21 replies to this topic

[V O L T R O N]

So the lances are always unorganized with or without a group in your drop. If a group drops now its even worse. You will have extremely slow mechs in alpha lance on the far left and assaults on the right. Which I admit it sometimes stops a nascar, but sometimes gets them killed, but even without groups, the organization of the lances isnt always right.

The easiest way to fix the lances is to organize the drop by SPEED, and REGARDLESS if there is a group in the drop. If the UNIT or Group want to be in the same lance. They can take control and make it so.

My suggestion would be the fast lance always starts off on the far left furthest from NASCAR, and Slow mechs in the middle so they are not prompted to NASCAR.

You will naturally be next to the person going your speed anyway... #lance bonuses

Edited by V O L T R O N, 15 June 2020 - 05:44 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Could it be that simple..? I can't find anything wrong with your suggestion.. even if I drop in a group and I go 120+kph.. i'm not going to be sticking by my slow assault or heavy lancemate.. so ya, adjusting groups by speed would solve alot of the problems and lances would stay together more often, as they should.

[JediPanther]

Nothing wrong with spawns except the slowest lance gets put on the farthest spawn from dom point. Switch it with the fastest position and its fixed.

[Captain Caveman DE]

V O L T R O N, on 15 June 2020 - 05:31 AM, said:

So the lances are always unorganized with or without a group in your drop. If a group drops now its even worse. You will have extremely slow mechs in alpha lance on the far left and assaults on the right. Which I admit it sometimes stops a nascar, but sometimes gets them killed, but even without groups, the organization of the lances isnt always right.

The easiest way to fix the lances is to organize the drop by SPEED, and REGARDLESS if there is a group in the drop. If the UNIT or Group want to be in the same lance. They can take control and make it so.

My suggestion would be the fast lance always starts off on the far left furthest from NASCAR, and Slow mechs in the middle so they are not prompted to NASCAR.

You will naturally be next to the person going your speed anyway... #lance bonuses

DAEDALOS513, on 15 June 2020 - 11:05 AM, said:

Could it be that simple..? I can't find anything wrong with your suggestion.. even if I drop in a group and I go 120+kph.. i'm not going to be sticking by my slow assault or heavy lancemate.. so ya, adjusting groups by speed would solve alot of the problems and lances would stay together more often, as they should.

sounds like a good and simple solution
-which are 2 of the many reasons they'll never do it

but good to see you 2 are still alive and kickin' in mwo. fw and scouting with OR against you was always fun
Cheers gents!

[DAEDALOS513]

JediPanther, on 15 June 2020 - 04:16 PM, said:

Nothing wrong with spawns except the slowest lance gets put on the farthest spawn from dom point. Switch it with the fastest position and its fixed.

That's part of the solution and Volt already suggested a good spawn point for the slow lance.. another problem is lances are supposed to stick together.. that's the whole point of a lance. Well this isn't happening because lances aren't organized by speed.. defeating the purpose of a lance.

[Willard Phule]

Not sure how you're supposed to make that work with the new MM mechanic.

The way it's set up now is that if there's only one premade group, the team they're placed on also gets the majority of assaults. Evidently, there's a certain amount of guaranteed stomps that it has to produce.

[V O L T R O N]

Willard Phule, on 17 June 2020 - 05:18 AM, said:

Not sure how you're supposed to make that work with the new MM mechanic.

The way it's set up now is that if there's only one premade group, the team they're placed on also gets the majority of assaults. Evidently, there's a certain amount of guaranteed stomps that it has to produce.

It would override whatever script is in place.

I havent witnessed anymore or less stomps throughout my time playing on MWO because of groups, no groups, or anything. Premade, large groups vs no premade, those days were stomps.

[Willard Phule]

V O L T R O N, on 17 June 2020 - 05:59 AM, said:

It would override whatever script is in place.

I havent witnessed anymore or less stomps throughout my time playing on MWO because of groups, no groups, or anything. Premade, large groups vs no premade, those days were stomps.

And therein lies the problem. Unless they let you, or someone else that's competent, into the coding....it probably isn't going to happen. You have to keep in mind that all coding is limited to the people that couldn't figure out matchmaking in the first place.

[DAEDALOS513]

Willard Phule, on 17 June 2020 - 12:09 PM, said:

And therein lies the problem. Unless they let you, or someone else that's competent, into the coding....it probably isn't going to happen. You have to keep in mind that all coding is limited to the people that couldn't figure out matchmaking in the first place.

How did they code the new soup queue then? How are they currently tweaking and coding mm settings?

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 17 June 2020 - 01:38 PM.

[Brauer]

V O L T R O N, on 17 June 2020 - 05:59 AM, said:

It would override whatever script is in place.

I havent witnessed anymore or less stomps throughout my time playing on MWO because of groups, no groups, or anything. Premade, large groups vs no premade, those days were stomps.

You don't see more stomps when grouping up with players like Daed and Colo than when you're playing solo? Playing in groups I see almost exclusively stomps...the idea that things haven't changed at all is far-fetched imo.

[V O L T R O N]

Brauer, on 17 June 2020 - 02:53 PM, said:

You don't see more stomps when grouping up with players like Daed and Colo than when you're playing solo? Playing in groups I see almost exclusively stomps...the idea that things haven't changed at all is far-fetched imo.

Daed and I dont run meta, quite the opposite, and when im by myself I try way harder. So no, not really at all. Matches are pretty balanced for me. If I so choose ...

I had 3 games back to back to back yesterday where it was 12-10... Not sure if that has ever happened to me before.

Edited by V O L T R O N, 18 June 2020 - 03:36 AM.

[Willard Phule]

DAEDALOS513, on 17 June 2020 - 01:38 PM, said:

How did they code the new soup queue then? How are they currently tweaking and coding mm settings?

Beyond allowing premades, you got me. It would appear that they had to get rid of weight class matching altogether to allow that to happen. I can't think of another explanation where the MM puts the premade on a team and then makes sure they have all the assaults as well.

Calling it "coding" is giving it more credit than it deserves.

[Monkey Lover]

Random locations would be fun. Sure it might suck a few times but would be worth it.

[DAEDALOS513]

Monkey Lover, on 20 June 2020 - 02:11 PM, said:

Random locations would be fun. Sure it might suck a few times but would be worth it.

Yes yes and yes! As long as lances were still organized by speed.. hell yes! It would bring a fresh new perspective to maps.. it would force lance mates to stick together because the enemy could appear at any turn.. thus, there would be mini lance-battles throughout the map utilizing 'new' areas of the map instead of just the center.. man I've been calling for this change for ages..

..this change, as well as random domination circle locations or even a moving circle..

[Lanzman]

Y'all know if you take company command you can rearrange who's in which lance, right? I do it sometimes, like when a Dire Whale is in Alpha Lance while two Commandos and a Flea are in Charlie . . .

[R Valentine]

Lanzman, on 22 June 2020 - 06:08 AM, said:

Y'all know if you take company command you can rearrange who's in which lance, right? I do it sometimes, like when a Dire Whale is in Alpha Lance while two Commandos and a Flea are in Charlie . . .

That doesn't alter your spawns, which is determined before you even have the ability to take company command. It only changes where you respawn in FP.

[Black Caiman]

Brauer, on 17 June 2020 - 02:53 PM, said:

You don't see more stomps when grouping up with players like Daed and Colo than when you're playing solo? Playing in groups I see almost exclusively stomps...the idea that things haven't changed at all is far-fetched imo.

I think its "far-fetched" when youre running in some insane super group, but even running in just a good group winning isn't some sort of guarantee. I generally run with people that are all in the 90th percentile and up, and yes we win more than we lose, but its not like we're winning 90% of our games. Why? Because we run into other groups of similar composition. Also like Voltron mentioned we aren't always running a bunch of meta. Weve played DAED and Voltron plenty of times, along with groups from 228, JGX, GOON, etc, etc, and the odd super group. Youre going to lose to those guys some. So yes if you have 4 top 1%ers then you probably will roll over people at an insane clip. If that's boring to you then perhaps don't run with those people all the time, and don't run meta?

As far as the drop zones go I think youve hit on the right idea. Form the lances based on speed, and randomize where you get dumped at. Yes, the assaults will get dumped in crappy spots sometimes, but maybe that means youll have to help cover each other, or even perhaps go a different way then your used to. This could lead to fights on alternative parts of the map which is always a good time! Oh and please move the domination circles on occasion!

Edited by Black Caiman, 22 June 2020 - 12:45 PM.

[Brauer]

Black Caiman, on 22 June 2020 - 12:42 PM, said:

I think its "far-fetched" when youre running in some insane super group, but even running in just a good group winning isn't some sort of guarantee. I generally run with people that are all in the 90th percentile and up, and yes we win more than we lose, but its not like we're winning 90% of our games. Why? Because we run into other groups of similar composition. Also like Voltron mentioned we aren't always running a bunch of meta. Weve played DAED and Voltron plenty of times, along with groups from 228, JGX, GOON, etc, etc, and the odd super group. Youre going to lose to those guys some. So yes if you have 4 top 1%ers then you probably will roll over people at an insane clip. If that's boring to you then perhaps don't run with those people all the time, and don't run meta?

As far as the drop zones go I think youve hit on the right idea. Form the lances based on speed, and randomize where you get dumped at. Yes, the assaults will get dumped in crappy spots sometimes, but maybe that means youll have to help cover each other, or even perhaps go a different way then your used to. This could lead to fights on alternative parts of the map which is always a good time! Oh and please move the domination circles on occasion!

I didn't say that I found rolling the queue boring, I have said in other threads that it is the logical conclusion of including groups in QP with essentially no way to balance groups. The meta of the current queue is to bring a group of four decent to very good players and roll through everything. It doesn't much matter what you bring, though camping power positions is likely the overall strongest strat.

My opposition to the mashed together mess of a queue that we have now, as I have stated a number of times elsewhere, is that I used to enjoy dropping solo and would drop a fair bit that way. Now if I drop solo I am both accepting that whatever the groups in my matches want to do will have an out-sized impact on my experience, and I am putting myself at a disadvantage from the get go because I am not in a group.

I would much rather we had a solo-friendly mode like the old quick play, even if it had plenty of it's own issues, than the mess we have right now.

Regarding drop zones, I don't think adding spawn RNG is the answer. I'd love to see alternative domination circle locations or other changes like that, but I think they should be thought through rather than quick and dirty RNG for varieties sake. If the Domination circle, for example, is randomly placed (even with some constraints), you're likely to see some horridly unbalanced placements, particularly with how the maps are designed. Another solution would be to figure out maybe two or three alternative domination locations that have at least some semblance of balance.

[DAEDALOS513]

Brauer, on 22 June 2020 - 01:03 PM, said:

Regarding drop zones, I don't think adding spawn RNG is the answer. I'd love to see alternative domination circle locations or other changes like that, but I think they should be thought through rather than quick and dirty RNG for varieties sake. If the Domination circle, for example, is randomly placed (even with some constraints), you're likely to see some horridly unbalanced placements, particularly with how the maps are designed. Another solution would be to figure out maybe two or three alternative domination locations that have at least some semblance of balance.

On the contrary adding RNG drop zones will add the exact spice this game needs.. you know what fair and balanced games get you? We all end up at the exact same time in the exact same spot in the center of every map.. lather, rince, repeat.. is this your idea of fun? Why not spice things up once in a while with RNG spawns.. they will add a real thrill and dare I say realism to the game; IMMERSION Is, something people have been calling for since this game came out.. you shouldn't be afraid of a little imbalance where you have to use your wits and teamwork to survive! Sometimes I think you really underestimate yourself Brau.. you're an MJ ffs, don't be afraid of a little challenge.

Even for domination mode.. i would gladly accept an unbalanced circle once in a while because for one, it would be a completely new gaming experience each time.. a small sacrifice for a huge boon...and secondly, a disadvantaged spawn one match could become as easily an advantageous one.. it all depends on you and your team-mates loadouts.. (the same goes for RNG spawn points in qp)

Besides ppl could still vote for these modes during map selection.. if they aren't popular, you will hardly see them.. like incursion.. these changes need to be implemented yesterday!

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 24 June 2020 - 12:13 PM.

[V O L T R O N]

I hope they look at the thread so they can fix these drops. The groups are really messing up the organization.