23 replies to this topic

[The pessimistic optimist]

Kind nice to get some energy love and for IS to get pulse X up grade for it's lasers. It not post to be a new weapon but an upgrade to existing weapon. Could add it as an option for IS but the drawback of more a lot more heat for better range and little more DPS. Have it as an option like AREMIS

Edited by SirSmokes, 20 November 2020 - 12:20 AM.

[Handley Page]

But IS pulse are already good, why add a potential buff to them?

[The pessimistic optimist]

Handley Page, on 20 November 2020 - 05:48 AM, said:

But IS pulse are already good, why add a potential buff to them?

It should be like AREMIS that adds extra ton to already heavy IS missile launchers. If you upgrade to X pulse they get way hotter enough were you have to think do I really want this upgrade

Edited by SirSmokes, 20 November 2020 - 06:08 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Handley Page, on 20 November 2020 - 05:48 AM, said:

But IS pulse are already good, why add a potential buff to them?

X-Pulses trade heat for range. +50% heat for +50% range, that's a massive nerf to DPH/eDPS.

Whilst they would be interesting, they're fall into the same niche as the Binary Laser Cannon (+50% damage, +100% heat) and are only really useful on hardpoint starved mechs and assaults who can boat the sinks.

LAC 2/5's are the only other weapon really worth adding, they trade tonnage for range, which opens up a plethora of CC ballistic builds for the IS across all weight classes.

Other other weapons really worth adding are Enhanced/Extended/Streak LRMS , cRAC's and HAGs

If we were to get a new weapon pack this is how it should be done:

Weapon pack 1:

• Binary Laser Cannon,
  
• Clan RAC's
  
• Enhanced LRM
  
• Extended LRM
  
• Silver bullet Gauss
  
• X-Pulse Laser

These are all pretty straight forward XML edits and relatively easy to implement.

Weapon Pack 2:

• Bombast Laser
  
• HAG's
  
• HVAC's
  
• Plasma Rifle
  
• Plasma Cannon
  
• Streak LRM's
  
• Magshot/APGauss*

These are more complicated and need programming/testing/balancing. *Can probably get away with the Magshot/AP in pack 1.

[The pessimistic optimist]

VonBruinwald, on 20 November 2020 - 07:49 AM, said:

X-Pulses trade heat for range. +50% heat for +50% range, that's a massive nerf to DPH/eDPS.

Whilst they would be interesting, they're fall into the same niche as the Binary Laser Cannon (+50% damage, +100% heat) and are only really useful on hardpoint starved mechs and assaults who can boat the sinks.

LAC 2/5's are the only other weapon really worth adding, they trade tonnage for range, which opens up a plethora of CC ballistic builds for the IS across all weight classes.

Other other weapons really worth adding are Enhanced/Extended/Streak LRMS , cRAC's and HAGs

If we were to get a new weapon pack this is how it should be done:

Weapon pack 1:

• Binary Laser Cannon,
  
• Clan RAC's
  
• Enhanced LRM
  
• Extended LRM
  
• Silver bullet Gauss
  
• X-Pulse Laser

These are all pretty straight forward XML edits and relatively easy to implement.



Weapon Pack 2:

• Bombast Laser
  
• HAG's
  
• HVAC's
  
• Plasma Rifle
  
• Plasma Cannon
  
• Streak LRM's
  
• Magshot/APGauss*

These are more complicated and need programming/testing/balancing. *Can probably get away with the Magshot/AP in pack 1.

It would open up some build options for IS it wouldn't be like there IS better pulse laser LOL LOL LOL LOL there would be a trade off

Edited by SirSmokes, 20 November 2020 - 07:56 AM.

[Gagis]

X-Pulse and other future tech from Battletech is just same old gameplay but THE DIAL GOES UP TO ELEVEN. The rest of the BT timeline has nothing relevant to the to either MWO or the board game.

Some of the stuff we got from Civil War is already in that bracket of additions with no value as game design.

Edited by Gagis, 20 November 2020 - 08:01 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Gagis, on 20 November 2020 - 08:01 AM, said:

X-Pulse and other future tech from Battletech is just same old gameplay but THE DIAL GOES UP TO ELEVEN. The rest of the BT timeline has nothing relevant to the to either MWO or the board game.

Some of the stuff we got from Civil War is already in that bracket of additions with no value as game design.

Man having the pulse X upgrade option would just give IS some more build options why is that bad?

Edited by SirSmokes, 20 November 2020 - 08:02 AM.

[Handley Page]

VonBruinwald, on 20 November 2020 - 07:49 AM, said:

hey're fall into the same niche as the Binary Laser Cannon (+50% damage, +100% heat) and are only really useful on hardpoint starved mechs and assaults who can boat the sinks.

I think blazers would have a place as effectively an IS HLL.

SirSmokes, on 20 November 2020 - 08:02 AM, said:

Man having the pulse X upgrade option would just give IS some more build options why is that bad?

Effectively what X-pulse would do in balance terms is ask people "do you want to run cPulse or IS Pulse?" because X-pulse if added would probably be balanced similarly to Clan pulse and I can guarantee you people would go for the IS option everytime.

If someone running IS stuff wants a longer range energy build, they have normal lasers.

Edited by Handley Page, 20 November 2020 - 08:16 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Handley Page, on 20 November 2020 - 08:15 AM, said:

I think blazers would have a place as effectively an IS HLL.





Effectively what X-pulse would do in balance terms is ask people "do you want to run cPulse or IS Pulse?" because X-pulse if added would probably be balanced similarly to Clan pulse and I can guarantee you people would go for the IS option everytime.

If someone running IS stuff wants a longer range energy build, they have normal lasers.

If heat is high enough it will work out. They shouldn't be IS clan pulse they should have a drawn back of big heat if yea take pulse X upgrade

Edited by SirSmokes, 20 November 2020 - 08:18 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Handley Page, on 20 November 2020 - 08:15 AM, said:

I think blazers would have a place as effectively an IS HLL.

Only if you lack hardpoints, if you got the hardpoint an extra LL is a better option, I can almost guarantee you'll save the extra weight in heatsinks. I imagine GH is will have more of an influence in their usage than anything else.


I almost forgot, we need the RISC Hyper Laser.

• ERLL Range
  
• 20 damage
  
• 24 heat
  
• Explodes like a gauss rifle!

Now that's an IS Heavy laser!

Edited by VonBruinwald, 20 November 2020 - 08:25 AM.

[Handley Page]

SirSmokes, on 20 November 2020 - 08:17 AM, said:

If heat is high enough it will work out. They shouldn't be IS clan pulse they should have a drawn back of big heat if yea take pulse X upgrade

Then why ever run them over normal lasers? The heat penalty wouldn't be worth it for a better cycle rate.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Handley Page, on 20 November 2020 - 08:25 AM, said:

Then why ever run them over normal lasers? The heat penalty wouldn't be worth it for a better cycle rate.

They be for builds that only have a few laser hardpoints I would sure love too have two long range IS large pulse even if there hot with some IS AC 10s standards no less made some AC5 ect there wants IS could use that upgrade. Main thing is they would be too hot to boat

Edited by SirSmokes, 20 November 2020 - 08:40 AM.

[Handley Page]

SirSmokes, on 20 November 2020 - 08:30 AM, said:

They be for builds that only have a few laser hardpoints I would sure love too have two long range IS large pulse even if there hot with some IS AC 10s standards no less made some AC5 ect there wants IS could use that upgrade. Main thing is they would be too hot to boat

So either take an extra hot LPL with a bit more range, or a significantly cooler, lighter LL for a bit of a slower cycle rate.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Handley Page, on 20 November 2020 - 08:40 AM, said:

So either take an extra hot LPL with a bit more range, or a significantly cooler, lighter LL for a bit of a slower cycle rate.

Pulse X also post to have little bit better rate of fire so it should have little better DPS on it too as well as range it's just an option why don't you like options?

Edited by SirSmokes, 20 November 2020 - 08:47 AM.

[Gagis]

SirSmokes, on 20 November 2020 - 08:47 AM, said:

Pulse X also post to have little bit better rate of fire so it should have little better DPS on it too as well as range it's just an option why don't you like options?

Good game design involves scrapping redundancies in order to have a meaningful metagame of relevant options to choose from.

This has always been a weakness of Battletech's design with an abundance of obsolete and redundant options, but there's no need to make it worse. Most of the new tech introduced to Battletech has always been just same as the old one but with bigger numbers or otherwise of dubious value as an addition.

Good games are the ones where the variety is well justified and involves meaningful choices. That is HARD to make.

[VonBruinwald]

SirSmokes, on 20 November 2020 - 08:47 AM, said:

Pulse X also post to have little bit better rate of fire so it should have little better DPS on it too as well as range it's just an option why don't you like options?

You don't want to up the DPS, if anything you want to drop damage and increase cycle time maintaining the same dps.

Logically though this should be done with the standard pulse laser out of the two, it makes more sense for the X-pulse to have the higher damage/slower cycle. It take longer to charge and has more heat/damage/range as a result.

[The pessimistic optimist]

VonBruinwald, on 20 November 2020 - 08:53 AM, said:

You don't want to up the DPS, if anything you want to drop damage and increase cycle time maintaining the same dps.

Logically though this should be done with the standard pulse laser out of the two, it makes more sense for the X-pulse to have the higher damage/slower cycle. It take longer to charge and has more heat/damage/range as a result.

It would be nice to have option. IS pulse are very good but short range. It would be nice to have the option to take fewer for better range.

Edited by SirSmokes, 20 November 2020 - 08:59 AM.

[Handley Page]

SirSmokes, on 20 November 2020 - 08:58 AM, said:

It would be nice to have the option to take fewer for better range.

Just take normal lasers then. The benefits of the superior cycle rate of pulse wouldn't be felt with hotter x-pulse because you'd not be able to keep firing them as much.

[martian]

Handley Page, on 20 November 2020 - 09:50 AM, said:

Just take normal lasers then. The benefits of the superior cycle rate of pulse wouldn't be felt with hotter x-pulse because you'd not be able to keep firing them as much.

This exactly was the reason why I used X-Pulse lasers in MechWarrior 4 only rarely.

Although more powerful in theory, their practical use meant faster overheating of my 'Mech and thus those theoretical advantages of X-Pulse lasers were much less useful than it would seem.

[The pessimistic optimist]

martian, on 20 November 2020 - 10:12 AM, said:

This exactly was the reason why I used X-Pulse lasers in MechWarrior 4 only rarely.

Although more powerful in theory, their practical use meant faster overheating of my 'Mech and thus those theoretical advantages of X-Pulse lasers were much less useful than it would seem.

Like I said a build option. I it would be nice to have something with that short a burn time with better range for more heat. I can think of a number of ways that could be used but dose it have to be just flat better then every IS energy weapon?

Edited by SirSmokes, 20 November 2020 - 10:18 AM.