58 replies to this topic

[Jman5]

Brauer, on 24 August 2020 - 02:05 PM, said:

I dunno, anytime I run a quad lbx10 Sleipnir I get heat capped eventually, it takes a while, but even cool-running builds if properly built and played well will generally end up heat-capped eventually and LAMS just make it happen that much faster.

If heat is a frequent enough issue for you on a quad LB10X build than that would not be a good candidate for a LAMS.

But let's say you really really want to play a Spider 5K (don't ask me why). I don't think this would be a terrible candidate for swapping in an LAMS.

https://mech.nav-alp...c81dc058_SDR-5K

[VonBruinwald]

Jman5, on 24 August 2020 - 02:55 PM, said:

But let's say you really really want to play a Spider 5K (don't ask me why). I don't think this would be a terrible candidate for swapping in an LAMS.

https://mech.nav-alp...c81dc058_SDR-5K

Personally, I would have gone with Heavy-Gauss-Hunchie.

[Brauer]

Yiryi-Sa, on 24 August 2020 - 02:17 PM, said:

And no one was claiming that LAMS improves a build.

The only thing I've stated here is that LAMS benefits from some of the quirks and skill tree nodes, where by someone stated they didn't think it did.

The only other thing that I'm stating is that LAMS is not as big of a detractor as claimed.

I mean it's just about the worst thing you can put on a mech, up there with the command console and Light Gauss. Why spend tonnage, slots, and heat on something that's a net negative?

[Brauer]

VonBruinwald, on 24 August 2020 - 03:52 PM, said:

Personally, I would have gone with Heavy-Gauss-Hunchie.

Given how tight that mech is on tonnage I'd think either slapping an erml or ml in the head or simply putting more ammo on it would be far preferable to wasting a ton and a half on LAMS.

[Yiryi-Sa]

Brauer, on 24 August 2020 - 05:02 PM, said:

I mean it's just about the worst thing you can put on a mech... Why spend tonnage, slots, and heat on something that's a net negative?

It hasn't been a net negative for me ever since I've started using it; my experience hasn't been this. Its a serviceable tool in my experience.

[Kubernetes]

LAMS is basically a test.

Are you dumber than a pallet of bricks? If yes, equip LAMS. Otherwise, no.

VonBruinwald, on 24 August 2020 - 01:45 AM, said:

Heat as a resource is infinite

Exactly, which is why you should never equip extra DHS. Why improve the rate of cooling when cumulative cooling is infinite anyway? Just add more lasers and ERPPCs and wait a bit longer.

Edited by Kubernetes, 25 August 2020 - 10:20 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Kubernetes, on 25 August 2020 - 10:15 AM, said:

Exactly, which is why you should never equip extra DHS.  Why improve the rate of cooling when cumulative cooling is infinite anyway?  Just add more lasers and ERPPCs and wait a bit longer.

Ironically that is how a lot of alpha builds work. Many of them could sacrifice a medium laser for an extra sink and improve their DPS but choose not to do so in the name of Alpha.

[Brauer]

VonBruinwald, on 25 August 2020 - 11:29 AM, said:

Ironically that is how a lot of alpha builds work. Many of them could sacrifice a medium laser for an extra sink and improve their DPS but choose not to do so in the name of Alpha.

Hopefully you realize that you were being called out on claiming heat is an infinite resource. At the most extreme end of things every mech has a maximum amount of heat per 15 minutes. In a game that can devolve into a dps race (with heat as a limiter) it is severely misguided to claim heat is infinite.

[Kubernetes]

Brauer, on 25 August 2020 - 11:40 AM, said:

Hopefully you realize that you were being called out on claiming heat is an infinite resource. At the most extreme end of things every mech has a maximum amount of heat per 15 minutes. In a game that can devolve into a dps race (with heat as a limiter) it is severely misguided to claim heat is infinite.

This dude probably brags about getting unlimited data on his 56k modem. "It's an infinite resource!"

[VonBruinwald]

Brauer, on 25 August 2020 - 11:40 AM, said:

Hopefully you realize that you were being called out on claiming heat is an infinite resource. At the most extreme end of things every mech has a maximum amount of heat per 15 minutes. In a game that can devolve into a dps race (with heat as a limiter) it is severely misguided to claim heat is infinite.

I'm aware he was being melodramatic, even though he unintentionally re-enforced my point. I took it in the spirit of banter.

You are right in that there is limit to the heat that can be used within a time frame but that is a result of the time frame and not a function of the heat mechanics. Or to twist it another way (and please, take it in the spirit of banter):

[Brauer]

VonBruinwald, on 23 August 2020 - 05:36 PM, said:

AMS uses ammo, once it runs out you're carrying dead weight. Heat is an infinite resource, ammo is not.

My point is that this comment is incredibly misleading. Just because, theoretically, given an infinite amount of time you could utilize an infinite amount of heat does not make that a valid point to discuss given the context of an MWO match.

Edited by Brauer, 25 August 2020 - 01:56 PM.

[VonBruinwald]

Brauer, on 25 August 2020 - 01:56 PM, said:

My point is that this comment is incredibly misleading. Just because, theoretically, given an infinite amount of time you could utilize an infinite amount of heat does not make that a valid point to discuss given the context of an MWO match.

Well we gotta go theoretical, the alternative is we start crunching numbers:

Run a set build over x matches, swap AMS+1 ton for LAMS and repeat, log missiles shot down in each instance.

Then compare the average damage dealt vs. average missiles shot down.


Any ideas how this can be achieved in the academy? Other players are problems.

[Brauer]

VonBruinwald, on 25 August 2020 - 03:25 PM, said:

Well we gotta go theoretical, the alternative is we start crunching numbers:

Run a set build over x matches, swap AMS+1 ton for LAMS and repeat, log missiles shot down in each instance.

Then compare the average damage dealt vs. average missiles shot down.


Any ideas how this can be achieved in the academy? Other players are problems.

OR one can simply understand the game's metas and mechanics.

[VonBruinwald]

Brauer, on 25 August 2020 - 03:34 PM, said:

OR one can simply understand the game's metas and mechanics.

So no AMS...

Seems we were both wrong

[Brauer]

VonBruinwald, on 25 August 2020 - 03:41 PM, said:

So no AMS...

Seems we were both wrong

I was saying no AMS from the beginning and qualifying that if you MUST run ams generally 1ams plus a ton of ammo (or a half ton even) is best.

[OmniFail]

Brauer, on 25 August 2020 - 01:56 PM, said:

My point is that this comment is incredibly misleading. Just because, theoretically, given an infinite amount of time you could utilize an infinite amount of heat does not make that a valid point to discuss given the context of an MWO match.

Yes, but i hypothesize that it would still be an infinite amount of zero skill to use.

[Yiryi-Sa]

Kubernetes, on 25 August 2020 - 10:15 AM, said:

Are you dumber than a pallet of bricks? If yes, equip LAMS.

That's a welcoming sentiment.

[Kubernetes]

Harsh, but fundamentally true. There are very few builds that are completely heat neutral with just the base engine heat sinks. For everything else, heat is important, and equipping LAMS is self-crippling. Even the idea of micro-managing its use is ridiculous. Turning off LAMS won't immediately dissipate all the heat you've built up. If you like the idea of AMS or need to complete an event challenge, just use regular AMS and a ton of ammo. For those very few builds that can handle the heat (like a pure gauss build), go for it, but IMO you're almost always better off with some secondary weapons or a bigger/safer engine.

[Krovakon]

I run a corsair-7A with 3x AMS 1x LAMS because the 1x LAMS is more tonnage efficient in regards to ammo. What I mean by this is that replacing the LAMS with an AMS + 1 ton of AMS ammo would result in me having less AMS ammo overall because LAMS get more efficient the more regular AMS and AMS ammo you have. It's also heat negative while active and heat only becomes an issue if I alpha the medlum lasers multiple times in a single engagement while firing the RAC/2's the entire time. Replacing the LAMS with an AMS + 1 ton of ammo would at best enable 1 more quad Medium laser alpha in a prolonged engagement and I rarely find myself in those situations. I'd rather have what is effectively an extra ton of AMS ammo with the LAMS which will also still work even if the others run dry.

I can't think of any other mech where having a LAMS is better than an AMS+1 ton of ammo though. Maybe the Piranha that boats AMS because C-LAMS are half a ton lighter and have the mobility to deal with the massive heat build-up but yeah, I'm drawing a blank on any other situation where LAMS is superior other than the above scenario with the corsair or something that is ice cold due to gauss and literally cannot heat cap itself while also having extra tonnage to throw around that can't be thrown into ammo because you already have too much and you can't get a bigger engine because you're maxed or it's an omni-mech.