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Why Nobody Plays Solaris


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#41 Horseman

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 04:05 AM

View PostMT Slayer, on 16 February 2021 - 09:29 AM, said:

Divisions should be handled by weight class to start with no lights against assaults' ever
Depending on which light, which assault and which map we're talking, it may be the assault that's at the disadvantage.

View PostLordNothing, on 16 February 2021 - 09:06 PM, said:

i think a four division solaris would be better. possibly a 5th unlimited division, though i could live without it.
Except then you end up with even fewer chassis being viable than there are right now.

View PostWildstreak, on 23 February 2021 - 05:48 PM, said:

- Divisions are clunky, no description of what they are you have to guess by going through things to see what Mech of yours is in what division.
https://mwomercs.com/s7-mech-divisions

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- Some choices as to which Mech is where make no sense. Mechs of the same type in the middle of a Weight Class are spread between 2-4 Divisions.
Because weight does not directly translate to performance.

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- Mismatches between Mechs. I could understand something like Cicadas and other low end Mediums in the same group with high end Lights like Wolfhounds but Hunchbacks of both types and other Mediums in the same group with Assaults, what?
The performance spread within a weight category is much wider than you expect, that is why.

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With Solaris showing this tool is possible, makes you wonder why it does not exist in some form for QP and FW.
Probably because of the abuse potential. Someone could spectate and feed intel to players on one side of the match. It does exist for private lobbies, but that's only for referees.

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Maps
Steiner Coliseum, What is with the Stone Cubes that serve no purpose? Those sheds? Either they blow up or why are they there too?
Cover for ground-level fights. Learn to use it to limit the enemy's firing lines.
Boreal Reach, no need for illusion of open areas at one end. More Cubes now of Ice. Long Range possible but limited due to oval size of map.

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Problem is the Long range really is limited so may as well skip that and no LRMs.
Check the division leaderboards for AC2/RAC2 spam builds. You'll find a few in Div 1 and Div 2.

View PostWildstreak, on 25 February 2021 - 05:24 PM, said:

Sorry but if quirks are justifying these Division Mech choices, this only adds another piece of proof quirks are not done right.
The performance of each chassis' meta build is what dictated its' movement up and down divisions. Quirks alone do not dictate the division, but combination of quirks and hardpoints may.

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I have spectated several S7 matches, the ones on Steiner Coliseum no one uses a cube, always one person goes high on a platform, the other moves straight toward him. Only other map I see matches happen on is Factory.
Odd, seeing how Liao Jungle is the most common map in my experience. And no, that approach isn't the default on Steiner, especially not when both combatants are in shorter-ranged builds.

#42 Classified69

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 07:52 PM

i stopped playing it because i cannot choose the mechs i desire from my mech bay for some reason.

#43 Meep Meep

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 10:57 PM

I never played it or faction because the waits are too long and the gameplay too niche. I just want to hop in a mech and have some fun with a bunch of other players on big maps. Think of all the goodness that could have been done if they had used all that dev time and money to make new maps and refine the game. Posted Image

#44 Horseman

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Posted 01 March 2021 - 01:28 PM

View PostClassified69, on 28 February 2021 - 07:52 PM, said:

i stopped playing it because i cannot choose the mechs i desire from my mech bay for some reason.
Variants are locked to specific divisions. Make sure you're choosing the right division.

#45 Rosarius

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 05:01 AM

View PostWildstreak, on 25 February 2021 - 05:24 PM, said:

Sorry but if quirks are justifying these Division Mech choices, this only adds another piece of proof quirks are not done right.


Not going to totally disagree RE: quirks, but you picked one word out of the entire sentence. Quirks AND weapon mounts. Even if quirks were completely disabled there would be strong variants and weak variants of the same mech which is why these mechs need to be spread out across divisions.

View PostWildstreak, on 25 February 2021 - 05:24 PM, said:

I have spectated several S7 matches, the ones on Steiner Coliseum no one uses a cube, always one person goes high on a platform, the other moves straight toward him. Only other map I see matches happen on is Factory.


I've used them and have spectated many a match where they were used. Most notably a NARC / LRM arctic wolf that used them as cover as it lurmed an annihilator to bits. To be fair though, Steiner is way too open for my playstyle, so it's usually the second on my ban list (after Boreal)

#46 Wildstreak

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 06:06 AM

View PostRosarius, on 03 March 2021 - 05:01 AM, said:


Not going to totally disagree RE: quirks, but you picked one word out of the entire sentence. Quirks AND weapon mounts. Even if quirks were completely disabled there would be strong variants and weak variants of the same mech which is why these mechs need to be spread out across divisions.

Actually no because I see no way for weapon mounts to be a big deal. Not much ridge peeking and if you try, a smart opponent can force a FtF confrontation eliminating that. Maybe some corner poking but again not much so mount locations are not that important.

View PostMeep Meep, on 28 February 2021 - 10:57 PM, said:

to make new maps

Except these just become treated as, "Oh look same tactics with different colors to the terrain," thus not really new.

#47 Omniseed

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Posted 05 March 2021 - 12:27 PM

They could keep the divisions but randomize which one you drop into, or if only two pilots are in queue, each in different divisions, the matchmaker could just put them in the division of the first one in queue.

Or the division could be a voting choice

#48 Wildstreak

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Posted 07 March 2021 - 04:42 AM

View PostMetalgod69, on 07 March 2021 - 01:03 AM, said:

Since i dont make errors and the fault lies always by my team members, this mode is natural no for me.

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image
When I played Smite, I tried once to tell people who seriously believed this to try Duel 1 v 1 mode but it remains one of the least played modes partly due to how many refuse to accept certain things and for other reasons.
Still it does not change that here S7 is done incorrectly, either they should fix it to what it should be or scrap it.

#49 Horseman

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Posted 07 March 2021 - 05:05 AM

View PostWildstreak, on 03 March 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:

Actually no because I see no way for weapon mounts to be a big deal.
They're a big deal for players with the aim and reaction speed to leverage them for an early advantage in the match. If you open up an opponent early or take away some of their weapons before they can do the same to you, you've forced them to fight the rest of the match at a disadvantage and way more defensively than otherwise.

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Not much ridge peeking (...) Maybe some corner poking but again not much so mount locations are not that important.
Ridge poking is common with BLRs and Chargers in div 4. Both ridge and corner poking is common in ballistic duels in div 1 and 2.

Edited by Horseman, 07 March 2021 - 05:07 AM.


#50 Rosarius

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Posted 12 March 2021 - 09:48 PM

View PostWildstreak, on 03 March 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:

Actually no because I see no way for weapon mounts to be a big deal. Not much ridge peeking and if you try, a smart opponent can force a FtF confrontation eliminating that. Maybe some corner poking but again not much so mount locations are not that important.


Really? So a SHD or BSW with only one ballistic hardpoint is an equal to one with two or more? A TBT that can take a JJ to add that extra level of mobility is an equal to a TBT that can not? An ANH that lacks the mobility to effectively bring missiles into range is an equal to an ANH that doesn't need to be mobile because it can boat (relatively) longer range ballistics?

Not all variants are created equal, that's why some are spread out across divisions

#51 Wildstreak

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Posted 16 March 2021 - 08:31 AM

View PostHorseman, on 07 March 2021 - 05:05 AM, said:



View PostRosarius, on 12 March 2021 - 09:48 PM, said:



And you both miss that by having Divisions, PGI has screwed themselves.

What if they want to include a third mode such as say 8 v 8 and make that the true Tier mode instead of QP?

Wait they cannot since Mechs are spread across Divisions thus preventing some Mechs from being put on the same team.

Divisions is not done with the characters of other competitive games and modes even though those characters are not rated equally. Divisions also makes too much extra work for companies to have to move characters around if and when changes are made.

#52 Horseman

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Posted 16 March 2021 - 03:53 PM

View PostWildstreak, on 16 March 2021 - 08:31 AM, said:

Divisions is not done with the characters of other competitive games and modes even though those characters are not rated equally.
Count how many "characters" those games have. MWO has 619 chassis variants (not counting Champions and Specials).
Unless you want less than one percent of that to be viable in the mode, the division system is necessary.

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Divisions also makes too much extra work for companies to have to move characters around if and when changes are made.
Not at all.

#53 Rosarius

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Posted 18 March 2021 - 04:29 AM

View PostWildstreak, on 16 March 2021 - 08:31 AM, said:


What if they want to include a third mode such as say 8 v 8 and make that the true Tier mode instead of QP?



If PGI wanted 8 v 8 they would have kept 8 v 8! They had it for TWO WHOLE FREAKING WEEKS! Then along came the soup queue that we all know and... have feelings for...

#54 Wildstreak

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Posted 19 March 2021 - 09:19 AM

View PostHorseman, on 16 March 2021 - 03:53 PM, said:

Count how many "characters" those games have. MWO has 619 chassis variants (not counting Champions and Specials).
Unless you want less than one percent of that to be viable in the mode, the division system is necessary.
Not at all.

LOL, characters would not be so inviable if they were balanced right.
There is a difference in balancing characters for team play vs solo play.
You need to learn.

View PostRosarius, on 18 March 2021 - 04:29 AM, said:


If PGI wanted 8 v 8 they would have kept 8 v 8! They had it for TWO WHOLE FREAKING WEEKS! Then along came the soup queue that we all know and... have feelings for...

Soup Queue has nothing to do with this, stop wasting time on that it goes nowhere.
8 v 8 is what PGI supports at the year end event for the Pro-type players thus it is considered the Comp Scene similar to how a lot of other games do 5 v 5 for their shooters or MOBAs.
They should have thus made 8 v 8 a mode for Solaris.
This does NOT mean they need to change Quick Play for that.

#55 Horseman

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Posted 19 March 2021 - 01:13 PM

View PostWildstreak, on 19 March 2021 - 09:19 AM, said:

LOL, characters would not be so inviable if they were balanced right.
There is a difference in balancing characters for team play vs solo play.
You need to learn.
Please determine the correct methodology to balance 619 characters, then, and share your conclusions with the class.

#56 Wildstreak

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Posted 20 March 2021 - 09:01 AM

View PostHorseman, on 19 March 2021 - 01:13 PM, said:

Please determine the correct methodology to balance 619 characters, then, and share your conclusions with the class.

To someone who is civil, sure.
To people like you, no you can join the other 4 Fumiya Tomozakis seen in recent weeks.

#57 Horseman

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Posted 20 March 2021 - 03:36 PM

One, I've been nothing but civil to you in this thread.
Two, being civil is not an obligation to agree with anything you say.
Three, you've managed to miss my point: there are far too many chassis for balancing every one of them "right" against all other possible opponents to be a realistic goal for anyone, let alone developers whose understanding of the gameplay balance and the resulting metagame is lacking at best.

#58 Rosarius

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Posted 20 March 2021 - 05:35 PM

View PostWildstreak, on 20 March 2021 - 09:01 AM, said:

To someone who is civil, sure.
To people like you, no you can join the other 4 Fumiya Tomozakis seen in recent weeks.


Posted Image

#59 Alexandros

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Posted 20 March 2021 - 06:41 PM

A great idea would be to make solaris 7 an arena for Unit vs Unit (Lance vs Lance) with combat prizes and a scoreboard of wins that would give a nice prize at the end of each season. WITH NO RESTRICTIONS ON MECHS. Simple and fun since we cant have the 12 free for all. Perhaps it will have a meaning having units afterall. So the scoreboard will be based on wins/losses and kills/assists/dmg taken for each individual.


And to spice up the challedge : Score is multiplied the lighter the mech you have.

Edited by Alexandros, 20 March 2021 - 06:47 PM.


#60 Gilgamecc

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Posted 22 March 2021 - 09:43 AM

View PostBTGbullseye, on 30 December 2020 - 08:47 PM, said:

That isn't why I don't play... I don't play because it's either run the exactly perfect meta for the mode and division, or you have a 0% chance of winning versus someone who is. (and you're always going to be pitted against them)

Also, the only people playing Solaris 7 anymore are the people that run those mechs and builds exclusively, and are all too happy to grief-kill anyone they get matched with.



or else you have to put up with some squirrel in a higher division who pecks at you for the entire ten minutes and makes you want to put your hands on whoever thought it was funny to split by 'power' but not separate weight brackets in any other way





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