium lasers) with different engines but I always end up back to where I started - xl 300 with light ferro armour. I used to sport an xl 340 with endo, but this build is slightly more heat efficient and barely loses speed. It would be nice to find an optimal mix of damage output, weapon recharge and jump jet recharge and heat dissipation, where the 'Mech is ready to poptart as frequently as possible. I dumped some points into the jump jet tree for a laugh and it turned out quite well. The agility is noticeable, but so is the difference in quality of opponents in QP.

Personally, I've stopped using IS XL engines in anything larger than a light mech, but that's me. I hate dying to XL torso loss, or that I have to immediately change my aggression the moment an IS XL mech gets torso opened, but that's me. I'd rather sacrifice 5kph and live through side torso destruction, even if it means I'll probably get chris'ed anyways a few seconds later.

It's also not an issue of twisting, see old XL Battlemaster 2c below:

Edited by Vxheous, 27 January 2020 - 09:34 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

I just go XL in the HPPC / 5H simply because of the extra 2 DHS, it makes quite a difference over time I find for FP at least where DPS is important especially on hot maps (where I usually bring it).

If I am dying to a torso loss I've generally got two open torsos and a CT, so I'm basically dead anyway. Plus its a poptart, low exposure time.

In laser vom I'll bring LFE cause it doesn't matter so much for DHS and longer exposure time.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Should I bother with an Assault mech of some sort or just go with 3 Grasshopper 5H + Blackjack for an IS ERPPC deck?

[RickySpanish]

Vxheous, on 27 January 2020 - 09:32 PM, said:

I'd rather sacrifice 5kph and live through side torso destruction, even if it means I'll probably get chris'ed anyways a few seconds later.

What a perfect way to describe it.

[Vxheous]

FRAGTAST1C, on 27 January 2020 - 10:04 PM, said:

Should I bother with an Assault mech of some sort or just go with 3 Grasshopper 5H + Blackjack for an IS ERPPC deck?

I find poptarting to be strong when you have an entire team capable of doing it, but otherwise, going with Assaults is a more much safe deck to use.

[justcallme A S H]

FRAGTAST1C, on 27 January 2020 - 10:04 PM, said:

Should I bother with an Assault mech of some sort or just go with 3 Grasshopper 5H + Blackjack for an IS ERPPC deck?

For ERL?

Battlemaster or Stalker.

I drop 2 Assaults simply because it is extremely rare in a long range map to use all 4 mechs as there is often 5mins of just walking across a map. So you really want to front load a deck hard for maximum damage/DPS for the time spent.

For mid-range maps I usually don't drop 2 Assaults and spread the tonnage a bit more evenly. I find that works best for me if I get rushed one wave or something I can recover if tonnage is more spread out.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Vxheous, on 27 January 2020 - 11:11 PM, said:

I find poptarting to be strong when you have an entire team capable of doing it, but otherwise, going with Assaults is a more much safe deck to use.

justcallme A S H, on 27 January 2020 - 11:17 PM, said:

For ERL?

Battlemaster or Stalker.
.........

Oh! Well, I already have a Battlemaster and a couple of Stalkers with 5 ERLLs. I was thinking of ditching ERLLs for ERPPCs to get more range and with pop-tarting, I thought I could reduce the exposure time. I should've thought about losing 25 extra damage from 5 ERLL vs 2 ERPPC.

[ShiverMeRivets]

Cataphract 3D is the jumping 70 tonner no one remembers. Is is actually very good and the ST energy hard points are cockpit level. You can pop tart PPCs or even AC10+2PPC (STD engine) / AC10+HPPC+LPPC (LFE) / LB10x+2PPC (LFE) combo.

If you have the MC, Grasshopper hero Mjolnir is even better HPPC hopper than the 5H. It is so tanky that I happily run it with a huge XL engine.

Edited by ShiverMeRivets, 28 January 2020 - 12:22 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

FRAGTAST1C, on 27 January 2020 - 07:46 AM, said:

My real question is, I guess, is there any 70t IS mech that can do ERPPC pop-tart like the Summoner?

Cataphract. Obviously.

Played CTF-3D rather recently, on 4 JJs it flyes like a boss. Can go ERPPCs and backups, ERPPCs and ballistic, HPPCs and backups, either way works. ST energy mounts are high enough.

[justcallme A S H]

ShiverMeRivets, on 28 January 2020 - 12:18 AM, said:

Cataphract 3D is the jumping 70 tonner no one remembers. Is is actually very good and the ST energy hard points are cockpit level. You can pop tart PPCs or even AC10+2PPC (STD engine) / AC10+HPPC+LPPC (LFE) / LB10x+2PPC (LFE) combo.

If you have the MC, Grasshopper hero Mjolnir is even better HPPC hopper than the 5H. It is so tanky that I happily run it with a huge XL engine.

No one remembers for good reason

The only decent variant would be the CTF-1X (the 3D has more energy, same issue as next sentence). I concur in that it has 2 high mounts in the torso and a heat-gen quirk... But that is where it ends. The other arm energy and ballistic in other variants is super low mounted.

The GHP also have much better agility. It's torso twist speed is ~15% faster. Plus it is not a massive CT/Torso and can shield side-on far better than a CTF. Even with quirks the CTF is still a walking CT with pretty bad torso as well due to the arms not shielding at all really.

I mean yeah you can use it, but it's not great if you want the best for the job and I would say those reasons are all significant, not just a 1% type deal.

And no the Mjolnir is nowhere near better than the GHP-5H. That is flatly incorrect. The GHP-MJ has no heat quirk which is the most important factor and why the GHP-5H is truly that much better.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 28 January 2020 - 02:38 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

FRAGTAST1C, on 27 January 2020 - 11:58 PM, said:

Oh! Well, I already have a Battlemaster and a couple of Stalkers with 5 ERLLs. I was thinking of ditching ERLLs for ERPPCs to get more range and with pop-tarting, I thought I could reduce the exposure time. I should've thought about losing 25 extra damage from 5 ERLL vs 2 ERPPC.

You can't really with 2 ERPPC vs 5 ERL BLR.

I mean a poptart CAN out-trade a laser burn mech - but in FP, that's rare these days to see anyone skilled enough to do that consistently.

Thus go with IS ERL.

BLR-1G

STK-3FB - STD/TC2/ECM

[FRAGTAST1C]

Just had a look at the Cataphract 3D on Mechdb. Looks promising. Doesn't have any quirks to benefit ERPPCs but it has armour quirks and with LFE300, it can mount a TC lv2 and 10 additional DHS (11 with some armour shaving).

Edit:-

@Ash : I have the Battlemaster but not that particular Stalker. I have the 4N and 5S. I'll put that in the shopping list. I'll buy the other mechs for pop-tarting and see how it goes, mainly with the Grasshopper.

Edited by FRAGTAST1C, 28 January 2020 - 03:00 AM.

[Vxheous]

FRAGTAST1C, on 28 January 2020 - 02:56 AM, said:

Just had a look at the Cataphract 3D on Mechdb. Looks promising. Doesn't have any quirks to benefit ERPPCs but it has armour quirks and with LFE300, it can mount a TC lv2 and 10 additional DHS (11 with some armour shaving).

Edit:-

@Ash : I have the Battlemaster but not that particular Stalker. I have the 4N and 5S. I'll put that in the shopping list. I'll buy the other mechs for pop-tarting and see how it goes, mainly with the Grasshopper.

Like Ash said, it's a giant CT, but play what you want.

[justcallme A S H]

FRAGTAST1C, on 28 January 2020 - 02:56 AM, said:

Just had a look at the Cataphract 3D on Mechdb. Looks promising. Doesn't have any quirks to benefit ERPPCs but it has armour quirks and with LFE300, it can mount a TC lv2 and 10 additional DHS (11 with some armour shaving).

Edit:-

@Ash : I have the Battlemaster but not that particular Stalker. I have the 4N and 5S. I'll put that in the shopping list. I'll buy the other mechs for pop-tarting and see how it goes, mainly with the Grasshopper.

Honestly the CTF is garbage for FP trading - straight up.

The 3FB just has ECM, long range maps always attract plenty of Humble Cernorama's... So it can help substantially if you have a positioning fail.

There are actually other Stalkers that are good.

Range quirked 5ERL:
STK-5S - LFE / SHS build - Idea is to ALWAYS alpha 5ERL if possible. If not just one side peak x 3 or x4 high ridge peak
STK-5S - STD / Max DHS build

Range quirked 4ERL - Mega TC/Range
STK-3H - STD / TC5 - 21DHS

Even mega range (although IMO its worthless...)
STK-3H

And even more DHS
STK-3H

[justcallme A S H]

And before people ask... "What is the RL10 for?"

RL10 in the arms is NOT to ever be fired. Don't alpha key, dont weapon group them.

Putting a RL10 means you get missile-bay doors attached to the mech. Missile bay doors reduce damage by 20%.

Thus I believe that they are of critical importance to have the RL10s for their tonnage - especially in a FP/ERL trade war. The reduction value cannot be ignored.

[VonBruinwald]

I thought the damage reduction persisted after firing.

I know you need a weapons system for the reduction but it seems rather convoluted for it to no longer apply because you ran out of ammo.

[justcallme A S H]

VonBruinwald, on 28 January 2020 - 06:51 AM, said:

I thought the damage reduction persisted after firing.

I know you need a weapons system for the reduction but it seems rather convoluted for it to no longer apply because you ran out of ammo.

If the doors are open you lose the bonus until the close again. Or the weapon is expended (in the case of RLs).

Thus always have them.

Same as a Kintaro. The CT Missile slot - put a RL10 in it. I ran that build for comp for 2-3 seasons as that was my role. 20% reduction to CT is such a huge bonus - I cannot actually articulate how big of a buff that is combined with the armour side of the skillmaze.