12 replies to this topic

[Heavy Money]

On the subject of low hanging fruit to improve the game, could we diversify some of the current options? This could also serve as a way to increase the power of some of the under utilized mechs, or give more style to some of the more generic ones.

I don't know much about the lore or battletech background, so forgive me if this would violate that. But it seems like it would help the gameplay. I'm not suggesting that these options be made available to everything.

For example, would it hurt if the Shadowcat could take stealth armor? It'd lose its Ferro Fibrous, and its already undergunned. And if it would be too powerful of an option on it in general, there could be a variant with access to Stealth, but that isn't a pod mech, thus fixing its hard points into something less optimal to compensate.

And would it hurt if the Ebon Jaguar could take MASC? It'd give more of a reason to take it over a Sunspider or Timber Wolf. And given that MASC on a heavy weighs a couple tons, you'd be unable to run it and the current top builds for it. Seems like a fine tradeoff?

How about Jump Jets? (I realize that these are chassis based, so lore wise it might make no sense to have them available on more mechs. I don't know how this works in the lore. And it would also require graphical changes, which Stealth and MASC don't.)

There could also be room to get non-pod variants of the current pod mechs that have fixed hardpoints, but perhaps interesting quirks and unlocked engines. Just as a source for more variants to make.

Anyhow, i'm not experienced enough in the meta to say for sure what should be able to get these things without it causing problems, but if a balance pass is being done anyhow by people who do know, they could probably suggest the specifics. It just seems a shame to have these mechanics exist in the game but be very limited in what can use them.

[VonBruinwald]

Heavy Money, on 22 October 2020 - 11:56 AM, said:

On the subject of low hanging fruit to improve the game, could we diversify some of the current options? This could also serve as a way to increase the power of some of the under utilized mechs, or give more style to some of the more generic ones.

I don't know much about the lore or battletech background, so forgive me if this would violate that. But it seems like it would help the gameplay. I'm not suggesting that these options be made available to everything.

I'm all for expanding MASC availability; ECM (and stealth) to a lesser extent.

Unfortunately for you, the Shadowcat and Ebon wouldn't be able to use these. There are two types of mechs:

• Battlemechs - Their arms and torsos are in fixed configurations
  
• Omnimechs - You can switch out their arms and torsos with that of other configurations.

Battlemechs can install MASC and change armour types after purchase, but Omnimechs cannot. So unless they made a new Ebon with MASC in its base configuration you're out of luck.

Regarding Stealth-armour, that particular technology is exclusive to Inner Sphere mechs. The Shadowcat is a Clan Omnimech.

[VonBruinwald]

Heavy Money, on 22 October 2020 - 11:56 AM, said:

How about Jump Jets? (I realize that these are chassis based, so lore wise it might make no sense to have them available on more mechs. I don't know how this works in the lore. And it would also require graphical changes, which Stealth and MASC don't.)

There could also be room to get non-pod variants of the current pod mechs that have fixed hardpoints, but perhaps interesting quirks and unlocked engines. Just as a source for more variants to make.

Jumpjets can be added to all mechs. So there is scope for adding them to more mechs including omnimechs. But another trade-off with Omnimechs is you cannot remove the default jumpjets.

As for selling uniquely quirked pods independent of mechs, that's a pretty good idea. Unfortunately (as you've probably guessed by now), omnimechs have locked engines. And unlocking them would likely break the game.



Still waiting on Inner Sphere Omnimechs...

[General Solo]

Why not allow totally custom player built mechs
If the weight and critical slots allow , you can build it
ie 50 small pulse Dire Wolf......er....are their 50 free slots on a Dire Woilf...wot eva as many as we can fit, you get the jist.

[VonBruinwald]

OZHomerOZ, on 22 October 2020 - 01:08 PM, said:

Why not allow totally custom player built mechs
If the weight and critical slots allow , you can build it
ie 50 small pulse Dire Wolf......er....are their 50 free slots on a Dire Woilf...wot eva as many as we can fit, you get the jist.

You mean you don't already?

[Heavy Money]

VonBruinwald, on 22 October 2020 - 12:44 PM, said:

Unfortunately for you, the Shadowcat and Ebon wouldn't be able to use these. There are two types of mechs:

• Battlemechs - Their arms and torsos are in fixed configurations
  
• Omnimechs - You can switch out their arms and torsos with that of other configurations.

Battlemechs can install MASC and change armour types after purchase, but Omnimechs cannot. So unless they made a new Ebon with MASC in its base configuration you're out of luck.

I understand this is how it works now, but is this a restriction we have to keep in totality? We could let more mechs equip MASC and/or JumpJets without changing their ability to alter their armor or structure types (that would have only been necessary for Stealth, but if its IS exclusive, it should stay that way.)

[VonBruinwald]

Heavy Money, on 22 October 2020 - 02:06 PM, said:

I understand this is how it works now, but is this a restriction we have to keep in totality? We could let more mechs equip MASC and/or JumpJets without changing their ability to alter their armor or structure types (that would have only been necessary for Stealth, but if its IS exclusive, it should stay that way.)

Equipping additional jump-jets isn't particularly egregious and doesn't break lore. But you have to be careful it doesn't lead to excessive pop-tarting.

Equipping MASC is a different issue. If the MASC came as part of an omni-pod then it could work, the player would have a choice between picking pods with quirks, hardpoints or MASC. But allowing it to be arbitrarily equipped on Omnimechs leads to all sorts of problems down the line, if we're going to break lore here why not "fix" IS XL engines first (the outright superiority of cXL over the IS-XL/LFE is one of the biggest balance issues) and give the Inner Sphere mechs 10-slot LBX-20's/H.Gauss since they can't crit split. It's a slippery slope, tossing out one rule, you may as well toss out two, and pretty soon it won't be battletech.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 22 October 2020 - 02:48 PM.

[Heavy Money]

VonBruinwald, on 22 October 2020 - 02:48 PM, said:

Equipping additional jump-jets isn't particularly egregious and doesn't break lore. But you have to be careful it doesn't lead to excessive pop-tarting.

Equipping MASC is a different issue. If the MASC came as part of an omni-pod then it could work, the player would have a choice between picking pods with quirks, hardpoints or MASC. But allowing it to be arbitrarily equipped on Omnimechs leads to all sorts of problems down the line, if we're going to break lore here why not "fix" IS XL engines first (the outright superiority of cXL over the IS-XL/LFE is one of the biggest balance issues) and give the Inner Sphere mechs 10-slot LBX-20's/H.Gauss since they can't crit split. It's a slippery slope, tossing out one rule, you may as well toss out two, and pretty soon it won't be battletech.

That makes sense. Having a MASC locked into a center torso, or perhaps split between 2 omnipod legs of a new variant, could certainly work to add some variety.

An Ebon Jaguar with MASC and an unlocked engine would be a lot of fun too, even if it had fixed hardpoints and no omnipods. Hotrod that thing like a giant Black Lanner. (The Hellfire already pretty much does this, and those aren't dominating the meta, so it'd probably be okay if a couple other mechs could do similar.)

Edited by Heavy Money, 22 October 2020 - 02:53 PM.

[D A T A]

mask breaks the game: masc mechs stop registering the damage while they masc. it's a game engine problem, masc should be removed

[Heavy Money]

D A T A, on 22 October 2020 - 02:56 PM, said:

mask breaks the game: masc mechs stop registering the damage while they masc. it's a game engine problem, masc should be removed

That certainly hasn't been my experience while using MASC. But if it is the case, then surely the solution is to fix the bug, not remove the feature.

[Darian DelFord]

VonBruinwald, on 22 October 2020 - 01:12 PM, said:

You mean you don't already?

ROFL

I just realized after all of these years I am actually in this video.

[LordNothing]

masc yes, but there are a lot of ecm capable mechs out there.

[The6thMessenger]

VonBruinwald, on 22 October 2020 - 12:55 PM, said:

Still waiting on Inner Sphere Omnimechs...

Not until they fix IS XL to survive a torso blowout.

I don't want to be stuck in a BlackJack omnimech with a 1-torso kill while at 64 KPH.