111 replies to this topic

[Jack Booted Thug]

You. Will. Never. Get. The. Faction. Play. That. Was. Promised. By. PGI. Ever.

You. Will. Never. Get. The. Faction. Play. That. You. Want. From. PGI. Ever.

[50 50]

If you don't ask or even try....

The original vision of FP as put forward all those years ago was ambitious. It's such a tangled web of inter-related parts that as soon as you start adding additional depth and function to it there is a web of areas that need to be considered.
If we can't even get some simple numerical changes like the conquest ticket count changed as Yondo has asked for and which was asked for over a year ago then .... yeah ....

[50 50]

@Yondu
Given there is a bit of a push to separate the soup queue and go back to solo and group quick play queues, what would be your thoughts on saying that Faction Play is the Group play queue and leave quick play as just solo?
Ignoring the 'I want to play with my friends but don't want to play faction' whine.

[Bowelhacker]

There should be an indicator of some sort telling people queueing how many slots are free. Might encourage people to swap sides if they aren't likely to get a game.

[Swamp Ass MkII]

I like all the above... Simply put...

[Ignatius Audene]

Bowelhacker, on 09 November 2020 - 04:33 PM, said:

There should be an indicator of some sort telling people queueing how many slots are free. Might encourage people to swap sides if they aren't likely to get a game.

? There is a counter! I dont understand your question.

[Yondu Udonta]

Jack Booted Thug, on 28 October 2020 - 03:34 AM, said:

You. Will. Never. Get. The. Faction. Play. That. Was. Promised. By. PGI. Ever.

You. Will. Never. Get. The. Faction. Play. That. You. Want. From. PGI. Ever.

As mentioned, I am pretty pessimistic myself but I have to try.

50 50, on 09 November 2020 - 03:21 PM, said:

@Yondu
Given there is a bit of a push to separate the soup queue and go back to solo and group quick play queues, what would be your thoughts on saying that Faction Play is the Group play queue and leave quick play as just solo?
Ignoring the 'I want to play with my friends but don't want to play faction' whine.

I would love that, would probably give the mode a bigger population to work with, though I am pretty certain that many would rather try to drop with friends via syncdrops than play Faction together. Faction Play's population may have been affected by soup but it is not the main reason why the population is so small.

[50 50]

Yondu Udonta, on 10 November 2020 - 01:58 AM, said:

I would love that, would probably give the mode a bigger population to work with, though I am pretty certain that many would rather try to drop with friends via syncdrops than play Faction together. Faction Play's population may have been affected by soup but it is not the main reason why the population is so small.

No. But adding back an extra queue is certainly not going to help.
Getting to the heart of why those players would sync drop instead of group and play FP would be good to address and I am sure there are a few reasons. Without really making note of what those reasons are we have no way to address them or find a solution.

[NAMEUNKOWN]

Does anybody here know
Wildhog of house steiner
Aylward of house davion
Metro of house liao

talk to them about planet capture . Ask them About ISW
back then we had everything trade routes,economy, it actually mattered if you capped a planet. we had what FP should be,
all coded by 1 guy.
unfortunately it fell on its face because that same coder just upped and dissapeared. and of course the player base was not a lot. and we had a lot of arguments just like here. that was about 2004 maybe 2006 . my point is it can be done

Pgi can do the same. do they want to no..

my feeling is just if some guy can do all that. then pgi can do too

[Davegt27]

NAMEUNKOWN, on 11 November 2020 - 10:45 AM, said:

Does anybody here know
Wildhog of house steiner
Aylward of house davion
Metro of house liao

talk to them about planet capture . Ask them About ISW
back then we had everything trade routes,economy, it actually mattered if you capped a planet. we had what FP should be,
all coded by 1 guy.
unfortunately it fell on its face because that same coder just upped and dissapeared. and of course the player base was not a lot. and we had a lot of arguments just like here. that was about 2004 maybe 2006 . my point is it can be done

Pgi can do the same. do they want to no..

my feeling is just if some guy can do all that. then pgi can do too

what is "ISW" ??

"that same coder just upped and dissapeared" what do you mean upped ??

I know back in 2014 I asked on the forums about what people wanted/expected from CW but received no response

[Hammer Hand]

BROARL, on 20 October 2020 - 07:58 PM, said:

^this is very true^

personally i think i recall that for every two potatoes that quit because it was too hard there was a third potato who was prepared to keep getting bashed until they learnt but the community used to scream "potato! go back to quickplay! UNINSTALL!!!" etc and so they did and now almost everyone in faction knows one another by build and tactic.
(i am only still here because as you all know i hate nascar and i am too f*n stoopud to know how to uninstall...)
it's fantastic that everyone is prepared to help in their own ways but it'd be helpfull too if nobody told noobs git gud or git lost.

*can we please have a random long tom event? drop it on both sides, regularly

The killer for "git gud" is that no where does it tell you how to "git gud" or where to go to "git gud". If you read forums and posts they could be completely wrong because of the evolution of the game. Maybe "git gud" classes....

[Gagis]

Hammer Hand, on 18 November 2020 - 07:16 PM, said:

The killer for "git gud" is that no where does it tell you how to "git gud" or where to go to "git gud". If you read forums and posts they could be completely wrong because of the evolution of the game. Maybe "git gud" classes....

True. This is extra bad because advise and claims about how the game works posted on the forums is inexcusably often misleading or outright false due to how active forum warriors never get moderated. Then it becomes false AND obsolete.

Joining a good unit and learning from unit mates is pretty much the best way.

[Edeljoker]

50 50, on 10 November 2020 - 10:08 PM, said:

.
Getting to the heart of why those players would sync drop instead of group and play FP would be good to address and I am sure there are a few reasons. Without really making note of what those reasons are we have no way to address them or find a solution.

FW Team 1: 8 FW Veterans, 2 Worldchampions and 2 FW Elite players

FW Team 2: 3 beginners, 4 FW Veterans and the rest consists of average nascar lrm heroes

Cannot understand, why team 2 doesnt love FW. Its such fun to wait for an eternity (often) and beeing slaughtered without the slightest chance to win afterwards. (and with domination its even better...people are never upset, when they wait long for something to start and then it ends quit suddenly) Really we should hire scientists to solve that mystery.

Edited by Edeljoker, 19 November 2020 - 07:29 AM.

[50 50]

Edeljoker, on 19 November 2020 - 07:21 AM, said:

FW Team 1: 8 FW Veterans, 2 Worldchampions and 2 FW Elite players

FW Team 2: 3 beginners, 4 FW Veterans and the rest consists of average nascar lrm heroes

Cannot understand, why team 2 doesnt love FW. Its such fun to wait for an eternity (often) and beeing slaughtered without the slightest chance to win afterwards. (and with domination its even better...people are never upset, when they wait long for something to start and then it ends quit suddenly) Really we should hire scientists to solve that mystery.

That happens in quick play as well.
However, you would hope that in quick play the match maker might be able to separate advanced players from beginners better with the tier system.

Faction Play has always been considered as the end game content and has the warning and so on.
There has been various ideas put up about 'gating' access so that you must meet certain requirements before you can even get into the mode.
I don't see why that has not been looked at more seriously as it is not an unusual idea or even uncommon in games.

While it might be nice to have more of a 'militia queue' as a solo only so it's a bit more random... which has also been raised before... we simply don't have the population to split players.
Personally I am not opposed to the idea of leaving quick play as the solo mode and make Faction Play groups only but there has to be some other concessions and features added to make that actually work.

Right at the moment I would bet that what we would see in FP is an empty queue that some players try and fill one team for. There are a number of other players, particularly those with more experience in and a preference for playing FP, that would be sitting around and keeping an eye on the queue in the hopes of a game and when they see a team start to build up would get all their friends and unit members together to jump into the queue just to play the mode.
Because there is no balancing between teams, no tier matching and we are forced into picking side A or side B invariably the scenario described occurs.

So part of the problem described is related to population.
We can also say that when there is a large difference in skill/experience between teams it can end in a very lopsided result.
A match maker problem.
Add to that the re-spawn mechanic where invariably the weaker/inexperienced team will end up being shot up in their drop zone.
A feature problem.
Add to that game modes that can end abruptly and sometimes only after a few minutes compared to the massive wait it might have taken just to get a bloody game.
A mission design problem.

And there are more.

So from your perspective (I have my own ideas on these points as I am sure many others would as well), what would be a couple of reasonable changes that might help that situation?

[50 50]

NAMEUNKOWN, on 11 November 2020 - 10:45 AM, said:

Does anybody here know
Wildhog of house steiner
Aylward of house davion
Metro of house liao

talk to them about planet capture . Ask them About ISW
back then we had everything trade routes,economy, it actually mattered if you capped a planet. we had what FP should be,
all coded by 1 guy.
unfortunately it fell on its face because that same coder just upped and dissapeared. and of course the player base was not a lot. and we had a lot of arguments just like here. that was about 2004 maybe 2006 . my point is it can be done

Pgi can do the same. do they want to no..

my feeling is just if some guy can do all that. then pgi can do too

Are you referring to this:
https://mwomercs.com...-season-up-now/

[50 50]

@Yondu
Do you think the way the drop decks are being used at the moment could be better?
Personally I thin that the drop decks and groups are two massively under developed features in the game and maybe could be changed a bit.

Consider this:
-Drop deck tonnage limit is up around the 260 ton mark.
-When scouting was first introduced we didn't have the separate scouting drop decks and instead position 1 in the deck was the scout mech.
-If drop decks were changed so they had to consists of L/M/H/A and a player took maximum tonnage in each class at 35/55/75/100 it's 265 tons anyway.

What if:
-Drop decks were restricted to needing a L/M/H/A
-The missions (Scouting, Siege, Conquest etc) had the actual tonnage limit.
-If a mech was destroyed in combat, it was not destroyed in the drop deck meaning you could re-drop in it again.
-Each time you dropped into combat in a mech, it took from your available tonnage for the mission.

Eg: A Siege mission might have a 265 ton mission limit.
Assuming I have got the maximum weight in each class, for that mission I could drop A/H/M/L.
Or. I could drop H/H/H/L
Or perhaps A/A/M
Or 7x L
Same for Scouting and say it had a 55 ton limit but we use this single drop deck and have the choice of dropping:
1x M at 55 tons, or perhaps we have a 25 ton light and drop 2x

There are a couple of reasons I'm thinking along these lines.
1. Flexibility
2. It should be easier for players to get a deck together.
3. Could change up some strategies and tactics.
4. Could lead to some functions that can dynamically change mission tonnage limit and not force players into rebuilding decks continuously. (ie. What if there was a condition that changed scouting to a 100 ton limit for one match.)

Wondering what your thoughts on a change like that would be. Potential issues, pros and cons etc.
All for the point of discussion.

Edited by 50 50, 19 November 2020 - 04:45 PM.

[Yondu Udonta]

@5050

While it would make things more flexible and to a certain extent make it easier for new players to have functional decks, if a 12-man spams 6 waves of assassins and 1 commando, or in general just spamming mechs that punch above their weight, I would say that would kill the mode pretty damn fast.

[Edeljoker]

50 50, on 19 November 2020 - 03:39 PM, said:

So from your perspective (I have my own ideas on these points as I am sure many others would as well), what would be a couple of reasonable changes that might help that situation?

I dont see a solution, sorry.

FW needs good units, with many activ members, otherwise we dont get the skill level, that would be needed in FW. Beginners would have to train in units for months, learn a lot about good builds and team tactics, to be at least an entertaining enemy, for the better preamdes in FW. But most pilots dont want to be in a unit it seems. Or they are too shy. I dont know. Maybe units should be more offensive in "hiring" new pilots.

It doesnt matter what pgi changes, with such an enormous skill gap, it will always be one sided. And one sided means no fun. Only the community could "balance" the drops: For example spread the better pilots over two sides. But the premades dont want that.

And a good matchmaker could do nothing, because the population is too low. I think FIRST we have to fix the population problem. WE NEED MORE PLAYERS. Then we can hope only, that many improve and become good enough for FW, or join units.

Edited by Edeljoker, 21 November 2020 - 04:08 AM.

[D A T A]

Conquest is 2000 tickets oryou will not even notice the difference.
Siege is not fine: group vs group it only turns out in massive firing lines guarding the narrow points. This is EXACTLY why fp failed.
Siege maps need the gates to be REMOVED entirely

[50 50]

Yondu Udonta, on 20 November 2020 - 06:21 AM, said:

@5050

While it would make things more flexible and to a certain extent make it easier for new players to have functional decks, if a 12-man spams 6 waves of assassins and 1 commando, or in general just spamming mechs that punch above their weight, I would say that would kill the mode pretty damn fast.

Point taken.
Mind you, can almost do that now and just have a drop deck of 4 assassins as it meets the minimum requirement.
Having them destroyed prevents the reuse of a single mech up to the maximum tonnage allowed however this could also be done by have a re-drop limit.
ie. Siege you get 4 re-drops, scouting gets 1, conquest gets 2 etc.
Would a re-drop limit for the missions solve that?

By adding flexibility it will remove some of the risk and potential variety from putting together and selecting the right drop deck.

Edeljoker, on 21 November 2020 - 04:02 AM, said:

I dont see a solution, sorry.

FW needs good units, with many activ members, otherwise we dont get the skill level, that would be needed in FW. Beginners would have to train in units for months, learn a lot about good builds and team tactics, to be at least an entertaining enemy, for the better preamdes in FW. But most pilots dont want to be in a unit it seems. Or they are too shy. I dont know. Maybe units should be more offensive in "hiring" new pilots.

It doesnt matter what pgi changes, with such an enormous skill gap, it will always be one sided. And one sided means no fun. Only the community could "balance" the drops: For example spread the better pilots over two sides. But the premades dont want that.

And a good matchmaker could do nothing, because the population is too low. I think FIRST we have to fix the population problem. WE NEED MORE PLAYERS. Then we can hope only, that many improve and become good enough for FW, or join units.

Becomes a bit of a circular problem doesn't it.

IF the quick play queue was reverted back to just being solo, I would support not adding back the second group queue for quick play and maintain faction play as a group mode primarily so we can try and consolidate the player base.

There are a lot of players out there who want to group and play with their friends but do not want to participate in faction play.
So a question might be how to make faction play appealing to that portion of the population?