28 replies to this topic

[R Valentine]

LordNothing, on 07 June 2020 - 12:19 PM, said:

thing about top 2-3%ers is that they make up only 2-3% of the population. you arent going to run into them enough for it to matter. also when we get zero sum the mm is going to look at their skill and stick them with a bunch of tater pugs.

and they probably went up because of how potato people have been playing lately.

You can keep paddling up that river, but it doesn't change the facts. It's stupid easy to farm W/L ratio in a group of 3 or 4. Even a duo with appropriate mechs and positioning can take a game that would otherwise be a loss and turn it into an easy 12-6 victory. 3%ers aren't winning more because the rest of the world suddenly got extra bad. In reality, the rest of the player base hasn't changed, only now instead of one top tier player on a team you get 4 who stomp on the potatoes 4x as hard and 4x as fast. And there's no chance they'll ever see one another on the opposite team because they're all in the same group.

[LordNothing]

Kiran Yagami, on 08 June 2020 - 11:41 AM, said:

You can keep paddling up that river, but it doesn't change the facts. It's stupid easy to farm W/L ratio in a group of 3 or 4. Even a duo with appropriate mechs and positioning can take a game that would otherwise be a loss and turn it into an easy 12-6 victory. 3%ers aren't winning more because the rest of the world suddenly got extra bad. In reality, the rest of the player base hasn't changed, only now instead of one top tier player on a team you get 4 who stomp on the potatoes 4x as hard and 4x as fast. And there's no chance they'll ever see one another on the opposite team because they're all in the same group.

while this may be true. its still not going to happen all that often, certainly not enough for me to care. the thing that made fp bad was that it happened over and over and over and over and over. but unlike your typical puggernaught, i will admit that good players deserve to win. and it will get better when those teams suddenly have to pack taters to compensate for their concentrated skill.

and yes the pugs have most certainly changed. they are refusing to budge in terror of the "coordinated" lance on the other team. ive noticed that gameplay has grown a bit lethargic lately, but thats not an issue with the groups, but the pugs changing up their tactics. bs like "let them come to us" is back in full force. siege mentality brings attrition which leads to boring matches.

Edited by LordNothing, 08 June 2020 - 01:01 PM.

[Brauer]

LordNothing, on 08 June 2020 - 12:53 PM, said:

while this may be true. its still not going to happen all that often, certainly not enough for me to care. the thing that made fp bad was that it happened over and over and over and over and over. but unlike your typical puggernaught, i will admit that good players deserve to win. and it will get better when those teams suddenly have to pack taters to compensate for their concentrated skill.

I admittedly haven't played as much QP since before the merge, but I have had my group matched with largely the same opponents several matches in a row. So people do get to enjoy getting stomped multiple times in a row by the same group.

[LordNothing]

Brauer, on 08 June 2020 - 12:56 PM, said:

I admittedly haven't played as much QP since before the merge, but I have had my group matched with largely the same opponents several matches in a row. So people do get to enjoy getting stomped multiple times in a row by the same group.

easily fixed by either waiting a couple minutes, or dieing fast and getting into another match before the one you were in ended, you can do that in qp. its like the opposite of sync dropping.

Edited by LordNothing, 08 June 2020 - 01:28 PM.

[Anomalocaris]

LordNothing, on 08 June 2020 - 12:53 PM, said:

while this may be true. its still not going to happen all that often, certainly not enough for me to care.

Well, lessee, 1 in 3 matches are stomps right now. Your chance of getting a 3%er team in a match is pretty close to that too.

Sounds like a problem to me on both ends. And BTW during times of low population, you may not be able to unsync with those folks very easily......

[Brizna]

Yes the people whining all over stomps are creating a fuss about something barely perceptible, on the other hand small groups can play again and hanging out with friends and beer-warring in the weekends is a lot more fun.

[GARION26]

Kiran Yagami, on 08 June 2020 - 11:41 AM, said:

You can keep paddling up that river, but it doesn't change the facts. It's stupid easy to farm W/L ratio in a group of 3 or 4. Even a duo with appropriate mechs and positioning can take a game that would otherwise be a loss and turn it into an easy 12-6 victory. 3%ers aren't winning more because the rest of the world suddenly got extra bad. In reality, the rest of the player base hasn't changed, only now instead of one top tier player on a team you get 4 who stomp on the potatoes 4x as hard and 4x as fast. And there's no chance they'll ever see one another on the opposite team because they're all in the same group.

I'm confused though isn't the matchmaker over the last month designed primarily to match the teams with the same number of grouped players on each side? How can groups guarantee a win if they are almost always playing against a group on the other side? One group wins and the other loses - that's a zero sum game for groups win loss ratio. They've tweaked things a bit since group que merge but that group vs group factor remains a major match making concern.

Now if the issue is the matchmaker is looking at group vs group as it's primary factor but not all groups are created equal that's a different problem But that's a problem with PSR evaluation and how to factor it in vs other concerns such as group/no group, tonnage, PSR. I'd wager four tier 5 players in one group has a lot less effect on win loss then 2 Tier 1 players who have close coordination in a group of 2. That's even with the current Tiering misnomers.

This is speaking from personal experience as a Tier 5'er tiering with my tier 5 son. We don't win particularly more then usual. Even when I have one of our old school player Tier 1 buddies join us we're not winning that much. But bottom line we are having fun and I did get to pull an old Tier 1 friend into playing again after a break of years.

Edited by GARION26, 10 June 2020 - 10:49 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

There are grouped players then there are grouped players....There are grouped players who actually work as a team, their mechs/builds reflect it, then there are grouped players who want to drink beer, trash talk, shoot things while not working together....

Example, one group brings two dakka assaults + heavy while the other group brings two javlins and a blackjack. Heavy/Assault team works and sticks together with other team mates (for the most part) while the Light/med are spread out all over the place.

H/Assault group are Tier 1/2/3, avg MS ranging from 270-500 while the L/M group all have high 190/low 200 MS but reached Tier 1 by playing a ton of games.

Even before the Solo/Group merge, the teams which worked together more often are the teams which won more often than not.

Ohh, and it is the Med/Light grouped players who would complain the most about the Group queue being too competitive, not fun because they were getting their rears handed to them constantly... because they expected the other groups to carry them...

[Anomalocaris]

Brizna, on 10 June 2020 - 08:58 AM, said:

Yes the people whining all over stomps are creating a fuss about something barely perceptible, on the other hand small groups can play again and hanging out with friends and beer-warring in the weekends is a lot more fun.

That's your personal opinion. All the solo players that were perfectly happy not dropping with groups get a worse game experience now. Either you get matched with a killer 4-man that mows everyone down or a group of potatoes who "just want to play with friends". Because the matchmaker doesn't distinguish between those groups it creates imbalance.

According to PGI, groups were never more than about 15%-20% of quickplay drops even at the peak of group queue play. Yet they saw fit to screw up solo q to cater to that limited number of players.

I think its hurting them now too. Player numbers already trending lower on steam charts. We'll see how the month finishes out.