40 replies to this topic

[Willard Phule]

A better idea would be to publicly announce that the entire PSR system was a joke, was never applied properly and is being scrapped entirely. One "tier" for everyone, from beginner to veteran.

I mean, might as well, that's how it works with the matchmaker anyway.

[letir]

This entire idea is so stupid. Punishment for being good at game, really? In competetive MMO game, no less?

[FRAGTAST1C]

Willard Phule, on 16 May 2020 - 12:18 PM, said:

A better idea would be to publicly announce that the entire PSR system was a joke, was never applied properly and is being scrapped entirely. One "tier" for everyone, from beginner to veteran.

I mean, might as well, that's how it works with the matchmaker anyway.

Just remove QP and keep only FW. At least the pay-outs will be better.

[LordNothing]

FRAGTAST1C, on 16 May 2020 - 07:43 PM, said:

Just remove QP and keep only FW. At least the pay-outs will be better.

i'm definitely a proponent of an fp merge. that was supposed to be the game anyway. qp was just the beta.

it could work with its match maker, and maybe a group size limit like whats being tested in qp now (i can hear the team player's teeth grinding as they read this). the problem with fp early on was there was a lot of us vs them between unit and solo players. mostly stemming from the fact that there were so many big unit vs skittle team games, most of which were landslides. the result was a massive schism in the community while a hand full of big units dominating and pugs fleeing to qp. what you really needed to do was mix small groups and pugs so they play with each other instead of against in fair battles.

12v12 could still be a thing with a direct challenge system or custom games. big teams may need to accept smaller drop sizes if they want to keep their mode, because the way i see it a qp merge is more likely to happen otherwise simply because thats where the players are. though i have a feeling that pgi are just going to let it rot.

Edited by LordNothing, 17 May 2020 - 01:34 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

LordNothing, on 17 May 2020 - 01:33 AM, said:

i'm definitely a proponent of an fp merge. that was supposed to be the game anyway. qp was just the beta.

..............................

12v12 could still be a thing with a direct challenge system or custom games. big teams may need to accept smaller drop sizes if they want to keep their mode, because the way i see it a qp merge is more likely to happen otherwise simply because thats where the players are. though i have a feeling that pgi are just going to let it rot.

Yeah, just remove soup queue and keep only FW and limit the group size to 4-man. That way, there's no need for MM since players can change allegiance whenever they want and the MM puts teams together based on the current conflict. Plus, since there will be so many people queuing up, you'll get matches rather quickly for anyone. On top of that, the pay-out will be better.

[Sjorpha]

In order to calculate a handycap pgi would need an accurate way to measure skill.

But if pgi had an accurate way to measure skill the matchmaker could just make balanced teams instead.

[Gagis]

Having the matchmaker take the skill of players into account would probably be enough without extra steps like this needed.

The matchmaker currently does not account for player skill.

[Warning incoming Humble Dexterer]

thievingmagpi, on 15 May 2020 - 08:51 PM, said:

has there ever been a game that's ever attempted to shame being good as much as mwo does?

Games like World Of Tanks are 100% Pay To Win, but because you can't create full groups in it you can't just fill a group up to the top with Premium players to bypass any kind of matchmaking and go farm everyone else out of the game.

MWO is closer to being 0% Pay To Win, but it's ability to create full groups acts as a loophole to completely bypass any kind of even remotely fair matchmaking...

And nobody is going to congratulate you for your ability to abuse that pretty dumb legal exploit feature of abusing group mechanics to completely bypass any kind of even remotely balanced matchmaking.

That's why in WMO, group players only have each other to admire. If you want group glory instead of group shame, go group for Comp play instead.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Warning incoming Humble Dexterer, on 17 May 2020 - 02:09 PM, said:

And nobody is going to congratulate you for your ability to abuse that pretty dumb legal exploit feature of abusing group mechanics to completely bypass any kind of even remotely balanced matchmaking.

That's why in WMO, group players only have each other to admire. If you want group glory instead of group shame, go group for Comp play instead.

No matter what the groups do, they're always OP, right? I mean, it's not like they do badly regardless of direct fire or lock-on mechs. They always do well thanks to their group-exploit compared to the lock-on-only people who constantly fight so hard for their team by relying on others to get doritos to pop up.

[LordNothing]

Gagis, on 17 May 2020 - 04:08 AM, said:

Having the matchmaker take the skill of players into account would probably be enough without extra steps like this needed.

The matchmaker currently does not account for player skill.

keep in mind the fp match maker is elo based and not psr based. so its a completely different system that should in theory be better at tracking skill than psr ever did. elo only cares about victories which does include capacity for team work (which is a useful skill to have in fp even if you are a pug player). sure you could be better in other ways, say a pug with excellent gunnery. elo doesnt care about that though, only whether what you did resulted in a win or not.

[VonBruinwald]

FRAGTAST1C, on 18 May 2020 - 05:27 AM, said:

No matter what the groups do, they're always OP, right? I mean, it's not like they do badly regardless of direct fire or lock-on mechs. They always do well thanks to their group-exploit compared to the lock-on-only people who constantly fight so hard for their team by relying on others to get doritos to pop up.

We all know teamwork is OP, it's why we didn't want merged queues.
We also know groups are prone to abusing tonnage limits whenever possible.
We also, also know group players are happy to sync drop when it confers an unfair advantage.

You're can't blame the combination of these being used on solos, on the solos.

I might have to breakout the tinfoil if you really believe that.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 18 May 2020 - 07:58 AM.

[Sjorpha]

LordNothing, on 18 May 2020 - 06:27 AM, said:

keep in mind the fp match maker is elo based and not psr based. so its a completely different system that should in theory be better at tracking skill than psr ever did. elo only cares about victories which does include capacity for team work (which is a useful skill to have in fp even if you are a pug player). sure you could be better in other ways, say a pug with excellent gunnery. elo doesnt care about that though, only whether what you did resulted in a win or not.

Faction play basically fires matches as they fill up, I really doubt a system with a population that low is producing a relevant elo rating.

[FRAGTAST1C]

VonBruinwald, on 18 May 2020 - 07:40 AM, said:

You're can't blame the combination of these being used on solos, on the solos.

I might have to breakout the tinfoil if you really believe that.

If there are to be accusations, make sure you don't use a broad brush then.

Sjorpha, on 18 May 2020 - 08:45 AM, said:

Faction play basically fires matches as they fill up, I really doubt a system with a population that low is producing a relevant elo rating.

The ELO comes into play when solos are needed to fill up the empty slots. If an individual doesn't have a good match rating, then they get skipped in favour of someone better. However, even that is implemented horribly giving the impression that FP matches are all about filling a 12-vs-12 requirement.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

FRAGTAST1C, on 18 May 2020 - 09:18 AM, said:

The ELO comes into play when solos are needed to fill up the empty slots. If an individual doesn't have a good match rating, then they get skipped in favour of someone better. However, even that is implemented horribly giving the impression that FP matches are all about filling a 12-vs-12 requirement.

quite frankly: a certain someone, let's call him Saul, hasn't got a clue how faction play works, and seems even proud as ever to 'know better'. nobody should be surprised his theory of 'how this might work' doesn't overlap with reality at all, right?

yeah, the MM could use ELO, slap on some more magic and BOOM! you got the perfect, satisfying match for everybody;
reality is that there's FAR to few people left* to pick from, so that the MM desperately grabs the 24 people it can scratch together - no matter how mismatched that is.

I could rant on, but .. it's just sad

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 18 May 2020 - 10:16 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

FRAGTAST1C, on 18 May 2020 - 09:18 AM, said:

If there are to be accusations, make sure you don't use a broad brush then.

FRAGTAST1C, on 18 May 2020 - 05:27 AM, said:

They always do well thanks to their group-exploit compared to the lock-on-only people who constantly fight so hard for their team by relying on others to get doritos to pop up.

Pot meet kettle.

(And before you say anything, I'm a little teacup.)

[Gagis]

Elo would work just fine. The fewer players there are, the more matches you need to get reliable statistics, but even with just 24 players as the maximum population that ever plays, it would work. Might take them a few hundred games to get there, but thats not much of a problem.

[VonBruinwald]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 18 May 2020 - 10:09 AM, said:

reality is that there's FAR to few people left* to pick from, so that the MM desperately grabs the 24 people it can scratch together - no matter how mismatched that is.

It doesn't help when the MM stacks all the good players on one team.
MM seems to work like this:

• Find 24 players within "x" skill range > Launch match

When really it should:

• Find 24 players within "x" skill range > Balance players between teams > Launch match

With a larger enough pool the 1st works since the initial 24 are within a smaller bracket. But now that we're dredging the bottom, well.... it shows.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

gents, that was a rant about how the MMM (MagicalMatchMaker) actually works in Faction right now ..

yeah, it could work in QP (without the Groups, which was ***** to begin with)
nope, it can never work in faction with the population we got;

[Knight Captain Morgan]

thievingmagpi, on 15 May 2020 - 08:51 PM, said:

has there ever been a game that's ever attempted to shame being good as much as mwo does?

I heard that 3% of all games do. Don't remember where I heard that.

[FRAGTAST1C]

VonBruinwald, on 18 May 2020 - 10:16 AM, said:

Pot meet kettle.

(And before you say anything, I'm a little teacup.)

That was in response to your friend's insane post. Please learn to remember at least 3 posts before you simply quote something and type your response. Thank you.