22 replies to this topic

[Rifleman89]

We had 2-3 heavies, 3 mediums, and the rest lights against 3-4 assaults on the other team. Of course all the lights ran off and we got annihilated by their team. There is something seriously wrong with the matchmaking system atm.

[thievingmagpi]

MM isn't really to fault for people running off and dying in 2 minutes

Lotta of legitimate criticism exists, but people running in straight lines in light mechs is a whole different kettle of fish

Edited by thievingmagpi, 20 August 2020 - 04:17 PM.

[JediPanther]

Mm just throws 24 teams together as fast as it can. People that don't play lights die quickly in them. Even worse when they are using the trial trash mechs with sub optimal load outs and less than max armor even without the survival nodes.

[Nesutizale]

JediPanther, on 20 August 2020 - 05:16 PM, said:

Mm just throws 24 teams together as fast as it can.

Ah wait 24x12 = 288 people in the same match? Where do I have to sign my soul away to get that carnage?
I know you meant MM throws 24 people together but I couldn't resist....just imagne what it would look like if you have 144 people each side on ******* big maps.

[Horseman]

Nesutizale, on 21 August 2020 - 12:26 AM, said:

just imagne what it would look like if you have 144 people each side on ******* big maps.

Just imagine how bad it would run.

Rifleman89, on 20 August 2020 - 03:29 PM, said:

We had 2-3 heavies, 3 mediums, and the rest lights against 3-4 assaults on the other team. Of course all the lights ran off and we got annihilated by their team. There is something seriously wrong with the matchmaking system atm.

With that many light mechs, your team should have been able to eat the enemy assaults alive.
There's no balancing for tactical failure.

[Knight Captain Morgan]

the matchmaker is only used for 3% of the matches

[Bud Crue]

Rifleman89, on 20 August 2020 - 03:29 PM, said:

Of course all the lights ran off and we got annihilated by their team.

More often than not, the problem as I see it these days is not the tonnage disparity or that the "lights ran off" per se, but that in most matches people still tend to follow them for no rational reason. I think people are still so hung up on "staying together" that they knee jerk into chasing those lights, then get strung out, and thus, allow even a mediocre, let alone competent, enemy to demolish their tail and then roll them up. Even more sadly, if the enemy has a few high alpha builds (regardless of tonnage...a few properly built Vapor Eagles will do the trick), they can just stand there and kill your team one at a time as they coming running in, chasing after each other.

[Nesutizale]

Horseman, on 21 August 2020 - 01:24 AM, said:

Just imagine how bad it would run.

I imagne it would be turnbased then

[Willard Phule]

What you're either unaware of or simply weren't noticing is whether or not either side had a premade group. They're allowed up to 4 guys in a premade and their weights don't figure into the "balancing."

That means if you've got 4 guys in Fleas, the other side is most likely going to have more assaults because your group decided to gimp whatever team they ended up on. Same thing happens when they drop assaults.

The MatchMaker has a hard enough time putting 24 random idiots together without putting Cadets in matches with T1 premades (it happens). Weight balance is beyond it's ability.

[Requiemking]

Horseman, on 21 August 2020 - 01:24 AM, said:

Just imagine how bad it would run.

With that many light mechs, your team should have been able to eat the enemy assaults alive.
There's no balancing for tactical failure.

Ah, but Horseman, you forgot to account for one little issue. Most Light mechs barely qualify as such anymore due to all the nerfs over the years.

[JediPanther]

Nesutizale, on 21 August 2020 - 12:26 AM, said:

Ah wait 24x12 = 288 people in the same match? Where do I have to sign my soul away to get that carnage?
I know you meant MM throws 24 people together but I couldn't resist....just imagne what it would look like if you have 144 people each side on ******* big maps.

As much as I dislike the battle royal type games I'd give that a try because I don't know of any with robots except for titan fall which is still to much cod like for my tastes. Maybe it was a subconscious hint to any pgi staffer silently reading ideas so pgi can farm ideas to make worse and worse game "features" later.

I like mwo over those due it its much slower pace even if you are a light mech head and there use to be/could be team work used. Now I just seem to play destiny 2 for that than mwo.

[R Valentine]

Soup Q was the end of tonnage balancing. Anyone with half a brain knew that would happen. It was a problem in group queue, so by extension of course it would be a problem in soup.

[Monkey Lover]

No population for assaults to balance. You could try running one looks like you never do.

[Nesutizale]

JediPanther, on 21 August 2020 - 10:56 AM, said:

As much as I dislike the battle royal type games I'd give that a try because I don't know of any with robots except for titan fall which is still to much cod like for my tastes. Maybe it was a subconscious hint to any pgi staffer silently reading ideas so pgi can farm ideas to make worse and worse game "features" later.

I like mwo over those due it its much slower pace even if you are a light mech head and there use to be/could be team work used. Now I just seem to play destiny 2 for that than mwo.

A Battle Royal mode was brought up for MWO but it was pretty fast dismantled as not beeing compatible with MWO.
I would prefer that if you have battles of these sizes that you go with a more conquest like mode, except that instead of playing for points you play your own objectives/bonuses at these points.

For example taking a specific point on the map unlocks ground vehicle support or you can have turrets activate, gates opening, etc. So taking a point isn't just about getting points but acutaly opening up new options.
The extra ground vehicles, for example, would roll out on a specific path to the enemy base. Now you can either reinforce those ground forces with your own mechs or you use them as a distraction and take another path yourself.
Gates could open passages that you couldn't take before.

With that many players at both sides you could actualy have a reserve unit, assault units, support units etc that you could move around. Planing and scouting could have meaning.

Kinda like Faction Warfare but instead of haveing everything seperated in different gamemodes its one ongoing battle. Think a bit more along the lines of the Battlefield games.

[VonBruinwald]

Nesutizale, on 22 August 2020 - 03:32 AM, said:

A Battle Royal mode was brought up for MWO but it was pretty fast dismantled as not beeing compatible with MWO.
I would prefer that if you have battles of these sizes that you go with a more conquest like mode, except that instead of playing for points you play your own objectives/bonuses at these points.

For example taking a specific point on the map unlocks ground vehicle support or you can have turrets activate, gates opening, etc. So taking a point isn't just about getting points but acutaly opening up new options.
The extra ground vehicles, for example, would roll out on a specific path to the enemy base. Now you can either reinforce those ground forces with your own mechs or you use them as a distraction and take another path yourself.
Gates could open passages that you couldn't take before.

With that many players at both sides you could actualy have a reserve unit, assault units, support units etc that you could move around. Planing and scouting could have meaning.

Kinda like Faction Warfare but instead of haveing everything seperated in different gamemodes its one ongoing battle. Think a bit more along the lines of the Battlefield games.

As nice as that sounds it would give lights a purpose, and well...

Lights can't have nice things.

[LowSubmarino]

Rifleman89, on 20 August 2020 - 03:29 PM, said:

We had 2-3 heavies, 3 mediums, and the rest lights against 3-4 assaults on the other team. Of course all the lights ran off and we got annihilated by their team. There is something seriously wrong with the matchmaking system atm.

Sounds more like crappy light pilots and your much lighter but way more mobile team not using its spead to get to better positions much faster than the other team, building fireing lines much faster. Trust me, you had absolute cannonfodder noob teams even back in the days of open beta. I dont see any difference to those day on any level. You get brutally bad teams that melt and dont even manage to dish out a single full alpha before melting like ice cream in a super nova and you got good and strong teams with skill.

No difference.

[Tritous Caraway]

No, I've seen this happen before, recently more than ever. There is almost no way to compensate using skill if you have 7 lights , 2 meds and 1 assault against 6 assults, 4 heavy and 2 meds (yes, i've seen that). The tonnage disparity is simply too hard to overcome.

Something seems to be off with the balancing of groups recently.

[Brauer]

Tritous Caraway, on 24 August 2020 - 10:30 AM, said:

No, I've seen this happen before, recently more than ever. There is almost no way to compensate using skill if you have 7 lights , 2 meds and 1 assault against 6 assults, 4 heavy and 2 meds (yes, i've seen that). The tonnage disparity is simply too hard to overcome.

Something seems to be off with the balancing of groups recently.

Skill can definitely balance this. One of my preferred ways to drop as a group of three or four is with all Vulcans (or similar pseudo-light mechs). That means we're instantly dropping something like 100 tons underweight, but it doesn't really matter for the most part.

Edited by Brauer, 24 August 2020 - 10:34 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Tritous Caraway, on 24 August 2020 - 10:30 AM, said:

No, I've seen this happen before, recently more than ever. There is almost no way to compensate using skill if you have 7 lights , 2 meds and 1 assault against 6 assults, 4 heavy and 2 meds (yes, i've seen that). The tonnage disparity is simply too hard to overcome.

Something seems to be off with the balancing of groups recently.

And just think, if you'd joined a 4 man premade and dropped with Assaults, your team would have had 5 assaults that match. Because, that's the way it works.

If you want to win, join a group. If not, simply accept you are a baby seal to be harvested. Just like Faction Play.

[Brom96]

The end result of joining group queue with solo. Had a lot of such matches, almost invariably team with more assaults win because they can always soak up more damage then you can dish out. No skill on your part will do anything, just do some damage and get out of that match as fast as you can, that's my reasoning.