43 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

PGI is a bit picky with what is viable, when what is needed is to change MWO as a game, not just some small content. So what about a different Game-Mode? A PVE game-mode.

No engine overhaul, just ******* rudimentary AI. All 4-Man drop, which should be easier to drop with because you don't have to wait for 20 other players, fact is low population is what MWO has to contend with so having smaller drops with more gameplay should be a bit more promising. Because they are also not against veterans, there should be better new player retention. PVE missions also provide something different, and will attract people back.

Quote

PVE Base Defense - basically PVE Basically Zombie Mode on MWO.

Academy has this Onslaught mode, where there's rudimentary AI with stock mechs going after you. Now just do that, but 10x bigger -- as in bigger map with randomized environmental features, on a 4-player coop. They attack you and the base, the game stops when the base is destroyed.

The Lights rush the base, the Assaults rush the defenders, and Medium and Heavies rush the closest.

It's basically FP Siege Defense, but with Incursion Base than generator and cannons, versus a hoard of stock mechs.

Quote

Assassination - PVE Escort

PVP escort wasn't fun, AI was dumb, and has to be dumbed down to make a balance between the defenders and attackers. So here's a different Escort, we will be fighting Stock-Mech Armies.

Because there is only the Attackers, the Escort and the VIP could be made as powerful and broken as possible. VIP could also shoot back, there could be as much as 16 other stock mechs.

The VIP can also randomize between Classes, like it could be an Urbanmech, a Hunchback, an Orion, and then an Atlas.

Quote

PVE Infiltration CTF

In MW4, I was rather engaged with that one stealth mission. I was all alone in some moon-surface, and I wasn't supposed to have the fire-power, and instead think of how to do it. I was just having fun trying and trying until I got it, and eventually I did.

How it works is that there is a base where, like the Incursion battery, one must wait to capture an item, and then drop it on the other designated side of the map.

The base is full of roaming, wandering garrison mechs, and they have incredible accuracy. And the players must find a way to get the "battery" out of the base, either by stealth or whatever. Teams could choose to have 3 mech decoy, or plow through the base.

They can also be chased by a lance of mechs out from the base once the battery is captured.

I'll add more gamemode ideas eventually.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 09 October 2020 - 09:07 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

I like the enthusiasm but have you played MW5? Or even worse remember Escort mode?

[The6thMessenger]

Darian DelFord, on 09 October 2020 - 08:00 PM, said:

I like the enthusiasm but have you played MW5? Or even worse remember Escort mode?

You mean they are bad at AI? Yes still fresh.

But at least it offers something different, and different is what we need. Dumb AI isn't going to be much more detrimental since they aren't your allies in this campaign.

Also I don't have MW5, so unless you have a redeem code for Microsoft Store that you would like to give me, I really don't want to talk about it.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 09 October 2020 - 08:08 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

The6thMessenger, on 09 October 2020 - 08:06 PM, said:

You mean they are bad at AI? Yes still fresh.

But at least it offers something different, and different is what we need. Dumb AI isn't going to be much more detrimental since they aren't your allies in this campaign.

Also I don't have MW5, so unless you have a redeem code for Microsoft Store that you would like to give me, I really don't want to talk about it.

Your not missing anything with MW5.

MWO Problems boil down to this....

Community = A TON OF GREAT IDEAS

PGI = Doing the exact opposite for no sound reason

Which = The Current State of MWO.


I truly hope they can turn this around, I really do. However their track record is really really against them.

[The6thMessenger]

Darian DelFord, on 09 October 2020 - 08:13 PM, said:

Your not missing anything with MW5.

MWO Problems boil down to this....

Community = A TON OF GREAT IDEAS

PGI = Doing the exact opposite for no sound reason

Which = The Current State of MWO.

I truly hope they can turn this around, I really do. However their track record is really really against them.

Well, the difference is that well, you can freely fix MW5 on your own through mods, which I liked in games. MWO can only be fixed when PGI is willing, honestly it seems that they are. Lets just hope that it's not all for nothing.

[Darian DelFord]

The6thMessenger, on 09 October 2020 - 08:20 PM, said:

Well, the difference is that well, you can freely fix MW5 on your own through mods, which I liked in games. MWO can only be fixed when PGI is willing, honestly it seems that they are. Lets just hope that it's not all for nothing.

ETA 90 Days

[The6thMessenger]

Darian DelFord, on 10 October 2020 - 07:30 PM, said:

ETA 90 Days

You mean 61 days?

[Nightbird]

Adding even rudimentary AI to MWO that can navigate terrain and shoot weapons would cost over 1 mil $, so it's not an easy sell without a guaranteed revenue stream.

I would definitely limit it to suggestions that cost less than 100k $.

Edited by Nightbird, 10 October 2020 - 08:18 PM.

[Bulletsponge0]

The6thMessenger, on 09 October 2020 - 08:20 PM, said:

Well, the difference is that well, you can freely fix MW5 on your own through mods, which I liked in games. MWO can only be fixed when PGI is willing, honestly it seems that they are. Lets just hope that it's not all for nothing.

Did I miss an announcement or something that would indicate this? Because based on the past year+ there hasn't really been any indication that they are willing...

[The6thMessenger]

Bulletsponge0, on 10 October 2020 - 08:54 PM, said:

Did I miss an announcement or something that would indicate this? Because based on the past year+ there hasn't really been any indication that they are willing...

Well, the podcasts indicates this. But take note of "seems", which means nothing more than impression. Throughout the life of MWO, PGI "seems" with a lot of projects, so take that with a grain of salt.

The adage "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" comes to mind.

Nightbird, on 10 October 2020 - 08:17 PM, said:

Adding even rudimentary AI to MWO that can navigate terrain and shoot weapons would cost over 1 mil $, so it's not an easy sell without a guaranteed revenue stream.

I would definitely limit it to suggestions that cost less than 100k $.

So how can you get a revenue stream when you have barely anything to offer in the first place?

It's always the excuse "not financially viable", but never stopped to consider "what do we have to offer that people are willing to pay for".

Edited by The6thMessenger, 11 October 2020 - 01:06 AM.

[Darian DelFord]

The6thMessenger, on 10 October 2020 - 09:23 PM, said:

So how can you get a revenue stream when you have barely anything to offer in the first place?

And THAT RIGHT THERE is PGI's Problem.

It started with Releasing Clans WAY WAY WAY to early. The IS Mechs they had were not even balanced yet. Had they waited a Year or so and then did the Clans as the "First" Expansion then I truly believe this game would be in a much better place.

But their excuse was "IGP Marketed it so we had to follow up and do it" fell on death's ears. They knew folks wanted their clan mechs and they found a way to make a profit off of it.

That was the First really really bad financial and longevity mistake. The first of many I am afraid.

[RickySpanish]

Nightbird, on 10 October 2020 - 08:17 PM, said:

Adding even rudimentary AI to MWO that can navigate terrain and shoot weapons would cost over 1 mil $, so it's not an easy sell without a guaranteed revenue stream.

I would definitely limit it to suggestions that cost less than 100k $.

Ooover one. Miiilllion dollarz!

That's the salary of a senior developer for ten years. I call bull on wherever or whomever you got that number from.

[The6thMessenger]

RickySpanish, on 11 October 2020 - 05:42 AM, said:

Ooover one. Miiilllion dollarz!

That's the salary of a senior developer for ten years. I call bull on wherever or whomever you got that number from.

So how many people are working in PGI again? As well as how long the development is going to be?

Not that I am agreeing with him, it's just there is no point agreeing or disagreeing with such specific and citationless answer, you should just consider the bottomline of his argument.

That they cannot commit to such an apparently costly implementation.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 11 October 2020 - 06:16 AM.

[Nightbird]

Eeesh... keep in mind PvE is available in MW5 which is the unreal engine available for MWO2, so it makes no sense to re-implement in cryengine. As for the cost, write down all the tasks you need to do and ballpark the dev time for each, it's not that hard.

Even in MWO2, with the AI from Unreal readilyavailable, it would cost more than 1 mil to create one game mode that is PvP with AI enemies in the middle for favor. From white boxing to release, there are so many steps.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 11 October 2020 - 08:10 AM, said:

Eeesh... keep in mind PvE is available in MW5 which is the unreal engine available for MWO2, so it makes no sense to re-implement in cryengine. As for the cost, write down all the tasks you need to do and ballpark the dev time for each, it's not that hard.

Even in MWO2, with the AI from Unreal readilyavailable, it would cost more than 1 mil to create one game mode that is PvP with AI enemies in the middle for favor. From white boxing to release, there are so many steps.

If they already have MWO2 in UE, I don't see the point of reimplementing it in Cry-Engine when it will be regardless anyways. Just work on the netcode on a better engine, instead of reimplementing the AI on the engine they could do barely ******** anyways.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 11 October 2020 - 08:44 AM.

[Nightbird]

The6thMessenger, on 11 October 2020 - 08:39 AM, said:

If they already have MWO2 in UE, I don't see the point of reimplementing it in Cry-Engine when it will be regardless anyways. Just work on the netcode on a better engine, instead of reimplementing the AI on the engine they could do barely ******** anyways.

MWO2 would cost 5mil to dev minimum

(I'm not itemizing costs, sue me)

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 11 October 2020 - 08:56 AM, said:

MWO2 would cost 5mil to dev minimum

(I'm not itemizing costs, sue me)

So versus basic MWO on cry engine, which one has better potential for return of investment?

[Nightbird]

MWO is safer to test changes. Keeping a game running only involves paying for the servers. PGI has a lot of artists and such so they are working on MW5 until that money runs out. Even if the tweaks make MWO better, it's hard to draw people back to such an old game. On that front, if PGI learns how to deliver a polished product, MWO2 is the way to attract a lot of new customers. That been said, MWO2 without learning how to polish a game and you have a financial failure since the player base is unlikely to be as patient as with MWO.

[LordNothing]

The6thMessenger, on 09 October 2020 - 08:20 PM, said:

Well, the difference is that well, you can freely fix MW5 on your own through mods, which I liked in games. MWO can only be fixed when PGI is willing, honestly it seems that they are. Lets just hope that it's not all for nothing.

im not sure mods can fix the game. its that bad. its like putting a coat of paint on a poo.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 October 2020 - 04:26 PM.

[LordNothing]

Nightbird, on 11 October 2020 - 04:17 PM, said:

MWO is safer to test changes. Keeping a game running only involves paying for the servers. PGI has a lot of artists and such so they are working on MW5 until that money runs out. Even if the tweaks make MWO better, it's hard to draw people back to such an old game. On that front, if PGI learns how to deliver a polished product, MWO2 is the way to attract a lot of new customers. That been said, MWO2 without learning how to polish a game and you have a financial failure since the player base is unlikely to be as patient as with MWO.

there are limits to how much they can milk the franchise. after 2 mediocre games im not sure i want to buy into another mechwarrior game if pgi is the developer.