38 replies to this topic

[Der Geisterbaer]

Horseman said:

Except for the fact it would drag down the game along with PGI.

Which would leave us with the "not too many people that would actually shed a tear" if PGI were stupid enough to let themselves be dragged down by Crytek in such a manner: The rather limited remaining player base of this game ... and even among that player base there are quite a few that would accept the end of this game under such circumstances with a simple shrug.

[Nesutizale]

Haipyng, on 27 July 2020 - 04:52 AM, said:

It's a nice idea, but a total non-starter. The MechWarrior Intellectual Property owner is never going to weaken their claim to it by allowing any part to be licensed to Open Source. PGI likewise has zero reason to undercut their own development investment in the programming for MWO by licensing it to Open Source. Further the way they monetized the game requires central control (and brought us such lovely things like the grind for modules, the skill tree, MechCredits, etc).

Your thought is awesome for fans of MW and those of us that love the IP. PGI is not really one of those. With MWO there is no real story being told. It's all been Mech pack, after Mech pack. Look at the planned Steam release for MW5 that left so many jilted and super jaded as to PGIs intentions. First and foremost PGI is business oriented and they will not damage their product for the sake of fans of the IP or the players. It would be easier to abandon the MW IP all together and create some new open source game IP to base your own big stompy robot FPS on, but of course, then you lose the fans of MW along the way.

Would it also weaken their claim when people that work with the client side source have to sign a paper that basicly says "You may work with the code to make patches, improvments etc. but you can only hand this stuff over to PGI and don't use it in any other kind of way."

My understanding is if you own an IP you own the idea or certain aspects of an idea. In case of MWO its partial the lore and mechs, mech-combat and so on. Its less the software they used or the tools they used to contribute to the idea.

Like a hammer and chisel are not part of a statue you create and when you hand over that hammer and chisel for someone else to work on the statue too its still your statue. No matter who uses the tools or if its even the same tools. You created something original and that is your IP.

What I can totaly get is that Crytech would say "Wait the cryengine is our baby, PGI you can't hand out our code to just everyone". That is a valid point I think.

As for central control. The idea is that PGI still has control over what makes it into the game and is supported by the server.
Many seam to think that "open" mean everyone can do whatever they want. Maybe I need to make that more clear in the original post.
This idea is centered around supporting PGI by basicly adding our workforce to their software and not them dropping the mic and walk out the door.

PS: Made an edit to the first post to hopefully clear up that I am not asking for PGI to let go of their IP or controll over contant that is created.

Edited by Nesutizale, 27 July 2020 - 11:11 AM.

[Nesutizale]

Since I saw this I was wondering...how hard would it be to mod MW5 to MWO. What would be needed?
Lots of assets are allready present, gameplay is okay, also I think one has to do a good balance pass for Multiplayer. I think the TTK might be to fast for a MP, except you have respawns. And the entire server side structure is most likely missing.
I don't know if PGI simply dissabled that part of the engine or if its completly missing.

Would a MW5 - MWO Mod be more interesting / doable?

Edited by Nesutizale, 27 July 2020 - 11:19 PM.

[John McClintock]

I would build maps for free.

[Horseman]

Nesutizale, on 27 July 2020 - 11:19 PM, said:

Since I saw this I was wondering...how hard would it be to mod MW5 to MWO. What would be needed?
Lots of assets are allready present, gameplay is okay, also I think one has to do a good balance pass for Multiplayer. I think the TTK might be to fast for a MP, except you have respawns. And the entire server side structure is most likely missing.
I don't know if PGI simply dissabled that part of the engine or if its completly missing.

Would a MW5 - MWO Mod be more interesting / doable?

Unfortunately, MW5 is not server-authoritative. That kinda kills the idea dead.

[Nesutizale]

Damn, so "modding" MWO is the best bet and that is basicly also not going to happen with 99.99...% chance.
*sigh* What does one have to do to get this back on the track....buy a mechpack?

[Bistrorider]

Would like to see at least new versions of some maps created by the community in consultation with PGI. Then we can have like Canyons Classic and new version with big shell hole at the middle. Easy to do.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Bistrorider, on 29 July 2020 - 11:59 PM, said:

Would like to see at least new versions of some maps created by the community in consultation with PGI. Then we can have like Canyons Classic and new version with big shell hole at the middle. Easy to do.

never with PGI and Russ...Russ said several times very clearly that he alone and knows best what the community wants.The most of us reading this Theme from beginning , worked with the Cry SDK to own Maps ...Nothing interest from PGI, and now with MW5 nothing further interest to a Crygame MWO with no Cry Folks thats have Experience with this Engine...since 2015 is PGI worked to the Maintance Mode for MWO

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 31 July 2020 - 09:33 PM.

[LordNothing]

Der Geisterbaer, on 26 July 2020 - 03:07 AM, said:

CIG's Star Citizen is on technical level based on CryEngine 3 as well and more than just heavily modified. By now CIG has formally transitioned to Amazon's Lumberyard (but ofc. retained the modifications and the actual transition on technical level is one of the points of contention within the still not fully resolved law suit) which also happens to be a CryEngine 3 fork.

But there likely are serious differences in terms of the original licensing agreements between CIG and Crytek vs. the one PGI has with Crytek because I quite frankly doubt that PGI got themselves one of the highest tier licenses with full source code access to CryEngine and direct developer support as CGI originally did.

=> The licensing for their CryEngine version most definitely is something that heavily influences PGI's ability of handing out the source code of MWO ... and that's under the assumption that they'd actually be willing to do something like that in the first place.

one of the reasons you dont see game developers release their code anymore. games like doom, descent 1&2, quake, freespace 2 and others were able to release their code bases because they owned everything, even the engines. modern games are hodgepodges of the engine itself, 3rd party libraries, even things like database software to handle player accounts. there is also 3rd party art and sound assets. each has their own license agreement, ndas and the like.

even of the games i mentioned above some had to have parts taken out to comply with 3rd party licenses, i seem to recall freespace needing a replacement for its video codec. i think descent was released with its sound code removed. its a bloody nightmare. with a game like mwo there would probably be nothing left after they gutted everything they didnt make themselves.

Edited by LordNothing, 30 July 2020 - 12:26 PM.

[Nesutizale]

I think if they take out everything they didn't made themself we are left with just the mechs and some buildings

[LordNothing]

Nesutizale, on 30 July 2020 - 01:35 PM, said:

I think if they take out everything they didn't made themself we are left with just the mechs and some buildings

yea mech packs, no engine, but mechpacks. would you like to buy an engine pack?

[martian]

Nesutizale, on 30 July 2020 - 01:35 PM, said:

I think if they take out everything they didn't made themself we are left with just the mechs and some buildings

They can thank Alex Iglesias for half of PGI's success. His 'Mechs are great!

[Nesutizale]

Its a bit late for an engine pack but when I started the game buying new engines was a pain to do. I think I would have dropped a dime or two to get an engine pack.

As for the mech designs. I like Alex style, few exceptions that I don't like. For example I would have prefered the Maro IIC to be more angular instead of round. Loved the flat UFO style one but I think that would be a very problematic style. One because it looks to light looking for its weight and the anime like legal part.

If you don't know what design I mean its this one


It took me so long to hunt down a mini of this.

Edited by Nesutizale, 31 July 2020 - 09:05 AM.

[LordNothing]

Nesutizale, on 31 July 2020 - 09:05 AM, said:

Its a bit late for an engine pack but when I started the game buying new engines was a pain to do. I think I would have dropped a dime or two to get an engine pack.

i was referring specifically to the game engine in this case.

but by the time they started doing engine sales i think i owned at least 3 of every type and size barring anything that was obsolete. so i was really disappointed. these days i got so many surplus cbills that i dont even bother to check if i have one anymore.

[Nesutizale]

Oh game engine pack. PGI has invested into Unreal engine so.....mh....no... MWO 2.0 will not happen unless a modder does it, what seams to be problematic because of technical reasons and I have hight doubts PGI has an interest in it unless they find new whales to squezze some more dollars out of.

On the other hand there are still people droping a coin. Meet a new guy a few matches ago that just bought his first mechs.
Oh well for some reason I have my doubts that PGI can make a turnaround on MWO / MWO 2.0 to make it profitable again.

As for surplus of cbills. I also have some lying around along with equipment. While its not as much as I see some streamers have its enough that I hardly worry about it anymore.

[LordNothing]

Nesutizale, on 31 July 2020 - 10:26 AM, said:

Oh game engine pack. PGI has invested into Unreal engine so.....mh....no... MWO 2.0 will not happen unless a modder does it, what seams to be problematic because of technical reasons and I have hight doubts PGI has an interest in it unless they find new whales to squezze some more dollars out of.

On the other hand there are still people droping a coin. Meet a new guy a few matches ago that just bought his first mechs.
Oh well for some reason I have my doubts that PGI can make a turnaround on MWO / MWO 2.0 to make it profitable again.

As for surplus of cbills. I also have some lying around along with equipment. While its not as much as I see some streamers have its enough that I hardly worry about it anymore.

dont think mwo2 will ever happen and if it does it will just be another shovelware title like what mw5 turned out to be. as for open source, thats unlikely considering the complexity of licenses and third party assets. i think the best we can hope for is some serious mw5 modding as pgi has already given us permission to port mwo assets to mw5. if modders can find a way to do a pvp mod that might be the best you can do.

[ripstop]

I have been here from the beginning.

Those two do not accept 'help' from anyone. They do not share their IP with anyone. So many times in the past, people have pleaded with them for the opportunity to help them achieve greatness and they have always passed on the ideas. They have even had 'open discussions' about how to improve, but that has always been one way communication.

You can wish, you can dream. You will always be disappointed.

Sorry to interject, but this is the way it is.

[Nesutizale]

I guess one of the two is Russ? From the way he talks in podcasts I allways got the impression that he is a "control" type of guy.
He seams to love the franchise but can't let go from his grip.
Who is the other person?

As for this beeing wishfull thinking, yes it definitly is. I just like to play with ideas a bit, hopeing that if you throw long and hard enough the ideas towards PGI it will at some point get through.
I mean it took years but PSR changes have finaly happend.

Concidering that the licence has only be extended by 5 years that is the timeframe that is given to either improve the game or know that it will be offline in 5 years.

Personaly I like the game to much to not try to yell at PGI every given chance to get through their thick skulls so that there is at least a chance for an MWO in 5 years.

[Bistrorider]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 30 July 2020 - 02:39 AM, said:

never with PGI and Russ...Russ said several times very clearly that he alone and knows best what the community wants.The most of us reading this Theme from beginning , worked with the Cry SDK to own Maps ...Nothing interest from PGI, and now with MW5 nothing further interest to a Crygame MWO with no Cry Folks thats have Experience with this Engine...since 2015 is PGI worked to the Maintance Mode for MWO

We can still dream on... I think this game desperately needs such project. As a MWO fan and somehow PGI client I would expect some hand shake with the community.

And I think it's really not about doing some MWO 2 from the start. It can make matter worse.