15 replies to this topic

[TheCallandor]

Would it be better if we could group in teams of 6?

[martian]

TheCallandor, on 15 July 2020 - 01:41 AM, said:

Would it be better if we could group in teams of 6?

Are you serious?

[Snowhawk]

I think it's better if one Team can be a 12 man Group and the matchmacker tries to put 12 random Players into the other side….

[Bud Crue]

martian, on 15 July 2020 - 02:09 AM, said:

Are you serious?

Why not? People are doing it now, though it's admittedly seemingly a roll of the MM's dice.

I had thought it was impossible for two 3-mans to end up on the same team, and more often than not when me and mine are dropping that way, we do end up fighting each other or ending up in different matches, but on rare occasions we have ended up on the same team. I've seen other groups of greater than 6 on the same team as well. I assume they are managing this by syncing with groups of two and just getting lucky, but I don't know. In my opinion they either need a hard fix to all this, or and this is just an idea here, they could give us back 8-man group queue...and add an opt in function for solo players like many of us have proposed over the years; just a thought. In the mean time, 6-mans (or more) are already possible, though it is difficult/rare that it happens.

[Willard Phule]

TheCallandor, on 15 July 2020 - 01:41 AM, said:

Would it be better if we could group in teams of 6?

Even better would be teams of 12. Why bother to hide the fact that putting groups and solos together was designed to create anything but a stomp?

[martian]

Bud Crue, on 15 July 2020 - 03:14 AM, said:

Why not? People are doing it now, though it's admittedly seemingly a roll of the MM's dice.

Because you would be creating Group Queue Mk. 2:

• At first you drive away remaining casual players and cadets. If they can't handle well-coordinated 4-man group, handling coordinated 6-man premades would be even more futile.
  
• After that stronger premade groups drive away weaker or smaller premade groups.
  
• You are going to end up with the empty Queue in the midst of the empty MWO wondering: Why can not we find anybody we could farm?

... Exactly what has happened in the original Group Queue.

Bud Crue, on 15 July 2020 - 03:14 AM, said:

I had thought it was impossible for two 3-mans to end up on the same team, and more often than not when me and mine are dropping that way, we do end up fighting each other or ending up in different matches, but on rare occasions we have ended up on the same team. I've seen other groups of greater than 6 on the same team as well. I assume they are managing this by syncing with groups of two and just getting lucky, but I don't know.

Considering the low number of MWO players, I think it is possible.

Bud Crue, on 15 July 2020 - 03:14 AM, said:

In my opinion they either need a hard fix to all this, or and this is just an idea here, they could give us back 8-man group queue...and add an opt in function for solo players like many of us have proposed over the years; just a thought. In the mean time, 6-mans (or more) are already possible, though it is difficult/rare that it happens.

Negative.

Russ Bullock said it clearly: "One queue from now on, so pre-made groups can farm casual solo players."

[Brauer]

TheCallandor, on 15 July 2020 - 01:41 AM, said:

Would it be better if we could group in teams of 6?

Play FW if you want that.

Adding groups to quick play has wrecked any semblance of skill and weight class balance between teams. No need to further degrade the matchmaker by allowing even larger groups to farm the queue (or completely throw matches by packing a team with 6 incompetent players).

[Knight Captain Morgan]

Brauer, on 15 July 2020 - 05:07 AM, said:

Play FW if you want that.

Adding groups to quick play has wrecked any semblance of skill and weight class balance between teams. No need to further degrade the matchmaker by allowing even larger groups to farm the queue (or completely throw matches by packing a team with 6 incompetent players).

faction war gives the other side larger groups too, and that’s not the type of match the premades are looking for.

[Willard Phule]

Knight Captain Morgan, on 15 July 2020 - 05:23 AM, said:

faction war gives the other side larger groups too, and that’s not the type of match the premades are looking for.

No, they're looking for "target practice" among the Cadets and solos, which is apparently what PGI wants as well.

[Vyx]

Why not just let people group up and play with their friends?

Whining that it will "be a stomp" is weak. Just play and do your best. You cannot guarantee a balanced game with random participants - ever. Fight hard.

However, how about this? When a group is made of over 4 players, a note is highlighted that states "Groups of over 4 players are guaranteed to be in the same match, but members may not all be on the same side."

This way, players can team up with their friends and drop simultaneously, but the matchmaker may use them on either side -- still fun, but with a nod to "non-stompiness".

Edited by Vyx, 15 July 2020 - 06:12 AM.

[GARION26]

You guys know the primary matchmaker criteria is group vs non group.
If there is a group of 4 on one side the matchmaker tries hard to put a group of 4 or two groups of 3+2 on the other side.

I don't know how you can argue groups are causing stomps when by default the system is trying to be sure if there is a group on one side there is also one on the other.

Groups of Tier 1 players certainly can have a big impact on the game but a group of Tier 5 players has a big impact in the opposite direction. It's not grouping itself it's who is in the group. The way to fix that is potentially to put PSR above group vs non group in the matchmaking algorithm.

[OneTeamPlayer]

Vyx, on 15 July 2020 - 06:02 AM, said:

Why not just let people group up and play with their friends?

Whining that it will "be a stomp" is weak. Just play and do your best. You cannot guarantee a balanced game with random participants - ever. Fight hard.

However, how about this? When a group is made of over 4 players, a note is highlighted that states "Groups of over 4 players are guaranteed to be in the same match, but members may not all be on the same side."

This way, players can team up with their friends and drop simultaneously, but the matchmaker may use them on either side -- still fun, but with a nod to "non-stompiness".

Actually balanced games were exactly what we had before group queue merge and while there were stomps on occasion it wasn't to the point where it was the main topic every single day for weeks on end.

Hey let's compromise how about we create a specific place for groups to play in groups, but only against other groups. We can call that group queue.

Then let's create a place when solos can play against other solos exclusively, we'll call that solo queue. Never shall the two queues meet and everyone can be happy.

If you want to talk about whining, let's talk about how subpar groups whined until they were allowed in solo queue because they couldn't hack it in group queue, then they found that the same groups who stomped them in group queue followed them to the new queue and quit or found that they could barely hold their own against randomized solo players and also quit.

Instead of trying to gaslight players for wanting a literal standard of video games (a place to play against other individual opponents) if you really want competition or to tell anyone to get good you should be 100% behind group queues where the playing field is level and groups can "get good" enough to hold their own in drops.

Oh that's right, all these "get good" groups weren't playing in group queue cause they got stomped out and instead of "getting good" they just decided to pollute a different pool.

Anyone arguing for a group versus PUGs is hilarious in that anyone from any game can see that it's a giant neon sign that says "I am not a terribly good player and i want a set of advantages that i can exploit to make up for a lack of personal ability". Can you imagine college basketball teams claiming they should be able to play against random pick-up-game groups near exclusively? No, cause we'd rightfully call them lame chumps.

Sad to watch, you hate to see it.

[Sergeant Destroy]

OneTeamPlayer, on 15 July 2020 - 06:37 AM, said:

Actually balanced games were exactly what we had before group queue merge and while there were stomps on occasion it wasn't to the point where it was the main topic every single day for weeks on end.

Before the merge it was exactly the same, with the same whinging from the same people that are obsessed with the idea of a magical matchmaker making up for their inability to score some points. It`s just the excuse for their shittiness that has changed.

[Brauer]

Knight Captain Morgan, on 15 July 2020 - 05:23 AM, said:

faction war gives the other side larger groups too, and that’s not the type of match the premades are looking for.

I drop in a "premade" all the time and I've been against the merge since day 1. I'm sure there are groups who just wanted to rofl-stomp, but the majority of the high skill players who have weighed in have been against the queue merge.

[OneTeamPlayer]

Sergeant Destroy, on 15 July 2020 - 08:04 AM, said:

Before the merge it was exactly the same, with the same whinging from the same people that are obsessed with the idea of a magical matchmaker making up for their inability to score some points. It`s just the excuse for their shittiness that has changed.

Pre-merge and post-merge queues look nothing like each other and post-merge new PSR queue looks worse than either of them.

Inarguable fact, honestly.

[JediPanther]

As horrible as matches were yesterday with 4 mans doing whatever,which I won't name those ones in units, I'm sure just adding tww more mechs to wonder around letting the solos go die first would really make those non grouped players want to keep playing the game. As if the game isn't losing players fast enough that pgi had to merge all the tin cans into a swiss cheese holed bucket. DONT WORRY BOUT IT JUST KEEP PLAYING....BUT WHY??? I have better games that are fun to play.