40 replies to this topic

[Omigir]

Well these are some very convincing arguments for rear mounted weapons. You have me sold, though as a light mech pilot i hate all of you. God forbid the day i come across a warhammer and it flips its arms at me x___X

But I guess the real and only remaining question is, how to do it smoothly, I would hate to be in a heavy and have to fumble around to get to the rear and and switch through groupings and have my chot missed becuase i could not swap fast enough.

Perhaps an option to have rear facing weapons groups become auto salected when you swich so 1'st group is always hot when your swap to your rear facing cam?

[Kristov Kerensky]

Omigir, that's how's worked in previous games, you switched to the rear view, those rear facing weapons become your 'active' set, no cycling through weapons and groupings to find them.

[Ghost]

I'd build a 25-ton light 'Mech with a rear-facing Remote Sensor Dispenser and a half ton of ammo. I'd call it the Rabbit. :V

[Scarlett Avignon]

I'd imagine that rear-mounted weapons really don't have much use other than to give lighter mechs second thoughts about trying to stay in your rear arc of fire. The real problem is, though, that unless PRI decides to implement a version of the 360 degree view in the BT canon (I could only dream), there isn't really an effective way to make use of them. How would I control them? A "rear view-cam?" Those are usually pretty impractical, tbh, unless you always have it in view, and are able to snap off shots as they become available.

Though, that gives me the idea that perhaps your sensors could detect when a target is near the firing arc of your rear weapons and maybe automatically pop up a rear-facing cam in the corner of your view so you can decide if you want to take the shot or not. Sort of a "smart" picture-in-picture.

The point is, though, that unless you have access to a 360 degree view, your attention will be focused to your forward view, and rear-facing weapons will have minimal effectiveness, sadly.

Edited by Franklen Avignon, 30 December 2011 - 11:17 AM.

[Conn Man]

In the pods you would flick the hatswitch on the joystick to rear view, lineup the crosshair and pull the trigger. In the time it takes to read this you could do that a dozen times.

Not sure how it would work with mouse/keyboard, but with a stick it's easy.

Rear mounted weapons are also good for drive-bye shooting. Streak in and unload on your target, then cover your own exit. You can re-engage without having to turn around. One or two medium lasers might not be devastating firepower, but if they can distract your opponent enough to prevent accurate return fire they would be worth it.

Edited by Conn Man, 30 December 2011 - 11:29 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Hit a button, you switch to rear view..hat switch on a joystick, on a throttle, button on your mouse(mine's got 11 buttons on it), or a key on the kb..it's easy, and you get used to doing it pretty quickly. At least I did in the various BTech video games in the past that allowed rear firing weapons. Biggest problem I ever had was the reversed directions

As for knowing when something's behind you..360 view isn't need for that, your 'radar' should indicate that..and if you can't tell something is tearing up your rear armor ANYWAY..well..360 view isn't going to help you.

[Omigir]

Funny thing, when i was young and reading the books, i would always imagin a HUD like a rear view mirrior. a strip of space along the top of thier view or a monitor that showed a wide arch of the back of hte mech. Due to the size of the monitor strip it didnt show very far or in grate detail, but it would give you a much clearer look then your sensors.

Some like that would help some one have an idea of when to 'snap too' and give them a better shot at getting the shot off they are wanting .. just maybe ...

[Scarlett Avignon]

Conn Man, on 30 December 2011 - 11:25 AM, said:

In the pods you would flick the hatswitch on the joystick to rear view, lineup the crosshair and pull the trigger. In the time it takes to read this you could do that a dozen times.

Not sure how it would work with mouse/keyboard, but with a stick it's easy.

Rear mounted weapons are also good for drive-bye shooting. Streak in and unload on your target, then cover your own exit. You can re-engage without having to turn around. One or two medium lasers might not be devastating firepower, but if they can distract your opponent enough to prevent accurate return fire they would be worth it.

Kristov Kerensky, on 30 December 2011 - 11:30 AM, said:

Hit a button, you switch to rear view..hat switch on a joystick, on a throttle, button on your mouse(mine's got 11 buttons on it), or a key on the kb..it's easy, and you get used to doing it pretty quickly. At least I did in the various BTech video games in the past that allowed rear firing weapons. Biggest problem I ever had was the reversed directions

As for knowing when something's behind you..360 view isn't need for that, your 'radar' should indicate that..and if you can't tell something is tearing up your rear armor ANYWAY..well..360 view isn't going to help you.

Again, it's a matter of situational awareness. Yeah, having it tied to a rear-facing camera that you activate with a flick of the hat-switch is fine, but during that time you go to the rear-view and are aiming, you aren't seeing forward. A 360 view fixes that.

Also (and this may be a seperate issue) turning your entire mech chassis to shoot a target behind you compromises your mech's armor. I think any rear-mounted weapons should be on swivel mounts so they can be used (to a degree) while keeping your mech's original facing.

[Kristov Kerensky]

The purpose of a rear mounted weapon is that you don't have to turn to fire on something directly behind you, they cover the rear flanks, same as forward mounted torso/head weapons cover the front flanks.

As for losing your forward view..rear mounted weapons are NOT your primary weapon systems, they are your 'OH ****!' weapon systems. Odds are you'll use them 1 in 5 drops, if that often and it'll really be affected by the size of your Mech. Smaller Mechs can turn faster, this isn't something you see as often on them, while the really big boys have to worry about this whenever those little bastiches are around.

[that1fail]

They would be useful on light mechs, like the Flea and such. But who would use a flea?

[Kristov Kerensky]

Buddy of mine in TT actually built a little 35 tonner with a rear facing PPC. He would run away from his targets, keeping them at long range with that PPC firing out his ***...FUNNY as hell, and pretty nasty to whoever was dumb enough to chase him.

[Scarlett Avignon]

Kristov Kerensky, on 30 December 2011 - 01:57 PM, said:

Buddy of mine in TT actually built a little 35 tonner with a rear facing PPC. He would run away from his targets, keeping them at long range with that PPC firing out his ***...FUNNY as hell, and pretty nasty to whoever was dumb enough to chase him.

Minmax, much?

[Kristov Kerensky]

Franklen Avignon, on 30 December 2011 - 02:03 PM, said:

Minmax, much?

Huh? It was just a variant on the Panther, SRM4 facing fore, moved the PPC to the torso and mounted it facing rear, funny to watch him use it, but really, only effective against other Light Mechs. Rear armor on a Light..against the guns of a Heavy or Assault, not a good career move ya know?

[Hayden]

Great for TT, for MW... meh. Could do without.

[Dragon Lady]

Speaking as a one who favors light mechs, and whose preferred strategy was to circle around a heavy 'Mech blasting at their rear while a lancemate kept their attention, all this contempt for rear-facing weapons does nothing but fill me with glee. Five points of damage may seem puny to most of you heavy drivers, but that has the potential of blowing one of my arms or legs off.

[Raeven]

For me, rear mounted weapons are a matter of the gamecontrols.

If your control setup inverts so that your 'Mech moves in correspondence to your joystick the same as when you are in forward view, I think you will see a lot more use from the stock variants with rear weapons.

It's when your controls are inverted and you have to adjust for left is right and right is left that they make using them so onorous that they get forgotten most of the time.

[UncleKulikov]

How would you aim it?

[Dlardrageth]

Another small issue apart from the controls (inverted or not) is the time factor. In a real-time game it just takes too friggin' long to reset HUD to rear view, switch to rear-fire controls, aim and fire. In the meantime your initial target has likely gone elsewhere. If you do have to switch over everything manually... unless you give the rear-mounted weapons some sort of autotarget, but meh...

[Hayden]

UncleKulikov, on 30 December 2011 - 07:42 PM, said:

How would you aim it?

"Rear-view mirror". Maybe have a "subscreen" on 'mechs with rear weapons that acts like the mirror on a car (but instead is a monitor with cross hairs).

[Kristov Kerensky]

UncleKulikov, on 30 December 2011 - 07:42 PM, said:

How would you aim it?

You hit a button to switch to a rear view, easy as that.

Dlardrageth, on 30 December 2011 - 07:55 PM, said:

Another small issue apart from the controls (inverted or not) is the time factor. In a real-time game it just takes too friggin' long to reset HUD to rear view, switch to rear-fire controls, aim and fire. In the meantime your initial target has likely gone elsewhere. If you do have to switch over everything manually... unless you give the rear-mounted weapons some sort of autotarget, but meh...

When you switch to the rear view, any rear mounted weapons automatically become your active weapon set. Add an optional keystroke if you have flippable arms to have them flip over and be added to the active rear weapon set.

I have no idea what you mean by it takes time to switch views, I've never had that problem, even in the old MW1/2 and GEnie MPBT it was instant switching.