297 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

I would point out that the people who post messages in the forums are at best 1% of the remaining player base and the 20th spot for today's top 20 posters goes to someone who made TWO posts. This is not the time to be going ahead developing a merged solo/group queue when the majority of players aren't going to actually learn about it until after its been implemented and as we all know, PGI has a habit of not backing up previous code to be able to just revert back to how things were before.

[NeroWolfe]

Please keep "solo queue" solo. The addition of groups of 4 organized players will totally throw off the game balance. As a solo player I don't want to be faced with lopsided stomps (winning side or the losing side), I want good games. This decision could discourage the remaining solo players into just giving up the game, and if that happens "well done PGI"(sarcasm).

I hope you don't do this.

[Droolcup Commando]

Im personally all for the small groups in solo que. My friend and i quit playing due to the fact we could no longer play together outside of FW. Now that have a chance to, our interest in playing has come back.
I dont care if the matches become stomps...cause i can get stomped together and the times when we win will feel that much better. Maybe you all should get a bit tough and handle loss like normal people.

[Andrzej Lechrenski]

At the end of the day, this is a 12v12 team game. If introducing groups of 4 into the solo queue causes more people to start thinking about joining groups and maintaining voice comms with them... GOOD.

As much as I would *love* to see a fix to the PSR system, this game is gasping for life with fewer resources every day. Please, PLEASE, give the last few hundred of us who still play regularly a chance to play with our friends, instead of being doomed to match after miserable match of deaf, mute solipsists, before the lights in the server room go off forever.

Edited by Andrzej Lechrenski, 22 April 2020 - 11:14 PM.

[Horseman]

justcallme A S H, on 22 April 2020 - 06:25 PM, said:

60%??

That's generous.

Players in the 30% range are well known to have "made it" and acquired that coveted Tier 1 marker.

Unfortunately, that observation is spot on.

[ccrider]

PGI: we fixed FP, it's goddam perfect now. Time to look at what else needs attention...new content? Nope. Game has everything it needs. New mechs? Nah, the entire stable of mechs is already in game. New weapons? Nope. We have enough. Might confuse people if we add more.

I know, mix solo and groups in QP! There's tons of threads addressing that situation in FP so people must love the idea!


Now code it in and never check the forums again. EVER.

Jobs a good 'un.

[Hoaggie]

Its always great when you invite your friend who has never played before, they spend an hour downloading the game and doing the tutorial, then you sit in the group Q for another hour without finding a match.

Plz fix

[Dee Eight]

Hoaggie, on 23 April 2020 - 02:26 AM, said:

Its always great when you invite your friend who has never played before, they spend an hour downloading the game and doing the tutorial, then you sit in the group Q for another hour without finding a match.

Plz fix

Ummm... create a new account also, then attempt to sync drop together. That's what I would do to try and play with friends with new accounts rather than depend on group queue fixes.

[Alreech]

w4ldO, on 22 April 2020 - 04:25 AM, said:

no
a checkbox for opt-in would put you into group queue

So opt in-group as Solo Player would move you from the Solo Quickplay Queue to the Group Quickplay Queue.
PGI don't have to code a check box for that, they have just to reduce the minimum group size in group matchmaking from 2 players to 1 players.
And set the matchmaker rules to prevent a Team of 12 "one player groups".

[Aidan Crenshaw]

This here ^ would split the QP-Queue effectively. What would be necessary, though would be an opt-in function where the singleplayer is drawn into the groupmatch as-needed but otherwise drops into the single-queue on a first come, first serve basis. Just like when you have serveral regional servers activated.

Edited by Aidan Crenshaw, 23 April 2020 - 04:19 AM.

[Larsh]

Alreech, on 23 April 2020 - 04:13 AM, said:

So opt in-group as Solo Player would move you from the Solo Quickplay Queue to the Group Quickplay Queue.
PGI don't have to code a check box for that, they have just to reduce the minimum group size in group matchmaking from 2 players to 1 players.
And set the matchmaker rules to prevent a Team of 12 "one player groups".

This is a really good idea.

The only thing I think I could see as a downside is it may split the solo queue members (those that check the box, and those that don't) If we have enough players on at one time this would be a viable solution.

[KHETTI]

kek RiP Seals, welcome to getting farmed online.

[Alreech]

Larsh, on 22 April 2020 - 06:34 PM, said:

MWO is a team game after all.

Not in Solo Quickplay.
You meet your "Team" in the pre-match score board,
you don't have the time to coordinate before the match starts (like choosing lance leaders)
you don't even know the loadout and speed of you teammates
you don't have a 2nd spawn - so if you get killed for you team it's Game Over
and you won't have to play again with your team after the match

To be honest: it's total sensible to use your 11 "teammates" as meatshield in Solo Quickplay.
It's sensible to avoid risks and a game over.
If you get killed early you get some assists and nothing else, if you stay long enough alive you get some kills even you lose the match.
I don't like it, but i play that way in Solo Quickplay.

The same applies mot or less to Group Quickplay:
You meet most your "Team" in the pre-match score board,
you can only coordinate with your group before the match starts (choosing mechs & lance leaders)
you only know the loadout and speed of you group mates
you don't have a 2nd spawn - so if you get killed for you team it's Game Over
and you won't have to play again with most of your team after the match

[KHETTI]

Andrzej Lechrenski, on 22 April 2020 - 11:05 PM, said:

At the end of the day, this is a 12v12 team game. If introducing groups of 4 into the solo queue causes more people to start thinking about joining groups and maintaining voice comms with them... GOOD.

It won't though, we've been here before and it did the opposite, but whatever, the games dead anyways.

[FRAGTAST1C]

So, if I'm reading the main post correctly, PGI want to merge Solo with GQ but limit the group to a 4-man but nothing is going to be done about the tier/PSR system. Ok....

[Alreech]

Horseman, on 22 April 2020 - 08:44 AM, said:

Another possible way to improve this is only mixing groups with solos who have enabled voice comms - groups coordinate, players who cannot (or are unwilling to) participate would be detrimental to their team's performance and that would lead to unpleasant matches for both themselves and the other players (the frustration when the last guys on your team throw a match because they couldn't hear tactical information on comms is something else)

Groups in MWO coordinate before they even enter matchmaking:
They decide what Mechs they want to play.
In most cases those Mechs have compatible speed and loadouts.
They have a drop leader tho leads via external Voice com, and all players in that Channel speak the same language.

Even good internal VOIP allows a team to coordinate only during the match, all the pre-match making coordination groups do can't be done via VOIP in the 5 minutes in the pre-match Score Board.

An MWOs VOIP isn't good.
With 11 potential speakers in the team channel it's to big.
Most of the spoken information is adressed to a lance member, so it justs affects 3 other players & the speaker.
It also works only during the match, not during match making or before in the group screen.
So you can't realy test & adjust it outside a match.

A fine example for a good VOIP is the old Battlefield 2 from 2005:
One Channel for the players of a Squad of 6 players = 5 potential Speaker
Squad Leaders can talk to the Commander & Commander talk to the Squad leaders without confusing other teammates.

IMHO MWO could use a similar system:
Create Group Channel with group = VOIP can be used before matchmaking
Group Leader = Admin of the Channel, can mute group members of this subchannel

Create Team Channel during matchmaking. Move Group Channels to Team Channel during matchmaking
Group Leaders kann use a "Push to Talk" Key to speak to Group Leaders in the same team channel
Disolve Team Channel after match, keep the group channel.
This should work in Teamspeak, and MWO uses Teamspeak as VOIP solution.

[Larsh]

Alreech, on 23 April 2020 - 04:44 AM, said:

Not in Solo Quickplay.
You meet your "Team" in the pre-match score board,
you don't have the time to coordinate before the match starts (like choosing lance leaders)
you don't even know the loadout and speed of you teammates
you don't have a 2nd spawn - so if you get killed for you team it's Game Over
and you won't have to play again with your team after the match

To be honest: it's total sensible to use your 11 "teammates" as meatshield in Solo Quickplay.
It's sensible to avoid risks and a game over.
If you get killed early you get some assists and nothing else, if you stay long enough alive you get some kills even you lose the match.
I don't like it, but i play that way in Solo Quickplay.

The same applies mot or less to Group Quickplay:
You meet most your "Team" in the pre-match score board,
you can only coordinate with your group before the match starts (choosing mechs & lance leaders)
you only know the loadout and speed of you group mates
you don't have a 2nd spawn - so if you get killed for you team it's Game Over
and you won't have to play again with most of your team after the match

Ok, I can see your point, and I'm not going to derail this forum discussion on player nuances and play styles. But, where in this post is a reasoning on how to fix the current issue of not being able to find other groups in GQ?

[Ted Brooks]

Thumbs up for combining group and solo queue again. me and a buddy played a lot of funny, good, balanced and entertaining matches a long time ago in a 2-pilot group. we tried to play in this 2-man group scenario occasionally in the last months/year(s) with no luck. even waiting 15 min+ didn't help. we both lust after this kind of plays and would be more then happy.
KR Ted

[Alreech]

Larsh, on 23 April 2020 - 06:08 AM, said:

Ok, I can see your point, and I'm not going to derail this forum discussion on player nuances and play styles. But, where in this post is a reasoning on how to fix the current issue of not being able to find other groups in GQ?

Issue of not finding other groups in GQ:

Not enough smal groups in GQ.
Reason:
for small groups GQ & Solo are the same: no teams, just meatshield.
But in Solo you don't get stomped by bigger groups, so Solo is better.
Players who don't like that style of play have left MWO, reducing the number of players in the last years.

And that problem isn't unexcepted, and it has many causes:
PGI game design that is build around of player groups of 4 player acting as team (lances) and the decission to not enforce this 4 player limit on group level.
And PGI first front end design for MWO without a lobby to find groups = play with your friends or play Solo
The delay of the respawn mechanic (Dropship Mode/ Dropdecks) = leads to a selfish playstile without risks = no teamwork
All that was critisised from the beginnig of MWO.

Even after PGI finally introduced Faction Warfare with Dropdecks most MWO players stayed in Solo & Group Quickplay, others have left the game.

Fixing Group Play isn't a thing that can be done while retaining stuff like:
uneven group sizes that make matchmaking more complicated
lack of teamwork due group sizes that are incompatible with the ingame lances
lack of teamwork due lack of pre-game coordination
gamedesign what benefits egoistic gameplay (using teammates as meatshield because of "last man standing get the kills" & no respawn).

And finally splitting the remaining player base by retaining overlapping game modes:
Solo Solaris & Solo Quickplay & Solo Faction for Solo Players
Faction Warfare Scouting, Duo Solaris & Group Quickplay for small groups (4 player group = synchrodrop in Solars to play 2 vs 2 )
Group Quickplay and Faction Warfare for Groups

Fix that may work, but nobody want:
Solo
1 vs 1 = Solaris
2 vs 2 = Solaris
4 vs 4 with small dropdeck for respawns & mech selection. Matchmaker group players of the same faction together by Putting them in a group and then starts a match instead of putting them in a match directly.

Group:
Fixed size of 4 min / 4 max. Not enough players? Invite from LFG, from friend list or from the matchmaker.
Drop deck for respawns and mech selection

4 vs 4
8 vs 8
12 vs 12

Create 4 main factions for Matches with Clan vs Clan (Crusader vs Warden), IS vs IS (FedCom&Ras vs Concordate) & Clan vs IS
Make every group play part of faction ranking, reserve the Invasion stuff to 12 vs 12 game modes.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TLDR:
Fiddling with Solo Quickplayers in Group Quickplay won't save MWO, it was fracked up a long time ago but now it shows due falling player numbers.
Fixing it will need some hard cuts that may enrage the rest of the competetive players who like the playstile in Quick & Factionplay as it is now.

Edited by Alreech, 23 April 2020 - 07:38 AM.

[Larsh]

Alreech, on 23 April 2020 - 07:37 AM, said:

Fix that may work, but nobody want:
Solo
1 vs 1 = Solaris
2 vs 2 = Solaris
4 vs 4 with small dropdeck for respawns & mech selection. Matchmaker group players of the same faction together by Putting them in a group and then starts a match instead of putting them in a match directly.

Group:
Fixed size of 4 min / 4 max. Not enough players? Invite from LFG, from friend list or from the matchmaker.
Drop deck for respawns and mech selection

4 vs 4
8 vs 8
12 vs 12

Create 4 main factions for Matches with Clan vs Clan (Crusader vs Warden), IS vs IS (FedCom&Ras vs Concordate) & Clan vs IS
Make every group play part of faction ranking, reserve the Invasion stuff to 12 vs 12 game modes.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TLDR:
Fiddling with Solo Quickplayers in Group Quickplay won't save MWO, it was fracked up a long time ago but now it shows due falling player numbers.
Fixing it will need some hard cuts that may enrage the rest of the competetive players who like the playstile in Quick & Factionplay as it is now.

Now these are solutions, as a casual player, I could get behind.

If PGI could implement the idea of bringing drop decks into Group and Solo play I think that would:
1. Breath new life into this game.
2. Allow some players to create some sort of strategy with what mechs they select for their first to last drop. I might add that drop decks be 3 mechs instead of 4 that we see in FP.
3. Would lessen the feel of a stomp if that does happen due to experienced players vs inexperienced. If if your first selection was a bad match up, then you can study what went wrong on your first drop, and go from there.

As much as it pains me, I think Solaris queues as they are should be removed. I'm one of the few that enjoys this game mode, and I realize the amount of time PGI spent on it. They were going in a good direction by adding flavor with voice overs from Duncan Fisher, and attempting to create various tiers with the mechs. But, this mode splits up the player base too much, and I really don't know many who still play it.