544 replies to this topic

[Brauer]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 08 October 2020 - 12:06 PM, said:

That’s fair enough to say. I just see a few areas where similar arguments could be made about similar match-up (like this lights v streaks) elements....so, I just don’t see it as a unique issue. It doesn’t take skill to turn stealth on and punk a streak boat either...or for a tiny light to leg hump an atlas to death. Some things are just made to counter other things, but I get where you are coming from and can respect that.
I am just surprised that streaks is the issue talked about as outside of FW I just don’t see of ton of streak boats...much a less ones doing super well. But we each see different things depending on when we play. Also, I would worry that a rebalance makes streaks literally good at nothing....so they become just another weapon system that has no role in the game. We have a few of those already and it’s a shame...but that just my opinion.

My issue with how strong streaks are against lights is how little skill it takes. You're right about stealth punking lock-in boats, and I'm not a terribly big fan of stealth either, though it's also not strong against people who aren't completely dorito dependent.

I don't see a huge issue in making lockon weapons more irrelevant. They bring with them pretty boring gameplay and mechanics so I wouldn't personally be upset by that, but I think a proper re-balabce could keep them relevant.

Edited by Brauer, 08 October 2020 - 12:13 PM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Brauer, on 08 October 2020 - 12:12 PM, said:

My issue with how strong streaks are against lights is how little skill it takes. You're right about stealth punking lock-in boats, and I'm not a terribly big fan of stealth either, though it's also not strong against people who aren't completely dorito dependent.

I don't see a huge issue in making lockon weapons more irrelevant. They bring with them pretty boring gameplay and mechanics so I wouldn't personally be upset by that, but I think a proper re-balabce could keep them relevant.

I don’t have issues with maybe doing a broader balance pass. Just streaks seemed like a weird place to focus on. ATM’s are probably broadly more of an issue. I get the lower skill complaint....it is lower skill. I just think streaks already come with so many possible drawbacks that I can live with the fact that some bad player might be able to do decent damage with them and occasionally kill a good light pilot. Life isn’t fair sometimes. It just seems like their purpose was to deter and punish those leg-humping piranhas, etc. Personally, I like that we have some “role” weapons or systems that do one thing really, really well...but are weak against other things. But, admittedly I do like the rock, paper, scissors elements of MWO. Not everyone has to...

[GARION26]

I'd recommend looking at the matchmaker for Walking WarRobots
You are given the choice 'deploy in any kind of match' or 'select the game mode you want to matchmaker for'

If you want the fastest match you 'deploy in any kind' if you really want a certain mode you select one of the others.
I think that might allow for central que that fills FP/Solaris/Quick Play obviously the mechs and needs for some of these is very different then QP but you could 1) limit access to certain modes until someone has logged enough matches (so newbies aren't dropping in Solaris) 2) give people the option of setting up 'drop decks' for each mode and then using that mech if they drop in that mode.

The more important issue is monetization of the game - For new players I think starter packs are well received in many F2P games 'buy this to get a couple of good starter mechs and some GXP' is a great way to start someone off.

How do you get money off more senior players? The longer I play the less I feel like want to buy things - I've got more then enough stuff.

Maybe have purchased access to new game modes? You need to own mech X (cash only) to get access to map Y or game mode Z?

More importantly we've got to get new blood into the game and keep them.
-Start new players in Tier 5 (or 4) (I understand the theoretical math issues - I think it's meaningless with a low population and frequent drifting of players into and out of the pool)
-Start an advertising campaign - I got into this game because Baradul's videos showed up in my youtube feed.
-The Quarantine hero in March for free was a great idea. Take a decent but not great hero mech and offer it up to people who join in during a blitz advertizing period. Will give them a leg up on starting and make them feel like if they join now they get a free 'bonus'

[Brauer]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 08 October 2020 - 12:24 PM, said:

I don’t have issues with maybe doing a broader balance pass. Just streaks seemed like a weird place to focus on. ATM’s are probably broadly more of an issue. I get the lower skill complaint....it is lower skill. I just think streaks already come with so many possible drawbacks that I can live with the fact that some bad player might be able to do decent damage with them and occasionally kill a good light pilot. Life isn’t fair sometimes. It just seems like their purpose was to deter and punish those leg-humping piranhas, etc. Personally, I like that we have some “role” weapons or systems that do one thing really, really well...but are weak against other things. But, admittedly I do like the rock, paper, scissors elements of MWO. Not everyone has to...

I agree ATMs are an issue. I don't really have any problem with nerfs to lockons.

On the topic of leg-humping piranhas, that's only a truly viable tactic if 1) it's a 1v1, or 2) your team won't shoot the largely stationary piranha that's under your guns. Leg-humping is decidedly not a good strategy for a light outside of a 1v1. I wouldn't be against general increases to torso pitch ranges, and that would help address this problem, but streaks don't serve primarily to deter leg-humpers. They exist, at the moment, to basically instagib lights while requiring very little skill. I don't see that as a good thing for balance because lights are already the weakest weight class.

[Horseman]

GARION26, on 08 October 2020 - 12:45 PM, said:

-Start new players in Tier 5 (or 4) (I understand the theoretical math issues - I think it's meaningless with a low population and frequent drifting of players into and out of the pool)

The math issue can be alleviated if during your cadet period you're treated as lower PSR than normal (say -1K from actual) while your PSR change is based off your actual PSR. Net, you're not getting matched with the higher end of the player base and if you didn't do too well at the end of the cadet period you land in T4 or T5 at its end.

Of course, tightening the matchmaking brackets to 1 tier from current 2 tiers would also help a lot.

Edited by Horseman, 08 October 2020 - 01:12 PM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Brauer, on 08 October 2020 - 01:09 PM, said:

I agree ATMs are an issue. I don't really have any problem with nerfs to lockons.

On the topic of leg-humping piranhas, that's only a truly viable tactic if 1) it's a 1v1, or 2) your team won't shoot the largely stationary piranha that's under your guns. Leg-humping is decidedly not a good strategy for a light outside of a 1v1. I wouldn't be against general increases to torso pitch ranges, and that would help address this problem, but streaks don't serve primarily to deter leg-humpers. They exist, at the moment, to basically instagib lights while requiring very little skill. I don't see that as a good thing for balance because lights are already the weakest weight class.

Yeah I was just using the leg humpers as an example of “not all mechs are made to do well against all other mechs/weapons”. Again, I just see this game as so full of these kind of “bad matchups” (for one side) that I fear we would do more harm than good if we got PGI to monkey with streaks (all because we were worried about bad pilots doing too well???) and create some unintended consequences that look worse than what we see today. Heck, the flea 17 is probably my favorite mech right now....so I really should be all for making streaks worse vs lights. However, I have averaged 500 damage a match since I got it, despite those streakboats...maybe I could start averaging 550 if the nerfed streaks. Lol

[DAEDALOS513]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 08 October 2020 - 12:24 PM, said:

I don’t have issues with maybe doing a broader balance pass. Just streaks seemed like a weird place to focus on. ATM’s are probably broadly more of an issue. I get the lower skill complaint....it is lower skill. I just think streaks already come with so many possible drawbacks that I can live with the fact that some bad player might be able to do decent damage with them and occasionally kill a good light pilot. Life isn’t fair sometimes. It just seems like their purpose was to deter and punish those leg-humping piranhas, etc. Personally, I like that we have some “role” weapons or systems that do one thing really, really well...but are weak against other things. But, admittedly I do like the rock, paper, scissors elements of MWO. Not everyone has to...

Lovin your common sense.. and yep, it doesn't take long for a pir with all those guns to crit out an assaults' weapons.. by the time the assault calls for help the damage is done.. not sure where this bizarre agenda against streaks is coming from.. especially since they are rarely seen..

I like your rock paper scissors analogy.. but unlike rock paper scissors which is based on luck.. here you can actually rely on your wits to win..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 08 October 2020 - 02:41 PM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

DAEDALOS513, on 08 October 2020 - 02:25 PM, said:

Yep, and it doesn't take long for a pir with all those guns to crit out an assaults' weapons.. by the time the assault calls for help the damage is done.. not sure where this bizarre agenda against streaks is coming from.. especially since they are rarely seen..

I like your rock paper scissors analogy.. instead of starting to nerf things it's up to the pilot to use his wits on the battlefield..

Yes. If you are in a light and do see a streakboat just try to bait him into following you into your teams firing line. Bad pilots get tunnel vision and are easy to bait. So, there are other ways to deal with low-skill players playing streakboats as it is. I get the issue in principle, but streaks haven’t really been a big thing for years....in my recollection anyway. IS streaks have always been a red-headed step child that has even more draw backs than Clan streaks....but that is another story for another time.

[The6thMessenger]

Brauer, on 08 October 2020 - 09:00 AM, said:

My point is that there will be minimal freedom to do anything with an MW5 style mechlab. That's basically just tossing out one of the best elements of the game. BTW all players can use the mechlab, and grimmechs and other resources make strong builds easy to find. Contrary to what some players think strong players in MWO tend to be happy to share their builds. I can't imagine MWO being nearly as successful if an MW5 style mechlab invalidated the vast majority of chassis.

Minimal Freedom? You can change weapons can you? And sure, yes the unfettered MechLab is the best feature of MWO, but again it's just more chaotic than I would like. MW5-Styled mechlab with a bit more hardpoints would make it feel more like BattleTech, with a bit more bracket-builds because they will try to maximize the hardpoints in an otherwise limited mech. I think people could be more creative with more limitations, because it's all a puzzle, and they would work around it. This is kind of the philosophy of Color-Characters on RWBY.

I never said that they tend to keep the builds to themselves, I said that they tend to make balance-breaking builds. Like Gauss-PPCs, imagine how boring it would be if EVERYONE was running the same stupidly-powerful build.

PGI just did the Sized-Hardpoint wrong. They could have also added a bit more hardpoints, while still using the same sized-hardpoints, but they didn't do that so eh.

I agree, MWO, as it is, won't be as good if it has MW5-Styled Mechlab. But problem with MWO is that it's basically all the same **** with a horribly coded program to begin with, PVP of different flavors. I could see MW5-Styled MechLab working, with adjusted hardpoints, and with the game itself offering more than just PVP of different flavors.

Brauer, on 08 October 2020 - 01:09 PM, said:

Marquis De Lafayette, on 08 October 2020 - 12:24 PM, said:

I don’t have issues with maybe doing a broader balance pass. Just streaks seemed like a weird place to focus on. ATM’s are probably broadly more of an issue. I get the lower skill complaint....it is lower skill. I just think streaks already come with so many possible drawbacks that I can live with the fact that some bad player might be able to do decent damage with them and occasionally kill a good light pilot. Life isn’t fair sometimes. It just seems like their purpose was to deter and punish those leg-humping piranhas, etc. Personally, I like that we have some “role” weapons or systems that do one thing really, really well...but are weak against other things. But, admittedly I do like the rock, paper, scissors elements of MWO. Not everyone has to...

...

They exist, at the moment, to basically instagib lights while requiring very little skill. I don't see that as a good thing for balance because lights are already the weakest weight class.

While I agree that the best players would be the best place to strike a balance, the problem is that they aren't the majority. Buffing or nerfing based on comp-player preferences might not be useful, or even detrimental to the average player looking to just have some fun, hell maybe even to the new players. I prefer the compromise between the higher-player, and the middle-majority.

If you want tightly-knit balance, maybe a different balance-scheme akin Tournament-Rules?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 08 October 2020 - 04:12 PM.

[Voice of Kerensky]

0IOIHIOI0, on 08 October 2020 - 07:19 AM, said:

Powerful rockets for my favorite LRMs should appear in the in-game store. They should be more powerful than in-game ones in 1.25. I also want to add airstrike 2 times more power to the store too. I need a power amplifier for all robots so that my sleipnir can be faster than non-paying ones. I want to choose the color of the lasers myself, I want to shoot with black or rainbow colors. You need to add a more powerful coolshot 1.5 times more powerful than the free one. All this should be paid to make it clear who loves mwo and who is just greedy. I can think of something else. These measures will provide a cash injection into our favorite game and bring it to life.

You know ... I thought it would be difficult to think of something more effective for destroying this game than the possibility of using clan weapons on spheroids mechs proposed by comrade Raining Fire, and the associated rebalancing of mechs and their characteristics.
But you have surpassed fellow Raining Fire. In fact, comrade Raining Fire after your proposal nervously smokes aside. I think he is now scolding himself for the fact that it was not he who introduced this proposal.



Fulfilling your wish will truly kill this game once and for all.
Hats off and bow my head to your brilliant mind.

Edited by Voice of Kerensky, 08 October 2020 - 05:41 PM.

[Kojin]

Nice to see The Beard. Congrats on finding your dream job.

As with any new job, you might be eager to jump in the deep end and do fancy stuff, but may I suggest starting with a clean up of the old. This forum.

There's old threads, dead sections and lingering ghosts around here and they need tidying up, removing completely or updating. For instance the Command Chair and Dev Vlogs make the forum, and by extension the game, look abandoned.

Get the events going, then make the community home look like a home.

[Voice of Kerensky]

To be honest, I don’t understand what caused this storm in a glassful about streak-boats.
I totally disagree that the streak-boat has an overwhelming advantage over light mech.
1) In order not to become an easy prey for a streak-boat, light mech must constantly move, not allowing itself to be taken into lock. Move back and forth, right and left. If you stopped for a long time and during this time you were killed by a streak-mech. It’s only your fault.
2) If you on a light mech do not have enough intelligence for press the "R" button, and look before attacking what weapon have enemy's mech. Well, this is again your problem. Do it, press this button and get information about the enemy. Do this especially if you have a Mad Dog, Trebuchet or Huntsman in front of you. You just need to avoid them, find yourself another target: biger and less agile. And again - don't stay in one place for a long time.
3) Use cover and terrain for quick attacks. If you were smart enough to attack a streak-boat in an open field with no cover on a light mech, well, that's just your mistake.
4) If you play on a slow light mech, stand next to your big comrades. Provoke the streak boat to attack your big comrades, not you. If you are on light mech, which has a speed of less than 120 kph, and decided to arrange a duel against a streak-boat, you have head problems.
5) If you are playing on a light mech with an ECM and you have a friend on a light mech with an ECM, attack the streak-boat. Get closer to it 120 meters, muffle it with your ECMs and tear it apart. The streak-boat can do absolutely nothing to you, its will be very lucky if streak-mech just manages to escape from you. Therefore, you need to go straight to his feet, block him and tear him to pieces.
I’ll tell you a story about what a big advantage a streak-boat has over light mech. Once in FP I played on a streak-Huntsman (8xssrm-4), and my friend on Sun Spider (3xATM-12). On our way, we came across Locust, this Locust stood and did not move. My friend fired three full shots of his ATMs at this Locust from the optimal distance, I fired three full shots from my streaks (96 missiles, 192 damage!). In Locust, not a single component (!) was opened up to the structure. His armor only did change color to orange (!). What was it? Cheat (1000 armor at Locust)? Lagshield?

Edited by Voice of Kerensky, 09 October 2020 - 01:22 AM.

[Javin]

Release the map tools and let us make maps for the game. Please!!! I could care less about more mechs. New maps would create new tactics, new content, something for players to do, just... please?

[Ralph Edwards]

Glad you are back Bomb!

Also glad that there is going to be life back into this game (am redownloading as I type).

Some things I would like to see are mainly bug fixes, the aforementioned rescale (PRIORITY) and of course more maps. I would even support the funding for maps through a special mechpack deal.

[0IOIHIOI0]

From the experience of playing in other MMOs, I can offer more ideas on how to make players pay and get new players. I want to get temporary full invisibility, the more expensive the longer. I need the ability to freeze the enemy for a while or slow down or disable their weapons. To completely blind the enemy, I would pay for it. I need the ability to ban a player on the forum or in the game for a while for a donate. Replacing an opponent's robot directly in battle with another will, for example, replace DEATHSTRIKE with FLEA. I still have ideas on how to make our favorite game great again.

[Alreech]

Brauer, on 08 October 2020 - 09:00 AM, said:

My point is that there will be minimal freedom to do anything with an MW5 style mechlab. That's basically just tossing out one of the best elements of the game. BTW all players can use the mechlab, and grimmechs and other resources make strong builds easy to find. Contrary to what some players think strong players in MWO tend to be happy to share their builds. I can't imagine MWO being nearly as successful if an MW5 style mechlab invalidated the vast majority of chassis.

MWOs Mechlab is not unlimited, it's indirectly limited by things like Ghost Heat, Hardpoint placement & Quirks.
Yes, you can put 3 PPCs in almost any MWO Mech, but PGI limited that with Ghost Heat.
Mechs like the Awesome have terrible Hardpoint Placements - compared to Mechs like the Battlemaster.
Want to play a Mech with 3 PPCs? A Battlemaster is a better choice because of the 6 high mountend Energy Hardpoints.

The Mechlab of MW 5 uses direct limitation: most Mechs don't have 3 Large Energy Hardpoints, and if you want to run a Mech with 3 PPCs you are forced to run Mechs like the Awesome or some Marauders / Marauder II Variants.

If an unlimited Mechlab is so good for a multiplayer game, why are many against Clan Weapons in IS Mechs?
Even if that makes more Mechs just useless, whats the Problem with a Mechwarrior Game with only a couple of good Mechs (due Hardpoint placement & Quirks) and plenty of useless Mechs no competetive player would play?

[C337Skymaster]

Daeron, another request I just remembered I used to have: eliminate convergence!! If all weapons fired straight forward from their mounting point, we could limit the effect of some of these super-high alpha pinpoint builds, and it would simultaneously make it easier to lead a target at long range (where your weapons are currently "converging" on the landscape behind the target, and not on where the target will be by the time your weapons get there), and make it easier to corner-peek (where currently your arm is exposed and able to fire, but your reticle is focused on the invisible wall that you're looking through, about 10m from your face, causing your arm-mounted weapon to shoot at an 80 degree angle from its mount to hit the invisible wall, instead of the target).

And Brauer, when's the last time you used streaks? Do you know just how freaking hard it is to get them to lock onto anything, anymore? You need laser-boat accuracy with your targeting reticle, and have to hold that level of accuracy for three or four seconds while the weapons lock on. If you slip off the target, your lockon backs down, and it takes even longer to get a lock. Just holding your reticle over the target square is not sufficient, anymore. Below 10m, the accuracy requirement suddenly jumps to headshot levels of precision. So yes, once you finally DO get streaks to lock onto the target, you generally only have one shot, maybe two, and they need to count. About the only advantage Streaks have in this regard is that they can be torso-mounted, and benefit from the accuracy of your arms.

[WarmasterRaptor]

I really want to believe... I really do.

Please make me live the dream again.

[DAEDALOS513]

Voice of Kerensky, on 08 October 2020 - 06:48 PM, said:

To be honest, I don’t understand what caused this storm in a glassful about streak-boats.
I totally disagree that the streak-boat has an overwhelming advantage over light mech.
1) In order not to become an easy prey for a streak-boat, light mech must constantly move, not allowing itself to be taken into lock. Move back and forth, right and left. If you stopped for a long time and during this time you were killed by a streak-mech. It’s only your fault.
2) If you on a light mech do not have enough intelligence for press the "R" button, and look before attacking what weapon have enemy's mech. Well, this is again your problem. Do it, press this button and get information about the enemy. Do this especially if you have a Mad Dog, Trebuchet or Huntsman in front of you. You just need to avoid them, find yourself another target: biger and less agile. And again - don't stay in one place for a long time.
3) Use cover and terrain for quick attacks. If you were smart enough to attack a streak-boat in an open field with no cover on a light mech, well, that's just your mistake.
4) If you play on a slow light mech, stand next to your big comrades. Provoke the streak boat to attack your big comrades, not you. If you are on light mech, which has a speed of less than 120 kph, and decided to arrange a duel against a streak-boat, you have head problems.
5) If you are playing on a light mech with an ECM and you have a friend on a light mech with an ECM, attack the streak-boat. Get closer to it 120 meters, muffle it with your ECMs and tear it apart. The streak-boat can do absolutely nothing to you, its will be very lucky if streak-mech just manages to escape from you. Therefore, you need to go straight to his feet, block him and tear him to pieces.
I’ll tell you a story about what a big advantage a streak-boat has over light mech. Once in FP I played on a streak-Huntsman (8xssrm-4), and my friend on Sun Spider (3xATM-12). On our way, we came across Locust, this Locust stood and did not move. My friend fired three full shots of his ATMs at this Locust from the optimal distance, I fired three full shots from my streaks (96 missiles, 192 damage!). In Locust, not a single component (!) was opened up to the structure. His armor only did change color to orange (!). What was it? Cheat (1000 armor at Locust)? Lagshield?

All new pilots.. and maybe those 'DIV A' pilots mentioned earlier... should print out your message, frame it and hang it up on their wall.. well said mate.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 09 October 2020 - 09:33 AM.

[WarmasterRaptor]

Lockheed_, on 09 October 2020 - 09:24 AM, said:

If you believe an old game with a clunky, dated engine can be turned around to the degree that it's generating more revenue and getting lots of players back (and this seems to be PGIs objective, not to make a couple of existing players happy) then you are living a pipe dream.

I really tried bringing friends to MWO, I got about 15 people interested and everyone took a look at the graphics and said "bro, i'm not playing a game that looks like 2005!"

Well,I thought my post conveyed that it's on their side to make me believe.
Because right now...