20 replies to this topic

[Plum Pudding]

Like the title asks, it would be fun to have people running all over the ground at bases and facilities on the maps that you can 'accidentally' crush underneath the feet of your mechs. A throwback to mechwarrior 3, I believe it was. I always had fun watching them scurry about in blind panic before leaving them as a red smear on the ground.

Note: I'm not a sadist, I just enjoy using unique colour schemes to paint the terrain.

Edited by Plum Pudding, 05 June 2020 - 10:13 AM.

[Bombast]

[Nesutizale]

While it was in the intro of MW3...could you actualy walk over people in MW3? I can not remember that beeing possible or maybe that was taken out because of censoring/age restrictions.
I think the stepping on that guy from the intro wasn't even in the german intro but only the english one.

Anyway I don't miss that. Infantrie should only be implemented if they could actualy shoot back. Like a consumable where you can place them on the map once. They will stay there hidden until an enemy unit comes into view and then act like they are small turrets or they just fire once with SRM and small lasers or MGs and then disperse.

Edited by Nesutizale, 05 June 2020 - 11:48 AM.

[Cyanogene]

Savage.

[jss78]

Apparently infantry is being worked on for MW5. It's a great addition to that game -- give the infantry some relatively dangerous support weapons such as (inferno) SRM's, and you can't ignore them. And creates a niche for anti-personnal weapons such as MG's and flamers.

It seems less relevant for MWO because in its essence this is a mech-vs-mech death match game, without appreciable combined arms. Of course we might later get an "MWO2" based on whatever PGI develops for MW5's engine.

[Nesutizale]

Are they worked on? I know that someone digged up some test files from MW5 that PGI worked with to test infantrie but in the end discarded them. IIRC it was to taxing while providing to little in gameplay features.

[jss78]

Nesutizale, on 06 June 2020 - 05:31 AM, said:

Are they worked on? I know that someone digged up some test files from MW5 that PGI worked with to test infantrie but in the end discarded them. IIRC it was to taxing while providing to little in gameplay features.

In one of the recent NGNG podcasts the PGI guy (I forget who) did indicate that they're working on infantry. The podcast was about modding, so PGI wanted to have it known that infantry's something they're themselves looking at.

[Nesutizale]

Mh kay...I thought that it was ment they did invested it...might have to rewatch it again but then it was pretty long.

Anyway if there would be infantrie it would need to be in a meaningfull way, not just something to step on and ignore.
Hidden infantrie can cause some seriouse damage, also they also get killed after beeing found pretty quickly.
Reminds me..dosn't the beagle also detects hidden infantrie? Would give the beagle another usage and beeing something you might actualy want to equip your mech with. Currently I find it rather useless.

[crazytimes]

Age rating. Particularly for online games. Killing humanoids means the rating is bumped up, which puts a lof of publishers and the like off it. That is why the majority of online games of this type don't have any kind of direct killing of people. It is also why a lot don't even have player characters represented by anything besides a vehicle with no physical crew.

MWO is a little unusual in that it at least has a player character you can look at in the cockpit.

[LordNothing]

Nesutizale, on 05 June 2020 - 11:46 AM, said:

While it was in the intro of MW3...could you actualy walk over people in MW3? I can not remember that beeing possible or maybe that was taken out because of censoring/age restrictions.
I think the stepping on that guy from the intro wasn't even in the german intro but only the english one.

Anyway I don't miss that. Infantrie should only be implemented if they could actualy shoot back. Like a consumable where you can place them on the map once. They will stay there hidden until an enemy unit comes into view and then act like they are small turrets or they just fire once with SRM and small lasers or MGs and then disperse.

i think the mech commander games had infantry, they would carry at most a machine gun. i think mw4 had them i think but they were mostly scenery.

what infantry should be is a hazard. each one should carry a main weapon and a sidearm and some other one use weapons like grenades. they would be able to coordinate with other infantry, focus fire on open sections of your mech. a few guys might carry heavier weapons. if there is an armory or ammo dump nearby they would be able to set up implacements with heavier support weapons, so taking those out would prevent them from arming up. things like flamers could be really dangerous especially when there are also enemy mechs nearby. they might try to attach satchel charges to your foot and might be able to really mess up your legs if you are careless. might also have other base personnel carry small arms and things like molotov cocktails. while not as coordinated as the infantry actual, they would still be an issue in large numbers. you might also have heavy infantry which can be extremely dangerous as they specialize in anti-mech maneuvers. besides being a threat to mechs if there were vehicles they would be even more dangerous to those.

also here is the weapons they might use. some of these probably wouldn't be a threat to mechs at all but maybe other infantry (maybe have an apc or something to deploy them), but many could and in large numbers. i was rather disapointed not to see any in mw5 as they would have added a lot to the game. smashing a city might be hard with civilions throwing molotov cocktails at you from the higher windows. would have been better than infinite mech and vehicle respawns.

crazytimes, on 06 June 2020 - 08:33 PM, said:

Age rating. Particularly for online games. Killing humanoids means the rating is bumped up, which puts a lof of publishers and the like off it. That is why the majority of online games of this type don't have any kind of direct killing of people. It is also why a lot don't even have player characters represented by anything besides a vehicle with no physical crew. MWO is a little unusual in that it at least has a player character you can look at in the cockpit.

its a game for middle aged men, lol. give them their violence pr0n.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 June 2020 - 11:36 PM.

[Nesutizale]

crazytimes, on 06 June 2020 - 08:33 PM, said:

Age rating. Particularly for online games. Killing humanoids means the rating is bumped up, which puts a lof of publishers and the like off it. That is why the majority of online games of this type don't have any kind of direct killing of people. It is also why a lot don't even have player characters represented by anything besides a vehicle with no physical crew.

MWO is a little unusual in that it at least has a player character you can look at in the cockpit.

On the legal side...yes in some countries you might have a problem with showing people getting stomped but then we have tons of shooters where you kill people face to face and its okay.....so its a bit wishy woshy. One would have to actualy go around for each country to check if they are okay with it.

On a technical side it could be problematic if there would actualy be an age restriction. That mean PGI would have to implement a way of veryifing the age of their players. I think that would be to much work for to little gain.

On the gameplay side...**** yes. Mixed arms could actualy improve MWO a lot. Also I don't like the mass spawning and AI of tanks and VTOLS in MW5 its a welcome change to have those. Depending on how infantrie is handled they could even make it more interesting. See Lordnothings comment.

@Lordnothing
I don't think that Infantrie would need a big mix of weapons in a mechgame. Focus on the anti-mech armament. SRMs for mobile infantrie with either normal SRMs or Infernos. Then more entranched version with SL or MGs.

Molotivs: Well they wouldn't do any kind of damage to a mech as they don't burn hot enough BUT they could hinder the view. Imagne you beeing hit on the sensors or head. Night and Heat Vision would be useless and even normal vision would be hindered by flames or just the flickering of heat. That can be an interesting gameplay effect.

Civilians: I wouldn't include them. For one part legal reasons. I fear that someone will file a law suit if anything but military personal is involved. The other thing is...except for some rare cases most civilians in BT know when a mech comes to town you do one thing....run !
Even foot soldiers mostly shy away from faceing a mech on foot. Only the most desperate do it or when the story asks for it.
Anti mech tactics took a pretty long time to be more widespread used IIRC. Mostly after the "Black Thorn" novels its mention more but I could be wrong there. Been quite some time I read the novels.

Anway I used infantrie a lot during my tabletop days and its hard to use them right. Putting them meaningfull into the game can be even harder.
Still I am all for it. Espacialy when time advances to introduce Elementals....those can be a pain in the behind

[LordNothing]

Nesutizale, on 07 June 2020 - 04:44 AM, said:

@Lordnothing
I don't think that Infantrie would need a big mix of weapons in a mechgame. Focus on the anti-mech armament. SRMs for mobile infantrie with either normal SRMs or Infernos. Then more entranched version with SL or MGs.

Molotivs: Well they wouldn't do any kind of damage to a mech as they don't burn hot enough BUT they could hinder the view. Imagne you beeing hit on the sensors or head. Night and Heat Vision would be useless and even normal vision would be hindered by flames or just the flickering of heat. That can be an interesting gameplay effect.

Civilians: I wouldn't include them. For one part legal reasons. I fear that someone will file a law suit if anything but military personal is involved. The other thing is...except for some rare cases most civilians in BT know when a mech comes to town you do one thing....run !
Even foot soldiers mostly shy away from faceing a mech on foot. Only the most desperate do it or when the story asks for it.
Anti mech tactics took a pretty long time to be more widespread used IIRC. Mostly after the "Black Thorn" novels its mention more but I could be wrong there. Been quite some time I read the novels.

Anway I used infantrie a lot during my tabletop days and its hard to use them right. Putting them meaningfull into the game can be even harder.
Still I am all for it. Espacialy when time advances to introduce Elementals....those can be a pain in the behind

you dont need the whole sarna list, those were just examples. maybe one or two of each weapon type, and each infantryman would probibly get to carry 2 weapons. civilians maybe just 1, heavy infantry might have 3. only reason to have more is if you can kit up your infantry. certainly better ground hazards than the ground clutter pgi seems to favor (i hate that stuff).

molotovs and handheld flamers would be more incontinence than damage, overloading your sinks, and yes sensors and vision disruption sounds like a good idea. but they wouldnt really do any damage at all to a mech, maybe other vehicles and infantry though.

they seem to be fine with blowing up civilian settlements. i mean even if you evacuated the city before hand, the resulting refugee crisis would no doubt kill a lot of people. given that the dropships they use can do about 3-5g, the amount of early warning you have is hours, maybe a day tops, this is not enough time to evacuate a city. mostly the civies and ground pounders will run, but given that mechs are faster than them, mostly they are going to be stuck sheltering in place, and when that happens you are going to have a few gung ho types shoving a rag into a bottle of high proof whiskey to chuck at the warhammer a few floors down ripping through their building's structure. desperate situations call for desperate measures.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 June 2020 - 05:54 AM.

[Nesutizale]

The point of cities not beeing able to evacuate fast enough is one of the reasons normaly you won't fight there. IIRC its even part of the Ares Convention that you should not fight in cities at all or if it can be prevented.

[LordNothing]

Nesutizale, on 07 June 2020 - 06:01 AM, said:

The point of cities not beeing able to evacuate fast enough is one of the reasons normaly you won't fight there. IIRC its even part of the Ares Convention that you should not fight in cities at all or if it can be prevented.

that makes more sense. they didn't exactly go with that in those mw5 demolition missions though. also urbanmechs.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 June 2020 - 06:18 AM.

[JediPanther]

People would just be like all the other things like cars or the golden statues that were in river city. Stop your mech dead and you just became the easiest enemy to shoot while you try and figure out why your mech isn't moving.

[Nesutizale]

LordNothing, on 07 June 2020 - 06:17 AM, said:

that makes more sense. they didn't exactly go with that in those mw5 demolition missions though. also urbanmechs.

Yes they didn't and I think that is for one because players asked for it and second...its just cool to stomp around
As for the lore and urbies and stuff....well war has this habbit of throwing good intentions out of the window.

JediPanther, on 07 June 2020 - 06:32 AM, said:

People would just be like all the other things like cars or the golden statues that were in river city. Stop your mech dead and you just became the easiest enemy to shoot while you try and figure out why your mech isn't moving.

Well that is more an technical issue and problem to solve then actualy a reason not to implement something that could enrich the gameplay, isn't it?

If done right people shouldn't stop a mech from walking past, over...through?...a person.

[YueFei]

Nesutizale, on 05 June 2020 - 11:46 AM, said:

While it was in the intro of MW3...could you actualy walk over people in MW3? I can not remember that beeing possible or maybe that was taken out because of censoring/age restrictions.
I think the stepping on that guy from the intro wasn't even in the german intro but only the english one.

In MW3 gameplay (not just cutscenes), you could definitely step on people. Heck, the way the legs were animated, if you were in mid-stride when your leg made contact with a human, that person would just splatter in gibblets.

[Davegt27]

Quote

Note: I'm not a sadist, I just enjoy using unique colour schemes to paint the terrain.

no your a sadist

[MW Waldorf Statler]

no with the engines in a serverbased game..most calculations for weapons and Mechs (each mech is with all his Parts like 11 People in other games with own Hitboxes) no Power for Infantrymodels, 64 Players or vehicles

[Kodyn]

Sure, it'd be cool, but it took PGI years to code a tree that could fall over...so I wouldn't expect much. Their newer maps also run worse than their old maps, even on dedicated gaming rigs, so apparently their ability to code things is getting worse. We get people running around, I'll be surprised if anyone ever sees 60+ FPS again.