19 replies to this topic

[Six-Pack]

During the Townhall Russ says that the decision to give C-Bills over free mechs was a deliberate one in order to provide the player a choice in the matter and avoid a situation in which he might roll a mech he doesn't enjoy playing.

Considering that the game has Free Trial Mechs(FTM) I completely agree.

The problem lies elsewhere - MWO has a very punishing economy that might melt your starting cash at lightning speed without providing much return. I adress this in the video here:

https://youtu.be/tQkVw4v1hBI?t=1681


On top of that there's a problem of FTM rotation. It is non-existent for all intents and purposes. I don't need a new bunch of mechs 4 months after I've started playing the game if I quit it 2 months ago.

Look at League of Legends. They rotate their free champions EVERY week.

Also they have a solid choice of cheap champions that you can buy for the in-game currency and spend months mastering them.

My suggestion: make Cadet Bonus give a couple of vouchers at different stages to buy an FTM of his choice for a big discount(~50%) or for free.

Upon purchasing the FTM it comes with the FTM build preinstalled and all of the mech XP accumulated by the player while playing it for free.

1. It is always exciting to get free(or nearly so) stuff.
2. It allows the player to keep the FTM they liked regardless of rotation.
3. It allows the player to experiment with the build.
4. It is a way to quickly boost mech collection for the new player without falling into the traps of punishing economy like purchasing wrong upgrades, weapons or engines.
5. it allows the new player to experience the Skill Tree with a good starting amount of XP instead of creeping by +1 SP point every battle or two making them more likely to purchase GXP in the future for their new mechs.

Edited by Six-Pack, 13 December 2020 - 07:49 AM.

[ThreeStooges]

Trial trash mechs use to let you get xp for that mech that you could use once you paid for the not trial version. In theory you could master the trial if you used it enough and instanlly master the mech once you bought it. One thing the npe has always needed was giving the player a mech to which they could refit they want. Half the game's fun is just messing with builds in mech lab then going to testing grounds to try them.

Now with the crappy skill tree you can't get the 'best' version of a build like you could under the old system. As for free stuff pgi gives out a lot of stuff especially in December. 28th they give you two hero mechs just for one match and half the mc needed for a med-asasult hero if you wait for half off sale.

Edit: after watching your video I see what you gripe about. you constantly change your mech's armor and structure. Don't. Simply choose a good build you like,do the upgrades needed to run it and quit changing the mech's structure and armor. As for engines on the IS side they are swap-able with the same engine rating a mech that uses a 260 can use any 260 engine. Buy one of each type over time and swap as needed. There are plenty of videos and web sites covering mwo's mech builds since the game is very lacking in how to do that.

Edited by ThreeStooges, 13 December 2020 - 08:11 AM.

[Horseman]

You're forgetting that most of the trial mechs are outdated garbage. They were designed for different weapon balance, quirks, mobility, even heat management than what is in the game now.

Edited by Horseman, 13 December 2020 - 09:04 AM.

[Swamp Ass MkII]

The trial mech do need to be rotated. Simply put.

[LordNothing]

the town hall shot down the free starter mechs idea, which i think was a mistake. they seemed to like pre-mastered trials though, which might help a bit. and they should rotate quarterly at least.

russ still sees that as product he can move. even though i recommended giving away older mechs that were most definitely sub-meta. things with mixed hardpoints where it would be impossible to encounter ghost heat. and since players tend to gravitate towards the boatier mechs, those would still be available for sale. some of them legacy mechs are in dire need of buffage.

Edited by LordNothing, 13 December 2020 - 04:31 PM.

[LordNothing]

ThreeStooges, on 13 December 2020 - 08:01 AM, said:

Trial trash mechs use to let you get xp for that mech that you could use once you paid for the not trial version. In theory you could master the trial if you used it enough and instanlly master the mech once you bought it. One thing the npe has always needed was giving the player a mech to which they could refit they want. Half the game's fun is just messing with builds in mech lab then going to testing grounds to try them.

interestingly this used to be the case in the rule of 3 days. i played trials to death (mostly because it was my first f2p and i didint know i could buy mechs with cbills, despite racking all the cadet bonuses). you kept any xp you earned on your trials, and could apply them to the same variant when you actually bought it. i had mastered several mechs having only played the trials.

[crazytimes]

When I started, I got a free Nova for some reason, and it was great. I probably would have kept playing without it, but it let me understand skill progression and the skill tree in a reasonably newbie friendly platform.

I don't get why they couldn't throw new players an IS and a clan medium freebie. Something like a Bushwacker and an Artic Wolf, nice middle of the road mechs that aren't going to wreck face, or put new players off the game by sticking them in lights or assaults.

Trial mechs are a waste of time to play. How a stock trial mech feels versus a modified, optimised and skilled up variant, is completely different.

[LordNothing]

i think scaling back from 8 to 4 free mechs, literally the first four mechs in the game, would still be better than the trial system as it introduces players to mech building earlier. your ability to craft good builds really dictates your placement. if you dont have the skills to use meta, you are going to see those builds as inferior and spend a lot of time running unmeta long after you acquire those skills.

Edited by LordNothing, 13 December 2020 - 06:55 PM.

[Elizander]

The problem with trial mechs are skill trees. PGI doesn't want to give them a default 50-60 point skill tree which is enough to get most mechs up and running. If PGI makes a template skill tree for trials (that's effective) and paste them on all the trials, then even newbies that make mistakes won't be in such a terrible position.

All any mech really needs is 17-20 points in Operations and 20-25 points in Firepower and it's pretty much good to go. Armor, sensors and consumables are nice, but those initial 40-50 points get the mech to a 'base' level of functionality.

[CFC Conky]

PGI has given us some pretty good mechs for free in the past, such as the Wolverine Quarantine, Roughneck Powerhouse, Sun Spider Vanguard and Corsair Broadside. Maybe they should just give new players some of those once they’ve completed their first 25 matches.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[LordNothing]

CFC Conky, on 14 December 2020 - 04:21 AM, said:

PGI has given us some pretty good mechs for free in the past, such as the Wolverine Quarantine, Roughneck Powerhouse, Sun Spider Vanguard and Corsair Broadside. Maybe they should just give new players some of those once they’ve completed their first 25 matches.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

yea but that was shot down in the town hall.

you just need to give them some normal, boring, mixed hardpoint, middle tier mechs, nothing fancy, no bonuses. russ doesnt want to give away anything they might buy. i think there are better ways to encourage initial buy in than to mech starve new players. like huge and i mean huge initial buy in bonuses, a huge pack containing things like grind reduction items, mc, mech bays, premium time, etc to anyone who buys their first mech pack or anything over $20 in value.

[Six-Pack]

Elizander, on 13 December 2020 - 08:56 PM, said:

The problem with trial mechs are skill trees. PGI doesn't want to give them a default 50-60 point skill tree which is enough to get most mechs up and running. If PGI makes a template skill tree for trials (that's effective) and paste them on all the trials, then even newbies that make mistakes won't be in such a terrible position.

All any mech really needs is 17-20 points in Operations and 20-25 points in Firepower and it's pretty much good to go. Armor, sensors and consumables are nice, but those initial 40-50 points get the mech to a 'base' level of functionality.

That is why I am for being able to purchase the Free Trial Mech with the XP that the player accumulated on them so they could invest them straight away.

[K O Z A K]

trial mechs need to be setup by players with a w/l ratio above 0.5

seriously why do most of them have completely garbage loadouts and ALL of them have terrible armour distribution, it's like they're intentionally trying to hurt new players

[Six-Pack]

Hazeclaw, on 18 December 2020 - 10:43 AM, said:

trial mechs need to be setup by players with a w/l ratio above 0.5

seriously why do most of them have completely garbage loadouts and ALL of them have terrible armour distribution, it's like they're intentionally trying to hurt new players

What are you talking about? Most of them a pretty meta. But yeah, there should be more of them!

[LordNothing]

meta is not always the best thing for new players. a lot of the meta mechs require advanced skills to operate effectively. trial builds need to be good for new players. that means cool running weapons with lots of heat sinks and where its impossible to trigger ghost heat. and if they are going to be pre-speced, they need to be speced for their loadouts and have lots of armor, sensor, and operations nodes as well.

Edited by LordNothing, 19 December 2020 - 05:39 PM.

[Horseman]

Six-Pack, on 18 December 2020 - 11:02 AM, said:

What are you talking about? Most of them a pretty meta.

Most of them date back before MASSIVE quirk chances and Civil War tech (which is especially relevant to IS mechs, as most of the STD builds could benefit from LFEs. Similarly a lot of the AC builds would benefit from UACs. or
Trial WHK, ACH, MLX, VND, CN9, TBR, GRF, KTO, SHD, DRG, QKD, TDR, CTF, EBJ, VTR, STK, HGN, MAL, AS7, DWF. TBT misses a third of firepower. CPLT is a bracket build. JM6 plain lacks firepower (you can do that build with a brace of medium lasers on a WHM). Trial UZL, BSW, ASN, OSR, RGH, MDD are garbage for the mode they are used for (Solaris)

If you genuinely believe these are "meta" in any shape or form, then you're seriously out of touch.

LordNothing, on 19 December 2020 - 05:37 PM, said:

meta is not always the best thing for new players. a lot of the meta mechs require advanced skills to operate effectively. trial builds need to be good for new players. that means cool running weapons with lots of heat sinks and where its impossible to trigger ghost heat. and if they are going to be pre-speced, they need to be speced for their loadouts and have lots of armor, sensor, and operations nodes as well.

Agreed, but those mechs and builds also need to be reasonably capable. You don't want to gimp newbies even further by giving them inadequate trial mechs, after all.

Edited by Horseman, 23 December 2020 - 09:22 AM.

[LordNothing]

Horseman, on 23 December 2020 - 09:21 AM, said:

Agreed, but those mechs and builds also need to be reasonably capable. You don't want to gimp newbies even further by giving them inadequate trial mechs, after all.

there are lots of heat neutral builds that are effective on a firing line. you dont want nova prime syndrom though, where new players buy a new mech and the first thing they do is cook themselves to death for a weapons test at the beginning of a match. like 4 or 5 medium pulse lasers and an lb-10 with an appropriate number of dhs is a pretty formidable loadout for a heavy, it will never trip ghost heat and it can run cool enough to do a couple alphas before becoming a problem. its also a 2 group mech, so its easy. it wont face tank a meta hellbringer in the hands of a skilled pilot or bring down a dual hgauss fafnir solo, but thats not really something a new player should be expected to do.

Edited by LordNothing, 23 December 2020 - 09:57 AM.

[Horseman]

Also: All Trial builds with 10+ back armor. 10 is plenty, and yet I see a number of them do as high as 16. That's at least 6 pts of front armor that the newbie WILL be missing

LordNothing, on 23 December 2020 - 09:56 AM, said:

there are lots of heat neutral builds that are effective on a firing line.

You want builds that avoid GH, yes, but not heat-neutral.
Heat-neutral amounts to paranoid fear of a resource you should be using to your advantage. That way lies the Gauss Jager and it's crap.

Edited by Horseman, 23 December 2020 - 12:43 PM.

[Big Killy Wazza]

Trial ‘Mechs are for newbies starting out as they are always champion mechs. This means that they have an easier time grinding c-bills so they can get more mechs. It also helps them see what suits them best.

[Big Killy Wazza]

Horseman, on 23 December 2020 - 12:43 PM, said:

That way lies the Gauss Jager and it's crap.

This is true. No one should use that trial ‘Mech...

Especially new players who have no idea on how gauss works.