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The Faction Play Proposal


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#1 Yondu Udonta

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 12:41 AM

Well the recent podcast regarding the future of MWO has gotten everyone excited, from the diehard veterans who still believe in this game to the pessimists who do not think anything will come to fruition. Even though I tend towards the latter, as being one of, if not the most prominent Faction Play streamer with significant knowledge regarding this game mode, it would not be right for me to sit and watch Faction Play get no improvements while other aspects of MWO got changes that were long asked for. So let me propose some small changes that I believe most of the Faction Play community have been asking for for the past few years. Bigger changes, although definitely more preferred, will not be discussed due to reasons that we all know of.


General
Tonnage: IS and Clans to have EVEN tonnage (265 or 260 tons). While people may say that Faction Play is a pretty different game mode to Comp Play, I believe that MWO should be balanced according to the highest echelon of gameplay, which is Comp Play. The data acquired from 2019 MWO Championship Series showed that IS mechs were used more than Clan mechs, which suggests that IS mechs are better than Clan mechs overall. As such, unless significant balancing of mechs occur, I think evening out the tonnage for both sides would be an overall improvement.

Leaderboards: No big concerns about this, but allow sorting of leaderboards with other metrics such as KMDD or KDR would be preferred than just having it fixed to LP only.

Planetary Conquest: I see no reason for this feature to be removed in the first place. Having your unit's tag on a planet serves as bragging rights, which is what Faction Play/Community Warfare should be all about. The MC that comes from holding the planet also serves as an incentive for one to join an unit and engage with like-minded players. Hence I think that this essential feature of Faction Play should be brought back. However, I think that the tug-of-war system that was in place should be tweaked or removed entirely as the current active Faction Play population is unlikely to be sufficient to swing the tug-of-war past the thresholds.

Queues: The queue changes made during 'the Year of Faction Play' has been generally met with dissatisfaction. While it is nice that we can once again see how many people are currently in the queue, having the two warring Factions being confined to either the attacking or defending side has resulted in the queue usually being stacked towards the latter, which leads to increased wait times as people are unwilling to switch to the attacking side due to defender's advantage. A revert to the previous system where either side can get Siege Attack or Siege Defence would improve waiting times. Also, please remove the short narrative that goes along with every conflict phase where Faction X is fighting Faction Y for Reason Z, it is unnecessary as the majority, if not all players do not care about it. It saves up on manpower too as no one would be needed to write fictional stories, while also avoiding temporary ceasefires when there were no stories in queue. Most importantly, give Scouting its own separate queue. The majority of players do not like it when Scouting is the only mode available as other modes are preferred over it. The only reason why people who prefer non-Scouting modes over Scouting would play this game mode is when there is not enough people for 12v12 Faction Play. Vice versa, people who prefer Scouting would not engage in 12v12 Faction Play regardless of player numbers.

Units: Why is there still increasing recruitment costs for units? Why is it even a thing in a mode that is supposed to be focused on playing as a group.

Mode selection: After countless Faction Play games following the last significant update to this game mode, it has become apparent that the weightage for the currently available modes are not equal. For example, Conquest and Siege are the available modes for a conflict phase. There are 12 non-invasion maps and 6 invasion maps in the pool of Faction Play maps. However, I believe that the weightage is equally spread across all 18 maps, instead of across the two modes, so that means that there is a 2 in 3 chance that a match would be Conquest and a 1 in 3 chance that a match would be Siege (pretty sure confirmation bias isn't in play here). People who play Faction Play overwhelmingly prefer to play Siege over the other modes that are available in Quick Play, so fixing the weightage to be equally spread across the available modes would reduce instances of players getting aggravated over constantly playing a less desired game mode.


Non-Invasion Game Modes

Assault: No change

Conquest: Increase required ticket count from 1250 to either 1500 or 1750. A Conquest match in Quick Play requires 750 tickets. Faction Play has 4 times the mechs, it makes sense that the required ticket count should be significantly increased from 1250.

Domination: Timer could be extended from 90 seconds to maybe 120 seconds. On bigger maps such as Polar Highlands, 90 seconds is less than sufficient to respawn and contest the circle.

Incursion: Outside of removing this mode entirely from Faction Play, building health should be increased significantly, minimally doubled. In Quick Play, teams are unable to coordinate their mechs and as such a win via objective is rare. However, in Faction Play, teams are more likely to coordinate, dropping in full Assassin or Linebacker waves to drop the base in one wave. Increasing the overall hitpoints of the base would result in more interesting Incursion matches.

Skirmish: No change


Invasion Game Modes

Siege: Should Planetary Conquest become part of Faction Play again, I would advocate for an increase in hitpoints for the generators and Omega as there would consequently be an increase in players prioritizing objectives over kills and damage. Otherwise, I think Siege is fine currently.

Scouting: Benefits from Scouting such as Combat ID, Satellite Sweep and Radar Jammer should return, as this allows Scouting to have an impact on conflicts, with such advantages/disadvantages adding extra complexity and flavour to 12v12 Faction Play. Also, smoke diving may be an issue but I will not be addressing that as I have little regard and experience for Scouting.




If you read this whole wall of text that I have painstakingly brainstormed and typed out, then I thank you for your time. Feel free to discuss any ideas and differences that you may have, as even if we may have differing opinions I think one thing is clear, that we all want the best for Faction Play. MAKE FACTION GREAT AGAIN!

Edited by Yondu Udonta, 14 October 2020 - 12:52 AM.


#2 That Mech

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 01:00 AM

Sounds like these changes are in the right direction to bring back more FP players.

#3 KingJ00

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 01:02 AM

YES! PLEASE, THIS! Faction is NOT what it used to be, all the the things I enjoyed were changed. Yondu is bang on what would make it fun again.

#4 YouKnowNothing

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 01:17 AM

Disclaimer: I'm not a FP regular, in fact I don't even remember when last I've played a FP match that wasn't Scouting, so apply this filter to everything I say.

- tonnage: agree, balance has really evened out differences between Clan and IS, so this might at least calm some of the voices that still cry about how clans were nerfed to oblivion;

- leaderboards: sure, either is a better metric than LP definitely;

- planetary conquest: I've never been part of a big unit, that could take and hold planets, so this leaves me completely indifferent, I can't say I have an opinion either or;

- queues: agree about the assalt/defense missions, get some randomness in, otherwise, if for example, PUGs notice a big group play turtle, they're just gonna throw their hands in the air and give up; also, GIB SCOUTING BACK! I might find a reason to go to the faction play tab this way...

- Unit recruitment costs: were added as a deterrent to big units... maybe reduce the costs in half, otherwise I don't see any issue really. Initial costs aren't that prohibitive, and if/when the unit grows, I don't see how every unit member contributing the earnings of 1,2 matches a month, say, is such a big issue.

- mode selection: honestly, other than Conquest, I couldn't care less about the other QP modes in FP. Double the points needed for a victory condition, and you've made one of the most fun, fast paced, non-static gamemodes in MWO, in my opinion.

These being said, I'm gonna repeat my disclaimer again:I'm not a FP regular so apply this filter to everything I say.

Edited by YouKnowNothing, 14 October 2020 - 01:18 AM.


#5 Ignatius Audene

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 01:52 AM

Fix smoke dive is easy. Ds can't lift of while enemy in landing zone.

#6 Gagis

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 01:59 AM

Yondu knows his stuff.

Scouting would be great to have in some properly fixed form. It was my favourite mode when it was practically tonnage limited 4v4 brawl mode, but that was ruined as soon as someone realized the objective could be played too. The objective in Scouting is just actively opposed to fun happening.

#7 Voxsera Hazen

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 02:06 AM

Hit the nail right on the head.

Definitely agree on all points, mirrors my own thoughts as well. Would love some of that sweet planet MC again...

#8 Temporary Axis

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 04:23 AM

Well said Yondu.

This has my full agreement.

#9 The6thMessenger

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 04:53 AM

I'm going to be honest. I miss the tug of war, where siege becomes more likely the more you win games in a planet.

The thing is that, well, the other game-modes are just basically long drawn-out QP game modes, while interesting in themselves, it's just that I expect something kind of different in FP.

The Tug of War is a good system to be honest, because it still forces you to slog through the bar, and finally rewarded to get Siege.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 14 October 2020 - 04:55 AM.


#10 Yondu Udonta

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 05:27 AM

View PostIgnatius Audene, on 14 October 2020 - 01:52 AM, said:

Fix smoke dive is easy. Ds can't lift of while enemy in landing zone.

I was thinking that too but iirc dropships in scouting are the same as the other dropships in FP, which would result in the defenders getting shredded when in range.

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 14 October 2020 - 04:53 AM, said:

I'm going to be honest. I miss the tug of war, where siege becomes more likely the more you win games in a planet.

The thing is that, well, the other game-modes are just basically long drawn-out QP game modes, while interesting in themselves, it's just that I expect something kind of different in FP.

The Tug of War is a good system to be honest, because it still forces you to slog through the bar, and finally rewarded to get Siege.

I agree that non-invasion modes are as less exciting compared to Siege, but I disagree that they are basically long drawn-out QP game modes. Unlike in QP where it is nothing but nascar, Faction Play emphasizes on selecting mechs suitable for the particular map-mode combination and engaging accordingly. Also, I disagree with having to slog through the bar for Siege. The low population and the tendency for pugs to queue on the winning side while the premades queue on the other side would usually result in the tug-of-war balancing itself out. As such, Siege would be unlikely to occur, which would frustrate players.

#11 The6thMessenger

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 05:37 AM

View PostYondu Udonta, on 14 October 2020 - 05:27 AM, said:

I agree that non-invasion modes are as less exciting compared to Siege, but I disagree that they are basically long drawn-out QP game modes. Unlike in QP where it is nothing but nascar, Faction Play emphasizes on selecting mechs suitable for the particular map-mode combination and engaging accordingly. Also, I disagree with having to slog through the bar for Siege. The low population and the tendency for pugs to queue on the winning side while the premades queue on the other side would usually result in the tug-of-war balancing itself out. As such, Siege would be unlikely to occur, which would frustrate players.


That's fair.

#12 theUgly

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 06:10 AM

Good post, I hope somebody from PGI reads it.
... but i don't trust them to actually put work in.

How many years we haven't had a new faction play map?
Am sure they will start pedaling new mechs before that...

#13 Nightbird

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 08:31 AM

I'm for these changes, maybe moving both sides to 255 tons to see less double assault decks.

250 tons even.

#14 Ignatius Audene

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 10:26 AM

scouting ds is armed only with med lasers. And this only gives u a chance in cased u messed up the caps (or red team dives). So u are prob fighting 4 lights.

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 14 October 2020 - 10:27 AM.


#15 Seven Strikes

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 11:42 AM

View PostYondu Udonta, on 14 October 2020 - 12:41 AM, said:


Planetary Conquest: I see no reason for this feature to be removed in the first place. Having your unit's tag on a planet serves as bragging rights, which is what Faction Play/Community Warfare should be all about. The MC that comes from holding the planet also serves as an incentive for one to join an unit and engage with like-minded players. Hence I think that this essential feature of Faction Play should be brought back. However, I think that the tug-of-war system that was in place should be tweaked or removed entirely as the current active Faction Play population is unlikely to be sufficient to swing the tug-of-war past the thresholds.


I agree with 90% of your post and would love to see major Faction Play improvements.

As much as I would LOVE to see Planetary Conquest and I would love to fight for a planet and get my juicy MC I don't think that MWO currently has the player base to make this a realistic option, and i assume that's why it was removed?

Literally once this game mode is back in it will turn into JGx's free MC farming, (Which lets me honest, most of them don't even need it.) (Looking at you Temporary Axis. hahaha)

I'm not sure how it could be reinstated w/o everyone not in the mega-units being upset that now there is a "new" reward available but they'll never be able to get it.

Alternatively if you have your "Average" unit dropping 12 man into Q at weird hours just to farm the puggies for their planet I don't know if the puggies will keep wanting to drop anymore?

It's a crappy situation to figure out.

Additionally: Spice up the faction play rewards both for single matches, leveling up faction reputations, etc and that could drag more players into Faction Play.

I can't count how many times I've heard "I only play Faction for Mech Bays" if there were more rewards that might also drive more participation.

Thoughts?

#16 Temporary Axis

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 01:09 PM

View PostSeven Strikes, on 14 October 2020 - 11:42 AM, said:


I agree with 90% of your post and would love to see major Faction Play improvements.

As much as I would LOVE to see Planetary Conquest and I would love to fight for a planet and get my juicy MC I don't think that MWO currently has the player base to make this a realistic option, and i assume that's why it was removed?

Literally once this game mode is back in it will turn into JGx's free MC farming, (Which lets me honest, most of them don't even need it.) (Looking at you Temporary Axis. hahaha)

I'm not sure how it could be reinstated w/o everyone not in the mega-units being upset that now there is a "new" reward available but they'll never be able to get it.

Alternatively if you have your "Average" unit dropping 12 man into Q at weird hours just to farm the puggies for their planet I don't know if the puggies will keep wanting to drop anymore?

It's a crappy situation to figure out.

Additionally: Spice up the faction play rewards both for single matches, leveling up faction reputations, etc and that could drag more players into Faction Play.

I can't count how many times I've heard "I only play Faction for Mech Bays" if there were more rewards that might also drive more participation.

Thoughts?



It doesn't matter what is done or where JGx goes, we will be accused of farming anyway.....


And my MC needs are real thank you

Edited by Temporary Axis, 14 October 2020 - 01:09 PM.


#17 Nightbird

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 02:30 PM

Just play comp for MC, 1 day of dropping = 6 months of FP MC grinding lol

#18 RKS Phoenix

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 03:30 PM

Thanks Yondu for these proposals, all worthy items. I would add, don't know if it's possible or the effort and resources required, to co sider FP centric events, that would add unique experiences and unravel completely different aspects of the game. These might involve well-publicized battles for one (or more) planets, with clear objectives and subsequent publication of outcomes and/or rewards. I remember hearing about something similar before.

#19 LordNothing

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 04:29 PM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 14 October 2020 - 04:53 AM, said:

I'm going to be honest. I miss the tug of war, where siege becomes more likely the more you win games in a planet.

The thing is that, well, the other game-modes are just basically long drawn-out QP game modes, while interesting in themselves, it's just that I expect something kind of different in FP.

The Tug of War is a good system to be honest, because it still forces you to slog through the bar, and finally rewarded to get Siege.


while i agree with you in principal i worry that this would make siege rare. siege needs to be like 50% or more of the game, since fp is the only place it can be played. i think id randomize defend/attack though so its possible to get both no matter what side you are on.

much of the remainder would be fp conquest (with a higher timer in the 1500-1750 range) and skirmish in equal parts maybe with a rare incursion thrown in every now and again. never liked fp domination because it often leads to a very short game.

#20 LordNothing

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 06:56 PM

View PostNightbird, on 14 October 2020 - 02:30 PM, said:

Just play comp for MC, 1 day of dropping = 6 months of FP MC grinding lol


setting that up is nontrivial. hell i have a hard enough time finding partners for 2v2 solaris every season. so much so i quit doing it.

Edited by LordNothing, 14 October 2020 - 07:22 PM.






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