339 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

If you want to buff Standard Engine, just put CT % Structure Quirk. Now there's a reason to pick it, when not using anything but HGRs and LB20Xs

Edited by The6thMessenger, 10 November 2020 - 12:53 AM.

[Mothykins]

Okay. So. I could hash this up between a bunch of diffrent places, but I'm just gonna dump this here and hope it has some meaning.

I'm on and off here, but having taken a loooong break I've come back to find a lot hasn't really changed.

The major issue from a game play perspective is that you have an awful lot of stale drops, especially in larger maps - Most modes encourage grouping up and those that don't still have some terrible point placement because of old complaints (Remember when Alpine used to have capture points that used the entire map? So you had to actually move?) Some maps, like Classic Forest Colony and Classic Frozen City have a very well thought out battle flow that has multiple pathing options - Due to the smaller size, they lend themselves to being pretty fixed with spawns, and this works great.

More egregious cases are things like Domination; I could and should like this mode. There is potential. But as it is, it's just "Skirmish, but exactly here" and it trains people to always go to that point. Maps like Forest Colony, Alpine, River City, Terra Therma should have variable placements for the objective as well as varied spawns - Possibly ones that will have forces meeting before the objective depending on the route taken, so that people have to choose to Stand and fight or go to the objective. Like a King of the Hill but it's a race to the objective, which is closer to the edge of the map then the center (The beach on Forest colony, for example, or an objective inside the old Terra Therma volcano. An easy suggestion would be Alpine Peaks, but the objective is in the top base in G11, or the lower valley in K5, with spawns being on the e5 and k11-ish areas - Fine tuning for actual travel time would be good, but it's two quick and loose options.)

Meanwhile Modes like Conquest should have much more scattered drops - it needs to encourage playing the Objective over just balling up and brawling - This is also a place where larger maps can shine. As it is, every match still turns into Skirmish. As well, possibly give two different control point layouts on larger maps.

Both of these will let you use existing maps to give more variety to the matches, giving a much more varied and less stale feel to each match.

On that note, I feel like incursion is... Well, lacking. It's called incursion, but it's really Assault+. It's often avoided, and I feel like It really needs to be looked at. There's not a lot of incentive to try and kill the base, as everyone just... you know, balls up and fights to the death.

As an aside and a spitball, a "Gauntlet" game-mode could also be interesting, if similar to Community Warfare. Have two or three possible "extraction points" and have it be the goal of one team to figure out which it is and stop the other team from getting there and holding the point with x% of their force for a certain time.

On the topic of community warfare, It might be a better option as a Limited Time Mode, have it roll out as the big thing for a week every month - Makes it feel special. Up the rewards for it, make it an event, make it a big deal when it comes around.

To sum this up;

• Change up spawn placement on larger maps to encourage more use of existing map space
  
• Spread out and have multiple control point layout and spawn points layouts for Domination and Conquest
  
• Explore drop placement that isn't directly opposing when dealing with Domination
  
• Incentivise playing the objective over just fighting to the death in non-Skirmish Game modes.
  
• Explore more asymmetrical game modes
  
• Change CW to LTM events, but give better rewards to encourage participation.

PS, Bring back Terra Therma Classic, I'd rather Mosh in the volcano then play Polar Highlands.

Also you can tell I'm old because I'm using Community Warfare over Faction Play...

Edited by Mothykins, 10 November 2020 - 12:59 AM.

[cougurt]

i don't think new content should be a high priority at the moment, unless it's coming alongside a number of much more needed improvements (i.e. skill tree, new player experience, matchmaking, balance changes, etc.). balance is of the greatest interest to me personally, namely re-evaluating a number of changes that were made around the time the skill tree and 3060 tech were introduced, as well as buffing underperforming mechs and weapons.

[Nochnoy Zador]

mr Katz
What is "rescale" means? Some details, please. New change-size algorithm or planned manually changes mech height with individual value?

Edited by Nochnoy Zador, 10 November 2020 - 12:53 AM.

[Hayek Lahiri]

Daeron Katz, on 10 November 2020 - 12:04 AM, said:

I added Advance the Timeline, and that includes everything that comes with that option. We're currently sitting at 3067 and up next is Jihad. Is that something people want? I haven't had a lot of request for that so far.

On the timeline, that can kinda wait for a bit. I would love it, but the game needs serious focus on NPE, balance, maps, and Skill Tree. The more low hanging stuff needs to be addressed so we can get old players back as well as new ones. The only tech advancement we should see for the time being is finishing up the FedCom Civil War era with stuff like IS omnis, X-Pulse, etc. Jihad is kind of a headache in terms of balance. We have a big enough plate to go through as is.

Edited by UndeadKingofPopMichaelJackson, 10 November 2020 - 01:07 AM.

[dr3dnought]

My thoughts in bold (priority in parentheses)

NEW PLAYER EXPERIENCE

• Change Starting Tier (to 4.5) Do it yesterday (1)
  
• Update Trial 'Mechs (regularly with appropriate consultation) Yes and give them a full [91pt] skill tree (1)
  
• Increase Cadet Bonus yes (1)
  
• Update In-game Tutorial yes (2)
  
• Establish New Player Video Tutorials (official and community) yes (2)
  
• MWO Discord Channel (update MW5 Discord to MWO/MW5) yes (2)
  
• Update Wiki / Add Wiki Contributors yes (2)

FEATURES

• Skill Tree / Grind Reduction Remove C-bill cost, halve XP cost, refund 45k cbills and 400gxp per node (1)
  
• Remove Torso Heat Spike Mechanic Do it yesterday (1)
  
• Heat Management Values Not Representative of Heat Efficiency meh, i'm used to it (3)
  
• Simplify Command Wheel i only use 'spotting' and 'help' so fine i guess (3)
  
• Remove Time of Day Change in Matches (FPS hit) never noticed it much tbh, but simple FPS improvement (1)
  
• UI Performance Pass / Scaling? If it improves FPS (1), if not (3)

MAPS

• New Community-Driven Map (Community input from start to finish) I have some doubts, please make it pretty (4)
  
• Update Unbalanced Maps sure (2)
  
• Spawn Point Fixes yes (1)

MECHS

• New Community-Driven 'Mech (Community input to new 'Mech chassis choice) sounds good (2)
  
• New 'Mech Variants yes (2)
  
• Rescale 'Mechs (for fun and role vs volumetric) scaling based on silhouette would make sense to me (2)
  
• Fix Mech Mobility (Desync) straight buff mobility rather than resync-to-engine-size (1)
  
• Update Bolt-Ons (Stay Attached) obviously (3)
  
• Quirks / Set of 8's for Under Performers yes with liberal use of HSL quirks (1)
  
• Armor Balance for Arm Weapon-Only 'Mechs (Jenner, Jagermech, Rifleman) Do it yesterday (1)
  
• Weapon Balance Pass Please consult the gulag (2)
  
• IS Omnimechs / Engine Discussion If IS omni then XL st-death needs to go (3)

MODES

• Review / Update Game Modes new modes would be good too (3)
  
• Solution for Faction Play i got nothing (3)
  
• Solution for Solaris Make it event-based. Add FFA [unranked/respawns?] (4)
  
• General Match Maker Improvements tonnage and PSR imbalances are an issue (1)
  
• 8v8 vs 12v12 8v8. If soup queue then solo/duo only (1)
  
• Solo / Group Queues Dedicated solo queue, with an opt-in to solo drop in group queue (1)
  
• Examine Match Scoring (AMS) i thought we just did this? sure (2)
  
• Remove 2 Minute Requirement for Reconnection sounds fine but very rare issue for me (4)
  
• Private Lobby Updates (More Options, Maps, Host Assignment, More Spectators) cool (4)
  
• Dailies/Weeklies yes, maybe even as part of a battle-pass [a la Warframe] (2)

SOCIAL

• Unit Recruitment Social Chat Tab good idea (3)
  
• Remove CBill Recruitment Cost for Units sure (4)
  
• Refer-a-Friend Program sure (3)
  
• Increased API Functionality ok (4)

NEW FEATURES

• Special Event Queue (Possible Faction Play/Solaris and 8v8/12v12 Solution) sounds fun (2)
  
• Advance the Timeline ok but first fix what we have already (3)

MONETIZATION

• New Player Packs absolutely (2)
  
• Starter Packs (Brawling, Long Range, Heavy) maybe packs of the best performing variants in each class (2)
  
• Themed Packs (Pop Culture, NASCAR) yes but please don't encourage NASCAR (2)
  
• New Items (Metallic Paints, Custom UI Colors, Voice Packs, Sound Packs, Laser Color Customization, MechLab Customization) all good (3)
  
• Improve Cockpit Item Bonuses (added value) make c-bill booster items available for MC (3)

Rework streaks [nerf vs lights, buff vs heavy+] (1)

[The6thMessenger]

Daeron Katz, on 09 November 2020 - 11:58 PM, said:

To get to a destination, you have to pick a direction. That's the stage we're in now. That list is a bunch of ingredients, and now we have the coming weeks to come up with a working recipe that works. Some things may have to happen further down the road. Some things may not work simply because after doing a technical review, we discover it can't for some reason. I'm not saying that's the case for anything at this point of course, or I wouldn't have it on the list. I'm just saying nothing is in stone yet, but we're moving forward.

My concern is it's easy to say anything, that "we have to do this and that". Acta Non Verba.



But the community isn't really interested of the promises, just the result. And having a vague list, that the devs apparently turn-180 on it isn't promising, especially when they have dozens of missteps on their belt. While I get that the list meant that it's what the devs are looking at, we were hoping it's what the devs already looked at. You know, development.

I'd like to have more hope, I really do.

But given the various things we have experienced: MW5 Tool Kit issue, the long lines of incompetency like that part where Artemis, prior to the LRM rework, does not really reduce the lock-on time with LOS, that they chose to bury. The Placeholder CACs just because they can't code Ammo-Switching for LBXs. The Rescale that was apparently just for the offending mechs, but changed everyone anyways, etc.

Making a list just brings expectation. Yeah PGI is looking at it, but we're just going to be disappointed if it's not going to make it in MWO anyways, so what's the point?

I just want something set in stone to have some faith in, not just some hyping the goes on forever, interest is dwindling especially whe MW5 is set to release on Steam which then I wouldn't have any reason to play MWO for a while -- and it is made worse that apparently lots of mods that I want to use won't be compatible and would need an update. So all in all, my december with PGI isn't promising.

I get it, you're working, and I appreciate it. But as of right now, the community is effectively on the same boat as with your first Monday update since it's not set in stone, to which I fail to see the point -- we basically just changed thread, but we're just giving suggestions like before. I'd like to be more inspired with your communication, but so far, it's basically meetings about scheduling more meetings, podcast about making more podcast, and planning about planning a plan. And my interest is dwindling.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 10 November 2020 - 02:36 AM.

[NAMEUNKOWN]

just as a after thought for when the player base is bigger.
in faction play.
lets get some pirate units . whos sole purpose is to steal pillage and plunder.

[BARRY SHlTPEAS]

The6thMessenger, on 10 November 2020 - 01:35 AM, said:

... But as of right now, the community is effectively on the same boat as with your first Monday update since it's not set in stone, to which I fail to see the point -- we basically just changed thread, but we're just giving suggestions like before. I'd like to be more inspired with your communication, but so far, it's basically meetings about scheduling more meetings, podcast about making more podcast. And my interest is dwindling...

This.

Edited by -Verti-, 10 November 2020 - 02:06 AM.

[Lepestok]

I am writing from Russia, using a google translator, so I apologize for my English.

I have two suggestions...

First: do battles in Solaris 7 on stock builds. This will give more meaning to divisions, especially for clan mechs. It will also be much more fun. Now players with meta builds are killing this mode.
Do this for at least one season. Just announce it with fanfare so players will notice this change.

Second: I am creating a video about MWO. Each time I feel more and more the limited tools for this. All I can do is record the fight from the cockpit or record a video in the testing ground.
In the «World of Tanks» game possible to record a battle into a text file (all the data that my computer receives during the battle is written there), and then play it back on the game engine. In this case, you can fly over the battlefield with a free camera and record video. If we do this in MWO, we can make great videos. And great videos will serve as an advertisement for the game.

[Seth Kalasa]

I remember the times when Solaris was really, really fun.
It was the time of Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries, when we had a good brawl with 14 mechs, all agains each other, no allies, just pure destruction until last man standing. That is what Solaris is supposed to be and that is what I expected! (and not only me I guess)...
Solaris should be integrated in Quick Play queue, it can be 4v4,1v1, 2v2, or Battle Royale with 8 or 12 players. Battle Royales are popular these days.

As per Faction Play- a lot of players have NBT experience in MW4 and that system worked! It had economy, factories, resources and meaning to play, feeling of satisfaction and progress. So the key to FP is something close to strategy-like gameplay.
The thing is that everything that works in this game is already invented. Not needed to think a lot and create new system from a scratch with a risk of no interest in it ( Like current FP and Solaris). Just make it back to the roots.

Stock mechs mode.
I recall the answer about this mode, that it will create one more “bucket” in queue what is risky with the current playersbase. But! If the playerbase will increase please consider about adding this mode, at least to quick play. I think you understood already that the main base of this game is hardcore fans and hardcore fans like hardcore gameplay. Why? Because it is hardcore!

Edited by Seth Kalasa, 10 November 2020 - 02:27 AM.

[Aivazovsky]

Daeron Katz, on 09 November 2020 - 09:27 PM, said:

Separating solo and group queue is definitely on the table! I think for it to happen though, other things might have to happen first, like for example moving Solaris and Faction Play to being event-based. This would put more players into the Quick Play queue, and potentially allow for a separated solo and group queues. I also think reducing matches to 8v8 could play a part in this. Added it to the list, let's talk about it!

"moving Faction Play to being event-based"...what do you mean? more details, please

[RRAMIREZ]

Nice synthesis work with this list.

Like many have already stated, I think Cadet PSR should be implemented ASAP and don't need 3 round table to be go for "first implementation" so that they don't face T1 (if vavle opening is limited to +-2 IIAC)


From this list, a nice "short term plan" can be established (and it doesn't mean the full list have to implemented)...
So let's talk.

But I hope there's a "mid term plan" to come ...
"Timeline advance" could be part of it... something that could be called MWO 2.

For instance, if 8v8 is driven on population issue, it would be (for me) a kind of implicit aknowledgement that population rising (and what should be do to achieve it) is not really forseen.

[rascje]

First of all, thanks again.
Then I would like to add just one thing: if any weapon balancing is ever requested, before wasting time on it, I think it is better to fix everything else!

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

InnerSphereNews, on 09 November 2020 - 08:48 PM, said:

Custom UI Colors, Laser Color Customization,

I think while these might seem as appealing monetisation options they shouldn't be for different reasons. Being able to change the UI colour should just be in the game as standard, a lot of games now let you customise the UI for preference/colour blindness and charging people for that is kind of scummy.

Changing laser colour is an odd one. Being able to see what colour laser is being fired gives you information of the enemy build before even locking them up, like seeing UAC pellets, and I think its a neat aspect that shouldn't be lost.

[Tomo3 14]

Hello there. Im in MWO from Feb 2013 and played a lot. Im mean really a lot - and as just mechwarrior in matchmaking ( 5000+ matches ), and as scout leader of unit "Varangian Guard of FRR" in many tournaments like RHOD. I remember a lot of changes - how streaks was nerfed, how LRM was several times buffed and super fast nerfed, how turrets on bases broke all strategic, how SRM changes make all close range fights with Centurions and Atlases fell before new jump meta, and then long range meta, and then uac + ppc meta, and then..... You get it.

What i want to say.

In-game Tutorial, Video Tutorials, Discord, wiki, new quirks, skill trees, rescales, new mechs.... Jesus Christ... All this "important" stuff will help game as much, as 3rd person view, which was so praise by Bullok...
IMHO, there is only 3 important way of growth - solo, group, balance.

For solo players most important is core gameplay - fix main perfomance problems, matchmaking calibration (full 12 vs randoms - one of the reasons I quit this game), so on. All know what problem has this game engine (damn, that freaky disappearing textures/models on far distances + creepy fps).
Groups need endgame mode. Factions Wars could be that thing, but its dont (too lazy to describe why). It shoud be game in game, because its should generate 2 things - opportunity for conflicts between units/clans and a reasons to go on these conflicts.
The idea of Factions War is good - its basic thing in Battletech universe, but how its implemented...
Units need to have planets or bases in their own, to fight for. And they need an opportunity to raid enemy bases/planets/territories - to earn c-bills. Its absolutely not an unreal thing to do, exept AI for base defend, when not enought players online + calculate prime time for every region for fights. Ofcourse its shoud be fights 8vs8 with mech loss, paid repair and many else wastes of c-bills to make units/clans be more interested in solo farm, good raids, base upgrades and other actions.
Balance is a hard thing, just because PGI desided not to make a paid repair. And because players just from the start have too unreal for this universe instruments of mechs changing. IMHO, after Clans introduction in MWO, any way of balance was combo of crutches + nerfs. Cost for failure is absolutely the easiest way to balance, but it will not work with broken economic like now (newbee dont have any c-bills, old dudes have billions + all mechs, and dont forget mc and premium time, I have 2k hours, "nice"). How fix all that? I dont know, maybe only full restart, with new mechanics, if community will agree (i would).
No quirks, no skill tree - f*****g crutches; yes, its popular, but take a look on any cool and hardcore cybersport game like cs,quake,sc - good basic mechanics and years of polish, thats all people need to play in game for decades.
And last, for great gods, get back lights mechs in game. I dont know who desided to make turrets for base defend, but he kill all point in light mechs (I was a scout leader so many years ago). Its ok to make 1-2 small turrets in matchmaking for randoms (just for not easy win with 1-2 lights), but in group fights its broke all strategic and movement + pushed all to long range meta, which changed to UAC/5 + PPC meta after some time (enemy cant capture our base, so we can stay where we want, hello ReX).

Hope it will help someone sometime to realize what is really this game needed. Does new mechs, new crutches like quirks, new modes and other knick-knackery add more online? As we all can see - no, only spikes of people, who waiting for some real changes and improvements.

[Yondu Udonta]

Daeron Katz, on 09 November 2020 - 09:27 PM, said:

Separating solo and group queue is definitely on the table! I think for it to happen though, other things might have to happen first, like for example moving Solaris and Faction Play to being event-based. This would put more players into the Quick Play queue, and potentially allow for a separated solo and group queues. I also think reducing matches to 8v8 could play a part in this. Added it to the list, let's talk about it!

If Faction Play being event-based means being restricted to only certain periods in the year, I will be strictly against it, and so will be the majority of Faction Play regulars. This will effectively kill off a mode that requires coordination, tactics and map knowledge, unlike Quick Play. The reason why people play Faction Play instead of Quick Play is because it is less braindead, where holding a position actually matters, rather than rotating endlessly in circles. If our idea of event-based is the same, it will not bring significantly more people to Quick Play, people would just quit the game.

[XX Sulla XX]

Daeron I think you have done a good job so far of getting community feedback and distilling it into an over all list. And again thanks for all the hard work on this.

I think the over all list looks good at first glance.

One idea I think might be there but not spelled out is changes over time to keep things from becoming stale. The idea is there is no perfect balance of weapons and mech quirks etc you are trying to reach. Because if you keep the meta/balance the same for a long period it makes the game/gameplay stale and boring. So you need well thought out changes over time to keep the meta/balance fresh. There are some articles/papers on this if I can remember where after I wake up more I will post them.

-----
One example of another game talking about his. More coming when I have time later today.

"But you don’t need to release a new hero to bring change to a game like Overwatch. You can tweak existing heroes, which in turn changes the meta, meaning which characters are considered strong or weak. Keeping the meta evolving can keep the game fresh, and Overwatch director Jeff Kaplan notes in a video released by Blizzard today (below) that the studio is committing itself to making more frequent balance changes."
https://venturebeat....equent-changes/

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 10 November 2020 - 04:03 AM.

[DeadWeight18]

Hello Daeron,

is it so difficult to keep an event queue in MWO so that we can look forward a bit. Like the Stocking Stuffer 2020 event could have been planned already, even when the challenges are not set yet.

[Mister Maf]

Broadly this is good and I'm glad to see this discussion but I MUST present my BIG YIKES​ at this:

InnerSphereNews, on 09 November 2020 - 08:48 PM, said:

Laser Color Customization

Standardized laser color is vital for telling what is going on in the heat of battle. There's a huge difference between a large laser and a medium laser. Color customization runs the risk of making it more difficult to tell what's going on in a game that is already packed dense with information.