29 replies to this topic

[Blind Squirrel]

I've been playing MWO since 2016. I have more than 18,000 games under my belt. I've spent more money on this game than I'll ever admit. Having recently returned to the game after a 7 month hiatus, I'm about to cross into Tier 1. I'm not part of any unit, nor do I plan to be. I only play solo in Quick Play.

The changes made today have severely curtailed the number of games a Dirty Casual, like me, can play in our allotted "entertainment time slot". Some rough tracking/math indicates only getting in 20 games where I used to play 30. That's 33% less games.

My goal with MWO is simple: smash stompy robots against other stompy robots. And I like Battletech, so there's that. I have no interest in PSR, KDR, win/losses, or any of the other stats.I'm only interested in the number of games played.

The issue is apparently with the Try Hards who can't get games in the FOUR game modes specifically for them (Comp Play, Faction Play, Solaris, and the Group Queue), so they've convinced PGI to "fix" Quick Play so they can have "more competitive" games.

It has always been easy to get a game in Quick Play, hence the "Quick" in Quick Play. The fact that players can't get games in the other four game modes should tell you where your actual player base is - the Dirty Casuals like me. If you don't provide a mode for us, Quick Play will soon go the way of Faction Play.

Now, I'm not one to throw down a problem and walk away; I always try to provide a solution. Give all players an option to choose to be competitive or not. Just add a simple checkbox in the UI that can only be changed once each 30 days. If you want to be competitive, check the box to play with other competitive people and have your PSR go up/down based on your skill and fortune. If you don't care about being competitive, uncheck the box and have fun playing - no PSR and no groups.

The other option if for all of the Dirty Casuals to unite, play all games with 100 ton mechs, go to random grid squares, and have jiggly dance-offs until the OPFOR joins us or destroys us. How long would it take for the Try Hards to begin complaininig about several hundred tons of competition-ruining jiggliness in every match?

[John Bronco]

More buckets will not solve anything in 2020.

Additionally the fact that you have moved up to T1 in short order shows you are more than just a "filthy casual" and probably should continue playing in that tier with your peers.

It may have been a bit too soon to restrict the valves, but as more people play and PSR stratifies it should get better over time.

[That Mech]

I think you dropped this.

/s

[thievingmagpi]

Blind Squirrel, on 15 July 2020 - 09:46 PM, said:

The issue is apparently with the Try Hards who can't get games in the FOUR game modes specifically for them (Comp Play,

When is comp play running?

You tell me.

Blind Squirrel, on 15 July 2020 - 09:46 PM, said:

Faction Play,

Which is barely alive.

Blind Squirrel, on 15 July 2020 - 09:46 PM, said:

Solaris,

Solaris was never made "for tryhards" and "Try hards" certainly didn't ask for or want it.

Blind Squirrel, on 15 July 2020 - 09:46 PM, said:

and the Group Queue),

Group Queue does not exist.

Blind Squirrel, on 15 July 2020 - 09:46 PM, said:

so they've convinced PGI to "fix" Quick Play so they can have "more competitive" games.

Meaning Try Hards can play with Try Hards and I Play Just For Funs can play with I Play Just For Funs. That's the goal of a matchmaker.

[General Solo]

I hear ya OP, solo queue just ain't the same.

When I have enough I go play MW5 with mods to lose myself for a few hours in some mech goodness.

That battle tech game is another option for a mech fix that isn't MWO.

[Hellbringer]

Tier 1 is a curse now. Games take over 10+ mins to search and locate. Better off waiting for FP if I want to wait 10 minutes. Nothing quick about this.

[Bud Crue]

Blind Squirrel, on 15 July 2020 - 09:46 PM, said:

The issue is apparently with the Try Hards who can't get games in the FOUR game modes specifically for them (Comp Play, Faction Play, Solaris, and the Group Queue), so they've convinced PGI to "fix" Quick Play so they can have "more competitive" games.

Who are these Try Hards, and what was the "fix" they proposed?

[Marquis De Lafayette]

My impressions on last night: Some waits were ok and some waits were long (especially as the night wore on). However all the games (close to 10) I played were fun match ups and some involved some real heavyweights (EMP, Jgx) on opposite sides. There were 2 stomps (a 12-2 and a 12-1) in the games I played, but the rest were competitive and 2 were nail biters. So, yeah the waits were probably too long for most players (as not enough people are out of tier 3 yet), but the matches that happened (and I was in) were as fun as I have seen in years.

As far as solutions to the wait. If they could make tier 1 and tier 2 play only together....as well as tier 4 and 5 you could probably cut down on the waits for the tier 1 and tier 5 players. Tier 3 is the most populated so they shouldn’t need other tiers to make matches. Pulling tier 2’s down to help make matches with tier 3’s just crushes the wait times for tier 1’s (I imagine the same is true at the bottom tiers as well). Not sure if they could change the code to that, but if they could it would probably help.

[R Valentine]

I don't know what forums you've been watching, but the comp community was the most outspoken opponents of the merged queues. It's the "filthy casuals" that wanted to be able to drop in solo queue in groups. "One coordinated lance" won't make a difference, they said. Well, even those without a brain knew that was a lie. Just one comp player on a team makes a difference. 4 is just absurd. The only balancing factor you can hope for is that both teams have a high skill, premade 4 man or neither team does, but that's leaving your fate in the hands of a match making system no one trusts. The casuals wanted this change, however, not the competitive "try hards". Comp players were happy to give 8v8 a go in the new group queue, but PGI pulled that one right from under everyone and instead gave us soup Q, which most of us hate.

[OneTeamPlayer]

Soup queue is the worst of all worlds and is like a Rube Goldberg machine specializing in the production of unfiltered animosity between player groups (solo/group, competitive/casual, cadets/everyone - well more pity on that one).

That this "problem" could have been fixed by re-separating the queues long ago, yet that option is not even being considered while player discontentment is through the roof is entirely disappointing.

[Bigbacon]

Kiran Yagami, on 16 July 2020 - 05:22 AM, said:

I don't know what forums you've been watching, but the comp community was the most outspoken opponents of the merged queues. It's the "filthy casuals" that wanted to be able to drop in solo queue in groups. "One coordinated lance" won't make a difference, they said. Well, even those without a brain knew that was a lie. Just one comp player on a team makes a difference. 4 is just absurd. The only balancing factor you can hope for is that both teams have a high skill, premade 4 man or neither team does, but that's leaving your fate in the hands of a match making system no one trusts. The casuals wanted this change, however, not the competitive "try hards". Comp players were happy to give 8v8 a go in the new group queue, but PGI pulled that one right from under everyone and instead gave us soup Q, which most of us hate.

that and the group killing the weight of the teams. its amazing having say 1 assault on your team and 7 on the other because a 4 man group dropped. i don't even bother playing the round anymore if I see groups of 3+ on the other side.

[Blind Squirrel]

thievingmagpi, on 15 July 2020 - 10:20 PM, said:

Meaning Try Hards can play with Try Hards and I Play Just For Funs can play with I Play Just For Funs. That's the goal of a matchmaker.

This is exactly what I'm trying to say. When you mix competitive players with non-competitive, the PSRs of the competitive players will suffer (most likely). Just give us an option to be competitive or not.

[Blind Squirrel]

BlaizerP, on 15 July 2020 - 10:02 PM, said:

Additionally the fact that you have moved up to T1 in short order shows you are more than just a "filthy casual" and probably should continue playing in that tier with your peers.

I'm definitely a casual player regardless of what my PSR says. Gaining PSR is easy no matter what formula you use. I just run around in my Fafnirs shooting things and my PSR goes up. I often don't bother with game objectives and set my own (ex: only shooting legs, only going for head shots, doing top damage with 0 kills, doing bottom damage with the most kills, or standing on all 5 Polar Highlands' Conquest points with my Fafnir).

[OneTeamPlayer]

Blind Squirrel, on 16 July 2020 - 07:19 AM, said:

This is exactly what I'm trying to say. When you mix competitive players with non-competitive, the PSRs of the competitive players will suffer (most likely). Just give us an option to be competitive or not.

If you give people the option to be non-competitive the competitive people will eventually find themselves in an empty queue then untick competitive and start the same process over again in the non-competitive queue.

The split needs to be Solo With tiers and Group queue 8v8 without tiers.

[Blind Squirrel]

OZHomerOZ, on 16 July 2020 - 02:44 AM, said:

I hear ya OP, solo queue just ain't the same.

When I have enough I go play MW5 with mods to lose myself for a few hours in some mech goodness.

That battle tech game is another option for a mech fix that isn't MWO.

I have completed both the HBS Battletech game and MW5 multiple times. MW5 was the reason for my hiatus from MWO. I've found MW5 to be too easy; I finished a game only fielding a HBK and one mission-appropriate mech. I've even played defend missions with a single mech. As for Battletech, it really has to be played with the Roguetech mods - but again, it's still easy and the complexity slows down the games. Which is why I came back to MWO - simple, robot smashing fun.

[Blind Squirrel]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 16 July 2020 - 05:12 AM, said:

My impressions on last night: Some waits were ok and some waits were long (especially as the night wore on). However all the games (close to 10) I played were fun match ups and some involved some real heavyweights (EMP, Jgx) on opposite sides. There were 2 stomps (a 12-2 and a 12-1) in the games I played, but the rest were competitive and 2 were nail biters. So, yeah the waits were probably too long for most players (as not enough people are out of tier 3 yet), but the matches that happened (and I was in) were as fun as I have seen in years.

As far as solutions to the wait. If they could make tier 1 and tier 2 play only together....as well as tier 4 and 5 you could probably cut down on the waits for the tier 1 and tier 5 players. Tier 3 is the most populated so they shouldn’t need other tiers to make matches. Pulling tier 2’s down to help make matches with tier 3’s just crushes the wait times for tier 1’s (I imagine the same is true at the bottom tiers as well). Not sure if they could change the code to that, but if they could it would probably help.

Yes, wait times were too long. That reduction in "number of games played" is big turn-off, for me. Yes, it will likely get better (waiting 239 seconds instead of 240 is technically better), but still doesn't get to the core of casual vs. competitive. There are those of us, and I don't presume to speak for everyone, who want to crack jokes over comms, smash robots, and not use the "new meta". And, just as importantly, we'd like the toxic Try Hards (note: I said toxic Try Hards, not just Try Hards) to stop berating and cursing at people when they don't use the "new meta" or the "best strategies" or "direct fire instead of LRMs" (not that I use LRMs; I have a Gauss preference).

[Marquis De Lafayette]

I think the problem with groups is that 4 buddies running together who don’t know what they are doing doesn’t significantly unbalance matches in the mid/lower tiers. These are the people who wanted groups in SQ. When you get to the upper tiers a group of 4 (truly) elite players is going to significantly unbalance matches more often than not. As said above, in the old SQ 1 of these guys could unbalance a match, 4 in the new system is ridiculous. Would love to see group 8v8 get a green light, but the best we will probably get is they knock the group size down to 2. I personally am fine with 4 even though I solo drop 90%+ of the time...but I can see that the playerbase probably won’t accept it and keep playing.

They have to find a tonnage fix as well and massively tweak the valve release times to not leave the tier 1’s and 5’s hanging for so long.

That said I do like the general idea of where they have gone. NIghtbirds system might well have been better...but I think it’s an overall improvement from the old grind to tier 1. Just probably did this 4 years too late

[Blind Squirrel]

OneTeamPlayer, on 16 July 2020 - 07:36 AM, said:

If you give people the option to be non-competitive the competitive people will eventually find themselves in an empty queue then untick competitive and start the same process over again in the non-competitive queue.

The split needs to be Solo With tiers and Group queue 8v8 without tiers.

I could see that happening, but I would alter your split methodology:

Solo without tiers (non-competitive); Group queue 8v8 with tiers (competitive).

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Blind Squirrel, on 16 July 2020 - 08:06 AM, said:

Yes, wait times were too long. That reduction in "number of games played" is big turn-off, for me. Yes, it will likely get better (waiting 239 seconds instead of 240 is technically better), but still doesn't get to the core of casual vs. competitive. There are those of us, and I don't presume to speak for everyone, who want to crack jokes over comms, smash robots, and not use the "new meta". And, just as importantly, we'd like the toxic Try Hards (note: I said toxic Try Hards, not just Try Hards) to stop berating and cursing at people when they don't use the "new meta" or the "best strategies" or "direct fire instead of LRMs" (not that I use LRMs; I have a Gauss preference).

I agree in that tier 1 is always going to need tier 2 to make matches happen. Tier 2 is always going to be full of decent-ish shots who run some funky stuff (that they enjoy) and wouldn’t be able to carry (or even contribute in) matches the way elite guys in meta can. So, being that the top guys need plenty of these other guys to make matches, it’s counterproductive to be toxic. I mean I get the frustration, but it’s no different than the old system...where we all always saw plenty of that, so anyone toxic should be used to sub-optimal play in MWO by now. It’s amazing toxic guys like that haven’t had a stroke by now with all the years of “lesser” play they have raged at.

[Blind Squirrel]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 16 July 2020 - 08:17 AM, said:

It’s amazing toxic guys like that haven’t had a stroke by now with all the years of “lesser” play they have raged at.

This made me laugh way more than it should have